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Thread: Rand Will Vote Against Nuclear Deal

  1. #1

    Default Rand Will Vote Against Nuclear Deal

    From Rand's fb page

    The proposed agreement with Iran is unacceptable for the following reasons:
    1) sanctions relief precedes evidence of compliance
    2) Iran is left with significant nuclear capacity
    3) it lifts the ban on selling advanced weapons to Iran
    I will, therefore, vote against the agreement.
    While I continue to believe that negotiations are preferable to war, I would prefer to keep the interim agreement in place instead of accepting a bad deal. Please help share this news.
    Last edited by T.hill; 07-14-2015 at 02:52 PM.



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  3. #2

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    Cool Rand... you look like a real tough guy now. What a flip-flop from 2007 and a disappointment.

  4. #3

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    Israel lobby much? We need a liberty minded candidate with some backbone. This is so disappointing. I don't want to hear the excuses that he needs to win the Republican vote. This is about aggression, just war theory and morality. Rand is playing politics to the point that his presidency will barely move the meter if he panders this much in office.
    The Voluntary Exchange Podcast

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    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain"

    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

    "The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft"

    "My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

  5. #4

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    Disappointed, but sadly not surprised.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chieppa1 View Post
    Israel lobby much?

    He is officially beholden.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by mit26chell View Post
    He is officially beholden.
    I know the political move is that the deal with pass without his "yes" vote, but principal is what inspires people. His campaign is not inspiring. All he is doing is collecting baggage he will have to deal with if he ever got to office.
    The Voluntary Exchange Podcast

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    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain"

    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

    "The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft"

    "My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chieppa1 View Post
    I know the political move is that the deal with pass without his "yes" vote, but principal is what inspires people. His campaign is not inspiring. All he is doing is collecting baggage he will have to deal with if he ever got to office.
    No GOP campaign is inspiring,what did you expect?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chieppa1 View Post
    I know the political move is that the deal with pass without his "yes" vote, but principal is what inspires people. His campaign is not inspiring. All he is doing is collecting baggage he will have to deal with if he ever got to office.
    You really think ⅔ of the Senate is going to vote for this?

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilf View Post
    No GOP campaign is inspiring,what did you expect?
    Agree, but having a constitutionalist / libertarian in the White House would be.
    Rand Paul 2016 for Peace

  11. #10

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    He is certainly trying to differentiate himself from Ron. Very disappointed but can't say that its surprising.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by LatinsforPaul View Post
    Agree, but having a constitutionalist / libertarian in the White House would be.
    Yup

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    You really think ⅔ of the Senate is going to vote for this?
    It will pass. Obama will veto any objection.
    The Voluntary Exchange Podcast

    Twitter

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain"

    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

    "The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft"

    "My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

  14. #13

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    Well, Ron supported Israel's right to bomb Iraq's nuclear facility back in 1982ish and this likely kept the Iraqi military from having hardcore weaponry in the US's former bouts w/ them during the last twenty some years. One could argue that no deal will force or allow Israel to decide whether it wants to take action again in this instance w/o us getting involved any further. I suspect that in foreign policy votes like this where Rubio and Paul vote on the same side, it's for very different reasons. I'd keep that in mind.

  15. #14

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    So wait, this was apparently a lose-lose scenario, regardless of how he voted, yet there's still disappointment?

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.NoSmile View Post
    So wait, this was apparently a lose-lose scenario, regardless of how he voted, yet there's still disappointment?
    There is no pleasing certain folks, it goes against their nature.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.NoSmile View Post
    So wait, this was apparently a lose-lose scenario, regardless of how he voted, yet there's still disappointment?
    If he voted for the deal, it would signal to me that he gives a crap about morality and the idea of just war. But in a campaign, political sense; yeah I guess this is a lose-lose.

    How far the expectations have fallen.
    The Voluntary Exchange Podcast

    Twitter

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain"

    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

    "The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft"

    "My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

  18. #17

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    deleted
    Last edited by wizardwatson; 07-16-2015 at 06:59 AM.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.hill View Post
    From Rand's fb page

    The proposed agreement with Iran is unacceptable for the following reasons:
    1) sanctions relief precedes evidence of compliance
    2) Iran is left with significant nuclear capacity
    3) it lifts the ban on selling advanced weapons to Iran
    I will, therefore, vote against the agreement.
    While I continue to believe that negotiations are preferable to war, I would prefer to keep the interim agreement in place instead of accepting a bad deal. Please help share this news.
    Rand adopted the position of the Bill Kristol, his neocons and Israel.

    Why is Rand so intent upon intervening in Iran's national security decisions?

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    Rand adopted the position of the Bill Kristol, his neocons and Israel.

    Why is Rand so intent upon intervening in Iran's national security decisions?
    Because the grumpy, fear-driven, racist FOX News crowd is intent on intervening in Iran's national security decisions. But Rand Paul also wants to be the candidate of the hip, young crowd that really loves warmongering against Iran. Oh wait.
    The Voluntary Exchange Podcast

    Twitter

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain"

    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

    "The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft"

    "My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.NoSmile View Post
    So wait, this was apparently a lose-lose scenario, regardless of how he voted, yet there's still disappointment?
    I trust that Randal thinks that the current situation is better than the situation this deal would create.

    1) sanctions relief precedes evidence of compliance
    I might suggest that some want it this way so that when they don't "comply" they can say Iran has broken the deal and push for actual war.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    Rand adopted the position of the Bill Kristol, his neocons and Israel.

    Incorrect. This is not Bill Kristol and the Neocons position...

    "I continue to believe that negotiations are preferable to war" Rand Paul
    Rand Paul 2016 for Peace

  23. #22

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    I'm not surprised but it just further proves that Rand Paul is spineless. Unlike his father he is a pandering weakling. There is almost no excuse for a libertarian to oppose a reasonable and realistic deal which can avert war.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.NoSmile View Post
    So wait, this was apparently a lose-lose scenario, regardless of how he voted, yet there's still disappointment?
    What are you talking about? Every single point in the OP is offensive. How could you expect anyone here not to be disappointed?

    Granted, it's not surprising. But there's no upside to this.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by LatinsforPaul View Post
    Incorrect. This is not Bill Kristol and the Neocons position...

    "I continue to believe that negotiations are preferable to war" Rand Paul
    If he believed that and acted accordingly, then he would vote to end sanctions. He just told us he won't vote to end sanctions.

  26. #25

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chieppa1 View Post
    If he voted for the deal, it would signal to me that he gives a crap about morality and the idea of just war. But in a campaign, political sense; yeah I guess this is a lose-lose.

    How far the expectations have fallen.
    What exactly is moral about telling Iran that we'll steal their money unless they do exactly what they tell us to do? I understand that Rand didn't give a libertarian reason for opposing the deal, but there certainly are libertarian reasons for opposing the deal.

  28. #27

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    The excuses for Rand are annoying and worse, they are a waste of time. His campaign strategy is failing. He is not going to pull the votes we all believe because he can't pick a message. He stands for nothing. He stands for whatever stance will make the least enemies. Of course in this cause, he is deciding it is better for him to have less enemies in Washington D.C., than Americans to have less enemies aboard.
    The Voluntary Exchange Podcast

    Twitter

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain"

    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

    "The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft"

    "My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

  29. #28

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    This is too bad. I'll still vote for rand as the least bad candidate but his sticker is coming off my car and he won't be receiving any future contributions from me.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    Rand adopted the position of the Bill Kristol, his neocons and Israel.

    Why is Rand so intent upon intervening in Iran's national security decisions?
    This deal interferes in Iran's national security decisions. The deal is all about intervention.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    What exactly is moral about telling Iran that we'll steal their money unless they do exactly what they tell us to do? I understand that Rand didn't give a libertarian reason for opposing the deal, but there certainly are libertarian reasons for opposing the deal.
    We already stole their money. Half a trillion dollars. And the actual innocent human beings living under the government of the State of Iran can't buy $#@! because of our sanctions. Lift the sanctions. Vote to lift the sanctions. He will not. His politics and how the overall deal will effect the Government of United States is more important than actual human beings living in a country surrounded by United States military bases.
    The Voluntary Exchange Podcast

    Twitter

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain"

    "I want to be President, not because I want to run your lives. I don't want to run the economy, and I don't want to run the world. I want to be President to restore liberty."

    "The use of force to impose morality is itself immoral, and generosity with others' money is still theft"

    "My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

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