Did China disclose 10k tons of gold reserves and declare itself the largest consumer of gold?

[devil21]

http://www.lbma.org.uk/assets/events...ingnan_EN1.pdf

Since 2009, Chinese gold reserves keep increasing. Successfully breakthrough 7000 ton, 8000 ton, 9000 ton. Till the end of 2014, the gold reserves reach 9816.03 ton, the world’s second (d21: strangely, the file cuts it here...}
...................
In 2013，Chinese gold consumption is over 1000 ton, for the first time surpass Indian and become the biggest gold consumption country in the world. In 2014, gold consumption is 886.09 ton，but China still the biggest gold consumption country.

[TheCount]

No

[Zippyjuan]

Only if they bought every ounce produced in the world since 2009.

[devil21]

No

Only if they bought every ounce produced in the world since 2009.

So, uh, you both are saying the head of the China Gold Association lied during an LBMA conference presentation?

[Zippyjuan]

Well- he says China is now #2 in terms of gold reserves. The US is currently #1 with 8,134 tonnes. Note the spelling. One metric ton is 2,240 pounds. One ton (the spelling in your article) is 2,000 pounds (not sure if it is deliberate or a mistake). The US would have 18,220,160 pounds of gold. In terms of tons (no "e") that is 9,110 tons. The speaker claims that China's 9,816 tons puts them in second place-but if accurate they would be #1. The numbers just don't add up if that is the case because by both measures they would be #1.

However- according to this blog which includes the same image you posted, the "reserves" means ore in the ground.

https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/ko...gold-reserves/

How Much Are Chinese Gold Reserves?

There has been much speculation about a slide from chairman and secretary-general of the China Gold Association Zhang Bingnan presented at the LBMA forum in Shanghai June 25, 2015. The slide states Chinese gold reserves are 9,816.03 tonnes, however, this refers to in ground mining reserves.

I have never received so many emails and tweets as for inquiries about this slide, hence a post to debunk the rumor. Let’s have a look at the slide; clearly we can see Zhang talks about the Chinese mining industry, at the top it says, “<1> Chinese gold mining guarantee the steady supply of world gold”.

Screen Shot 2015-07-05 at 11.42.06 AM

While talking about mining he notes Chinese reserves keep growing; after 2009 reserves crossed 7,000 tonnes, then 8,000 tonnes, 9,000 tonnes, reaching 9,816.03 tonnes by the end of 2014, “the world’s second”. From the context we must conclude he’s talking about mining reserves, additionally he states 9,816 tonnes are the world’s second, which wouldn’t be true if this amount would refer to official gold reserves, as the US Treasury officially holds 8,134 tonnes.

In ground gold is also referred to as reserves, just as above ground gold. From a few years ago, when the China used to publish detailed reports on their gold industry in English, I found an overview from mine reserves per Chinese province.

At the bottom of the overview we can see mining reserves grew from 6,328 tonnes in 2009 to 6,865 tonnes in 2010. These numbers match what Zhang mentioned. Apparently the China Gold Association estimates proven reserves have grown into 9,816 tonnes by the end of 2014.

By and by, when the PBOC will finally update its official gold reserves they won’t do it through a slide on a conference. Likely the event will attract proper Chinese media attention.

Charts at the link.

China would like to have their currency included in the IMF SDR basket of currencies. This is not really currency but a symbolic group of them. That could come up at the next meeting in October. Before that time, China will need to do a couple of things. One is to break their fixed exchange rate with the dollar (they don't want to really include a currency fixed to the value of another). The second is to reveal their true gold holdings so maybe there will be an official update before then. Their last official figure comes from 2009. Some speculate their holdings (then 1,534 tonnes) have doubled or tripled since then. 3,400 tonnes would move them into #2 ahead of Germany in government gold reserves. That may be their target.

[NoOneButPaul]

Only if they bought every ounce produced in the world since 2009.

LOL! The vast majority of gold that exists in the world was produced in the centuries before 2009.

Talk about missing the trees while walking though a forest...

[Zippyjuan]

It was just an example of just how much gold China had supposedly acquired in that time. Other ways one could look at it would be that it would be increasing their holdings by ten fold in just six years. Or almost six percent of all of the gold ever mined (estimated at 170,000 tonnes). It IS an awful lot of gold.

[devil21]

Well- he says China is now #2 in terms of gold reserves. The US is currently #1 with 8,134 tonnes. Note the spelling. One metric ton is 2,240 pounds. One ton (the spelling in your article) is 2,000 pounds (not sure if it is deliberate or a mistake). The US would have 18,220,160 pounds of gold. In terms of tons (no "e") that is 9,110 tons. The speaker claims that China's 9,816 tons puts them in second place-but if accurate they would be #1. The numbers just don't add up if that is the case because by both measures they would be #1.

However- according to this blog which includes the same image you posted, the "reserves" means ore in the ground.

https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/ko...gold-reserves/



Charts at the link.

China would like to have their currency included in the IMF SDR basket of currencies. This is not really currency but a symbolic group of them. That could come up at the next meeting in October. Before that time, China will need to do a couple of things. One is to break their fixed exchange rate with the dollar (they don't want to really include a currency fixed to the value of another). The second is to reveal their true gold holdings so maybe there will be an official update before then. Their last official figure comes from 2009. Some speculate their holdings (then 1,534 tonnes) have doubled or tripled since then. 3,400 tonnes would move them into #2 ahead of Germany in government gold reserves. That may be their target.

Sounds like people are speculating as to what the slide means but no proof either way. Your opinion is noted. China putting a very specific number on "in ground" gold reserves (9,816.03) doesn't ring true to me but I guess we will see soon enough. I think he let the cat out of the bag....

[Smaulgld]

I think that the person speaking was referring to gold MINING reserves.
China is the world's largest gold miner in the world and they don't export any of their mining production. (gold gets exported from China in the black market but not from the official prodution and reserves)

https://smaulgld.com/chinese-gold-mining-production/

[devil21]

I think that the person speaking was referring to gold MINING reserves.
China is the world's largest gold miner in the world and they don't export any of their mining production. (gold gets exported from China in the black market but not from the official prodution and reserves)

https://smaulgld.com/chinese-gold-mining-production/

May as well just say "we have a half million tons of gold mining reserves" and drop the stupid charade of stuff like .03 numbers. I would have expected China's above ground gold holdings to be well above ~9800 tons, so there's that argument in favor of the figure being some random mining reserve numbers. It's not like govt numbers can be trusted....

[Smaulgld]

May as well just say "we have a half million tons of gold mining reserves" and drop the stupid charade of stuff like .03 numbers. I would have expected China's above ground gold holdings to be well above ~9800 tons, so there's that argument in favor of the figure being some random mining reserve numbers. It's not like govt numbers can be trusted....

I can believe that china has equal amts of gold above and below ground
ie about 10k tons each

[devil21]

PBOC added only 600 tons to gold reserves since 2009? Yeah ok. Only way I'd buy that figure is if the rest is now in the BRICS bank (now called the New Development Bank - NDB), not the PBOC. No one seriously believes China has mined and purchased only 600 tons in the last 6 years, do they?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...al-update-2009

[Zippyjuan]

It's official. They now have 1,658 metric tons of gold reserves. That is a bit shy of 10,000 tonnes.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ure-since-2009

China Ends Mystery of Gold Hoard to Top Russia’s Holdings

China ended six years of mystery over how much gold it’s hoarding, revealing a 57 percent jump in reserves and overtaking Russia to become the country with the fifth-largest stash of the metal.

“The market has been speculating on the size of China’s gold reserves for years and the central bank has always been reticent until now,” Fu Peng, a portfolio manager at Lianzhan Global Macro Fund Management Co., said by phone from Beijing.

China boosted bullion assets to 53.31 million troy ounces, or about 1,658 metric tons, the People’s Bank of China said in a statement Friday. That’s up from 1,054 tons in 2009, when it last updated the figures. The U.S. has the biggest reserves at 8,133.5 tons, data from the World Gold Council show.

Gold prices were little changed in reaction as the gain was much less than some had reckoned. Bloomberg Intelligence this year estimated a possible tripling to 3,500 tons, based on domestic output, and China Gold Association and trade figures.

“People were expecting that they have bought a lot more,” Mark O’Byrne, executive director of Dublin-based brokerage GoldCore Ltd., said by phone. “That’s why we haven’t seen much of a movement so far today. The big question is whether they now continue buying.”

Greater Role
Gold remains a large part of many central banks’ reserves, decades after they stopped using it to back paper money. Stockpiles of the metal help China to diversify its foreign-exchange holdings as the world’s second-largest economy seeks to raise the international profile of its own currency. The disclosure on gold reserves also assists in that goal.

“China is still pushing for a greater role for its currency globally by having full transparency,” Fu said.

[devil21]

Nobody paying attention believes that number is the actual amount of gold mined and purchased by China, Zippy. There's another shoe yet to be dropped and that is the gold holdings of the new regional bank based in Shanghai.

[TheCount]

Nobody paying attention believes that number is the actual amount of gold mined and purchased by China, Zippy. There's another shoe yet to be dropped and that is the gold holdings of the new regional bank based in Shanghai.

[Zippyjuan]

Nobody said it was the amount mined in China. The government said that is how much they have acquired. Since China is trying to boost their currency image and get admitted to the IMF and join in their SDRs, I would think that if they were lying about the amount of gold they actually have, it would be on the high side- to make them look even better- not the low side.

The Shanghai Development Bank is intended to be loaning money like the World Bank. They are not the central bank and don't own any gold. It will have $100 billion in capital to start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Development_Bank