The Church of our Lord vs homosexuality--not a politically correct opinion, but still truth.

[Terry1]

I don't what? If you mean me not thinking that the fulfillment of the Eschaton is coming this year, that's primarily because Dispensational Premillennialism is a pile of excrement spewed directly out of Satan's mouth. It's no coincidence that America started degenerating into an empire soon after Cyrus I. Scofield began pedaling his counterfeit bible.

IMO, Premillennialism doesn't matter either--what does is abiding and sustaining faith in God that no matter when Jesus returns that our lanterns are filled with oil--meaning we are within the will of God and abiding in faith. So whether someone believes in the rapture theory or whatever--it really doesn't matter at all. God chooses whomever He will based upon abiding faith and those living and doing what we were told to do--hence the two greatest commandments in the Bible--love everyone the same as you love God--do unto others as you would have them do unto you--that's it.

You're preaching to the choir here, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here apart from telling me things that I already know.



A man who brags that he is the only true Christian on the planet and yet takes a pagan wife and expects his marriage to succeed has little place lecturing anyone on the topic of who is suffering from an American version of Christianity.

There's a lot of Christians out there trying to convince themselves that they're Christians by telling everyone that they are when they're no where close because they can't live up to the standards and judgments that they've set for everyone else too.

Fanatics tend to have dark thoughts and they tend to read prophecy through the eyes of the daily newspaper and mistaking it with the Bible. I also pray, primarily that you'll find your common sense

.

Fanaticism is relative to whatever one's frame of reference is these days, like just about everything else. Some people are just ignorantly complacent too thinking that they've nothing left to do but wait on the Lord to swoop them off this earth and into heaven simply because at one point they claimed to accept and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. They're so chosen, self important and special simply because they exist and breath air that their only purpose in life now is to sit back wait for their extraterrestrial glorified exit into eternal heavenly bliss.

You're getting really close to Harold Camping territory with all of this numerological gibberish. Contrary to what you may think, allowing yourself to be tossed to and fro by this stuff is in the same realm as astrology, and disseminating it is not a good idea.



I do that every day, I don't need some abominable news story to inspire what is expected of every Christian. You might want to take some of your own advice, because people who misrepresent prophecy are not right with the Lord.

Everyone misrepresents prophecy to some degree because as Apostle Paul said--we all see through the glass darkly. No one is 100 percent correct and never will be on that note. Saying that they're not right with the Lord is sort of your own sword falling on your own head there IMO.

There have been people claiming that the world was going to end in their lifetimes in America since the early 19th century, and they have all been wrong primarily because they read the bible the way you do. I am going to be bold and make a prediction based on my understanding of scripture and assert that the fulfillment of the Eschaton will not come in either of our lifetimes. The end of America may be just around the bend, but that has no bearing on the finality of what is taught in Revelation.

Most believers are expecting something big to happen and many have been wrong about dates and times and that's why we're told not to try to predict anything with regard to it, but to be ready when it does happen, but Wizzy is right about the fact that we know it's coming and Jesus told us that we'd have some clue by the signs of the times. There are some things happening with regard to prophecy that just can't be denied at this point being that 911 was biblically prophetic, being that Jonathan Cahn (a Messianic Jew) has precisely and accurately IMO connected the prophetic dots right down to the last detail with regard to the cedar tree replacing the sycamore that being was the tree of hope right there on ground zero with Tom Daschel's and Edwards unknowingly and unaware of what they were actually saying and quoting from that very same scripture to confirm that it's all there! These are the "signs" spoken of and only those who are partially spiritually blind can not see them as truth.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am not a proponent of Premillennialism or of Independent theology. There are few forms of blasphemy more repulsive than people who subject God's prophecy to the idea that America is the center of the universe. I thank God that I was never subjected to such insanity, and I pray that less people will be swallowed up by it.

Well, don't be shocked if and when you make it past those pearly gates you see those "Premillennialists standing before you just the same as well. It's not our misunderstanding of all scripture that will prohibit any of us from obtaining eternal life in Christ--but it will be our lack of abiding faith and understanding of just what that all entails that might send some spiraling downward into the pit. Live your own spiritual convictions and preach as Christ taught and that should be sufficient.

[Terry1]

Another thing I wanted to add is that don't believe that just because someone doesn't subscribe to whatever is your brand of denominational faith that God isn't using them in great ways and as His oracles of truth. God scatters His truth and uses whomever He chooses and whenever He chooses knowing that only those who are truly abiding in the Spirit of the Lord in faith will recognize that same truth when they see and hear it.

[wizardwatson]

I don't what? If you mean me not thinking that the fulfillment of the Eschaton is coming this year, that's primarily because Dispensational Premillennialism is a pile of excrement spewed directly out of Satan's mouth. It's no coincidence that America started degenerating into an empire soon after Cyrus I. Scofield began pedaling his counterfeit bible.




You're preaching to the choir here, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here apart from telling me things that I already know.



A man who brags that he is the only true Christian on the planet and yet takes a pagan wife and expects his marriage to succeed has little place lecturing anyone on the topic of who is suffering from an American version of Christianity.



Fanatics tend to have dark thoughts and they tend to read prophecy through the eyes of the daily newspaper and mistaking it with the Bible. I also pray, primarily that you'll find your common sense.



You're getting really close to Harold Camping territory with all of this numerological gibberish. Contrary to what you may think, allowing yourself to be tossed to and fro by this stuff is in the same realm as astrology, and disseminating it is not a good idea.



I do that every day, I don't need some abominable news story to inspire what is expected of every Christian. You might want to take some of your own advice, because people who misrepresent prophecy are not right with the Lord.



There have been people claiming that the world was going to end in their lifetimes in America since the early 19th century, and they have all been wrong primarily because they read the bible the way you do. I am going to be bold and make a prediction based on my understanding of scripture and assert that the fulfillment of the Eschaton will not come in either of our lifetimes. The end of America may be just around the bend, but that has no bearing on the finality of what is taught in Revelation.



And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am not a proponent of Premillennialism or of Independent theology. There are few forms of blasphemy more repulsive than people who subject God's prophecy to the idea that America is the center of the universe. I thank God that I was never subjected to such insanity, and I pray that less people will be swallowed up by it.

So sorry. I defer to my sig.

Apocalypse is pretty much imminent for me daily.

Pardone, mon frere.

Every day from here on out is extra time to repent!!!







You're probably wrong by the way.





By the way, by the way. Eventually "TOMMORROW" will be accurate. Jus' sayin'.

[hells_unicorn]

IMO, Premillennialism doesn't matter either--what does is abiding and sustaining faith in God that no matter when Jesus returns that our lanterns are filled with oil--meaning we are within the will of God and abiding in faith. So whether someone believes in the rapture theory or whatever--it really doesn't matter at all. God chooses whomever He will based upon abiding faith and those living and doing what we were told to do--hence the two greatest commandments in the Bible--love everyone the same as you love God--do unto others as you would have them do unto you--that's it.

What if I told you that disseminating false views of prophecy, even when done unintentionally, gives God's enemies cause to blaspheme and hinders the progress of the church? And does a person who habitually takes the Lord's name in vain by holding to such views really love God?

There's a lot of Christians out there trying to convince themselves that they're Christians by telling everyone that they are when they're no where close because they can't live up to the standards and judgments that they've set for everyone else too.

True enough, I hope someone else in this thread heeds these words.

Fanaticism is relative to whatever one's frame of reference is these days, like just about everything else. Some people are just ignorantly complacent too thinking that they've nothing left to do but wait on the Lord to swoop them off this earth and into heaven simply because at one point they claimed to accept and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. They're so chosen, self important and special simply because they exist and breath air that their only purpose in life now is to sit back wait for their extraterrestrial glorified exit into eternal heavenly bliss.

Fanaticism has a definition, and it applies to the ravings that I responded to earlier. People that have no control over their zeal and begin spouting nonsensical word salads about signs and symbolism with little doctrinal basis aren't bringing glory to God. Furthermore, your objection regarding complacency is perfectly fitted for Pre-trib. fanatics who think they can be swooped up by simply regurgitating scripture by rote and behaving as they choose. This is not my position, and if you thought it was, you may want to do some hard thinking about who is blind here.

Everyone misrepresents prophecy to some degree because as Apostle Paul said--we all see through the glass darkly. No one is 100 percent correct and never will be on that note. Saying that they're not right with the Lord is sort of your own sword falling on your own head there IMO.

Wizardwatson doesn't think that Paul was a valid apostle, so your admonishments are woefully misdirected here. And this isn't about being 100 percent correct, this is about accepting or rejecting the teachings of a 19th century Heresiarch who helped perpetuate the sort of antinomian lawlessness that you are seeing unfold in American Christianity.

Most believers are expecting something big to happen and many have been wrong about dates and times and that's why we're told not to try to predict anything with regard to it, but to be ready when it does happen, but Wizzy is right about the fact that we know it's coming and Jesus told us that we'd have some clue by the signs of the times.

Wizzy just predicted the fulfillment of the entire Prophecy of Revelation in the near future based on news headlines, so admittedly he made a massive error and yet you see fit to defend him. If he's wrong about this and somebody does something stupid or dangerous based on a lie, there will be consequences.

There are some things happening with regard to prophecy that just can't be denied at this point being that 911 was biblically prophetic, being that Jonathan Cahn (a Messianic Jew) has precisely and accurately IMO connected the prophetic dots right down to the last detail with regard to the cedar tree replacing the sycamore that being was the tree of hope right there on ground zero with Tom Daschel's and Edwards unknowingly and unaware of what they were actually saying and quoting from that very same scripture to confirm that it's all there! These are the "signs" spoken of and only those who are partially spiritually blind can not see them as truth.

When you've read as much church history as I have and you've seen all of the similar parallels that were drawn to similar past events in anticipation of judgment day, you tend to take stuff like this with a massive grain of salt. This sort of irrational anticipation and careless speculation about providence is exactly what led to the birth of all the American cults (Mormonism, Jehova's Witness, ect.) that have been leading the unregenerate astray. I feel perfectly safe in treating all of the stuff you've cited with a healthy degree of skepticism, and in no way shape or form does my lack of frantic anticipation of the end affect my zeal for the Christian faith, quite the opposite actually.

Well, don't be shocked if and when you make it past those pearly gates you see those "Premillennialists standing before you just the same as well. It's not our misunderstanding of all scripture that will prohibit any of us from obtaining eternal life in Christ--but it will be our lack of abiding faith and understanding of just what that all entails that might send some spiraling downward into the pit. Live your own spiritual convictions and preach as Christ taught and that should be sufficient.

I won't be shocked by it, nor will I be shocked by them being marked by the consequences of their deviations from orthodoxy (Matthew 5:19). Seeking after what is sufficient is the beginning, but not the end of faith, and those who come to know that they have erred are bound to correct their thoughts and actions in accordance with repentance unto life. Knowing all of the damage that has come to the Christian Faith within the past 200 years with the rise of Premillennialism, I can not in good conscience openly condone it being taught, nor shrink away when challenged on the proper constitution of the Christian faith, as noted by Paul in Ephesians 2:19-22, as a church fitly framed and growing together, and one that does not seek after private interpretations of prophecy (1 Peter 11:20).


I think I've stated my piece on this matter, and will bow out of further discussion as things are beginning to veer a little off-topic.

[wizardwatson]

Wizardwatson doesn't think that Paul was a valid apostle, so your admonishments are woefully misdirected here.

I recanted my misgivings about Paul.

You should pay attention more.

Like Jesus said to.

Instead of consoling people when YOU ALSO HAVE NO EVIDENCE.

I don't have scriptural evidence to point to a specific time you're right. But the signs are there. And Jesus said to watch for those signs.

So repent or perish. Time is short. That much I know.

[jllundqu]

Sorry couldn't help it.

[hells_unicorn]

So sorry. I defer to my sig.

Apocalypse is pretty much imminent for me daily.

Pardone, mon frere.

Every day from here on out is extra time to repent!!!

You're probably wrong by the way.

By the way, by the way. Eventually "TOMMORROW" will be accurate. Jus' sayin'.

Ease up on the hyperbole next time and you'll inspire a more measured reaction out of me. Contrary to how it may seem, I hate having to take the gloves off with somebody on this stuff and would prefer a more cordial conversation, even for a topic as grave as America destroying itself, which I think you and I fundamentally agree is happening.

As to me being wrong, while it may well be possible, I don't think the Post-Millennial view espoused by the Reformed Church is, and that is primarily because of the way it sees church history and how it relates to scripture. I read scripture with the saints of the historic faith, and contrary to what most Evangelicals running around today might say, Premillennialism, and particularly the non-Covenant-based mode that is so popular today, Dispensationalism was never a prominent position.

Yes, tomorrow will eventually be accurate, and the world will look a very peculiar way when that particular tomorrow is on the horizon.

[hells_unicorn]

Sorry couldn't help it.

Is it just me, or are atheists incapable of thinking about things other than sex?

[wizardwatson]

Ease up on the hyperbole next time and you'll inspire a more measured reaction out of me. Contrary to how it may seem, I hate having to take the gloves off with somebody on this stuff and would prefer a more cordial conversation, even for a topic as grave as America destroying itself, which I think you and I fundamentally agree is happening.

As to me being wrong, while it may well be possible, I don't think the Post-Millennial view espoused by the Reformed Church is, and that is primarily because of the way it sees church history and how it relates to scripture. I read scripture with the saints of the historic faith, and contrary to what most Evangelicals running around today might say, Premillennialism, and particularly the non-Covenant-based mode that is so popular today, Dispensationalism was never a prominent position.

Yes, tomorrow will eventually be accurate, and the world will look a very peculiar way when that particular tomorrow is on the horizon.

Actually I take that back. I do have some "jewish" scripture evidence concerning the times around gay marriage. I posted it in my "WBC fights in court to save KS from God's Wrath" thread a good 8 months ago. In it it talks about how during the time of the flood men starting marrying men with contracts.

This is from a brief WBC filed in federal court attempting to intervene.

Worse still is same sex marriage, in its destructive effect on society. The old Jewish writings report that the final offense that brought Noah’s Flood was the making of marriage contracts between men. Here it is described in A Spiritual and Ethical Compendium to the Torah and Talmud by Rabbi Arthur Segal and Frank Dunne, Jr., 2008, at 47-48 (online: http://bit.ly/1rGHgkp last visited October 26, 2014).

[Genesis] Verse 6:11 says that the world was corrupt and filled with robbery. God was going to destroy the world for this corruption and robbery. This seems awfully harsh, especially in today’s world where corruption and theft seems commonplace. Rashi [Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki, 1040, France] says a better translation of corruption is immorality and idol worship. The Midrash says that adultery, incest and stealing were all part of man’s daily schedule. Powerful men would take any women that they chose. The Midrash also says that a major sin of this generation was sexual relations purely for lascivious gratification. Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 57A says that the world was immersed in jealousy, greed, theft, violence, lying, impatience, intolerance, deception and fraud. The worst of all the transgressions according to both Rashi and Ibn Ezra was that people exploited each other sexually. Sounds rather familiar, doesn’t it? Hold on, there’s more.

The Midrash Vayikra Rabba says: Everyone and everything became amoral. Even animals became so morally corrupt and decadent that one species mated with another species dogs with wolves, horses with donkeys, snakes with birds. The generation of the Flood was finally wiped away when they started writing songs extolling cohabitation of males with males and males with animals. Another Midrash says that males just didn’t sodomize other males, but that they signed ketobot (marriage contracts) legalizing these relationships. (Emphasis added.)

You see, the way I see it, people in this country are severely lacking in fear of God. Doesn't hurt to be on the safe side.

Sure gay marriage is all over the world. Canada, Mexico, Ireland, yada, yada. But in America, for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere quite a few times, it stands where it ought not.

[Terry1]

Is it just me, or are atheists incapable of thinking about things other than sex?

It's not just atheists--we've got some really horny Christians in here too. I won't mention any names.

[jllundqu]

Is it just me, or are atheists incapable of thinking about things other than sex?

Not an atheist, but nice try

[Terry1]

Not an atheist, but nice try

Yeah, I read you and I knew you were not an atheist. We gotta give hu some space because he's not read-up on everyone.

[Terry1]

What if I told you that disseminating false views of prophecy, even when done unintentionally, gives God's enemies cause to blaspheme and hinders the progress of the church? And does a person who habitually takes the Lord's name in vain by holding to such views really love God?



True enough, I hope someone else in this thread heeds these words.



Fanaticism has a definition, and it applies to the ravings that I responded to earlier. People that have no control over their zeal and begin spouting nonsensical word salads about signs and symbolism with little doctrinal basis aren't bringing glory to God. Furthermore, your objection regarding complacency is perfectly fitted for Pre-trib. fanatics who think they can be swooped up by simply regurgitating scripture by rote and behaving as they choose. This is not my position, and if you thought it was, you may want to do some hard thinking about who is blind here.



Wizardwatson doesn't think that Paul was a valid apostle, so your admonishments are woefully misdirected here. And this isn't about being 100 percent correct, this is about accepting or rejecting the teachings of a 19th century Heresiarch who helped perpetuate the sort of antinomian lawlessness that you are seeing unfold in American Christianity.



Wizzy just predicted the fulfillment of the entire Prophecy of Revelation in the near future based on news headlines, so admittedly he made a massive error and yet you see fit to defend him. If he's wrong about this and somebody does something stupid or dangerous based on a lie, there will be consequences.



When you've read as much church history as I have and you've seen all of the similar parallels that were drawn to similar past events in anticipation of judgment day, you tend to take stuff like this with a massive grain of salt. This sort of irrational anticipation and careless speculation about providence is exactly what led to the birth of all the American cults (Mormonism, Jehova's Witness, ect.) that have been leading the unregenerate astray. I feel perfectly safe in treating all of the stuff you've cited with a healthy degree of skepticism, and in no way shape or form does my lack of frantic anticipation of the end affect my zeal for the Christian faith, quite the opposite actually.



I won't be shocked by it, nor will I be shocked by them being marked by the consequences of their deviations from orthodoxy (Matthew 5:19). Seeking after what is sufficient is the beginning, but not the end of faith, and those who come to know that they have erred are bound to correct their thoughts and actions in accordance with repentance unto life. Knowing all of the damage that has come to the Christian Faith within the past 200 years with the rise of Premillennialism, I can not in good conscience openly condone it being taught, nor shrink away when challenged on the proper constitution of the Christian faith, as noted by Paul in Ephesians 2:19-22, as a church fitly framed and growing together, and one that does not seek after private interpretations of prophecy (1 Peter 11:20).


I think I've stated my piece on this matter, and will bow out of further discussion as things are beginning to veer a little off-topic.

Well if you don't mind me asking just what is your current denominational belief? Please forgive me if I missed that in one of your other posts.

[Jamesiv1]

Sorry couldn't help it.

lol ^^this

Attraction, not promotion. Inviting someone to come visit us this Sunday is great; but imposing one's beliefs on another is rude.

Of course, we're here in an internet discussion forum where dick-waving is good sport

[Terry1]

lol ^^this

Attraction, not promotion. Inviting someone to come visit us this Sunday is great; but imposing one's beliefs on another is rude.

Of course, we're here in an internet discussion forum where dick-waving is good sport

Just remember not all of us have dicks.

[Jamesiv1]

Just remember not all of us have dicks.

doesn't mean you can't play. Gender discrimination is forbidden here in the Liberty Forest

[Terry1]

doesn't mean you can't play. Gender discrimination is forbidden here in the Liberty Forest

I don't swing that way and I never discriminate either, but that doesn't mean I'm a ho. I'm a one man/dick woman.

[Jamesiv1]

I don't swing that way and I never discriminate either, but that doesn't mean I'm a ho. I'm a one man/dick woman.

I didn't imply you swing any way at all, nor did I say you discriminate or imply you are a ho!! lol

sheesh, you're awfully prickly the past couple of days.

[Terry1]

I didn't imply you swing any way at all, nor did I say you discriminate or imply you are a ho!! lol

sheesh, you're awfully prickly the past couple of days.

I was joking with you. Maybe I should've added a wink smiley to that post. Lol

[Jamesiv1]

I was joking with you. Maybe I should've added a wink smiley to that post. Lol

ahhh, good. Then I take it all back

[Terry1]

ahhh, good. Then I take it all back

[hells_unicorn]

Well if you don't mind me asking just what is your current denominational belief? Please forgive me if I missed that in one of your other posts.

Covenanter (Steelite), Reformed Presbyterian. The doctrines espoused were held in common by the RPCNA (Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America) prior to the mid 19th century. This website covers the basic tenants and history of the position.

[hells_unicorn]

Not an atheist, but nice try

Humble apologies, I forgot that bad comedy is not unique to unbelievers.

[Terry1]

Covenanter (Steelite), Reformed Presbyterian. The doctrines espoused were held in common by the RPCNA (Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America) prior to the mid 19th century. This website covers the basic tenants and history of the position.

Thanks, it helps to understand where you're currently at doctrinally speaking. I pretty much knew that was your base, but I wasn't sure.