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Thread: Why has Rand not released a statement on the same sex marriage ruling?

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Your version of "Christianity".........Don't forget that there are ***** who profess to be Christian...

    You STILL haven't tied the **** verdict to violations of the 1st, bringing up local decisions in local courts isn't furthering your argument.

    As much as I disapprove of ***** I really hope the "Moral Majority" are literally forced into a corner by this decision, so much so that as a collective group they're forced to reevaluate some of the positions they've pushed over the years that severely, and adversely, affected so many.

    Try to see that the ***** have only done what the "Moral Majority" has been doing for decades...

    Leaves a bitter taste in your mouth doesn't it?
    The so called "moral majority" is not responsible for pushing tyrannical social laws any more than is the left and non Christians. The American people across the board, including both Christians and non Christians have been in favor of drug laws. So something like that has absolutely nothing to do with the "religious right alone" forcing their views on everyone else.



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Religious liberty means having the right to practice your religion as you see fit. And I'll give you examples of how the gay rights movement is infringing on the religious liberty rights of Christians.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-31233574.html

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...supreme-court/
    The second case you provided happened in a state that did not recognize gay marriage at the time, so again I reiterate that the state's recognition has no bearing on this issue with Christian businesses. There might be some correlation simply because of the increase in the number of gay marriages taking place, but the root problem is more related to the CRA and the issue about refusal of service or freedom of association.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  4. #123
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 06-26-2016 at 10:28 AM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    The second case you provided happened in a state that did not recognize gay marriage at the time, so again I reiterate that the state's recognition has no bearing on this issue with Christian businesses. There might be some correlation simply because of the increase in the number of gay marriages taking place, but the root problem is more related to the CRA and the issue about refusal of service or freedom of association.
    Fair point. It's still true that none of these religious liberty violations occurred before the gay rights movement really began to kick into high gear.

  6. #125
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 06-26-2016 at 10:29 AM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The CRA should only have dealt with discrimination by the government, not by individuals. Much of the discrimination in the 50's and 60's south came by law from the state governments - it was illegal to not discriminate. Once you knock down those government barriers it becomes easy to deal with discrimination by individual businesses simply by using boycotts.
    I agree. The Civil Rights Act is part of the problem as well. But now Rand is refusing to speak out against the Civil Rights Act. And yeah I understand, politics and all and that he can't get away with that. But it's just unfortunate.

  8. #127
    Some of us are kind of between a rock and a hard place because we can't support Cruz because of his interventionist foreign policy, but unfortunately Rand is far worse than Cruz on this issue, and if Rand keeps it up we won't be able to support him eith
    Of course, this is exactly how Jeb Bush will be the nominee...

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by squirl22 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    I agree. The Civil Rights Act is part of the problem as well. But now Rand is refusing to speak out against the Civil Rights Act. And yeah I understand, politics and all and that he can't get away with that. But it's just unfortunate.
    Of course, this is exactly how Jeb Bush will be the nominee...
    Exactly how he is engineered to win the nomination. Exactly how. A perfect sample. A dangerous strategy.

    Is this how he will be the nominee--and go on to lose to Clinton? Depends. Mr. Traditional Conservative all over the country! Are you listening?

    It doesn't matter if Cruz' lip service sounds better than Rand's promises here and there! Cruz blathers lip service and Rand makes a stand! You people might get led down the garden path. And we may never be able to prove that, because the damned idiot Democrat won. But this does not mean we're going down that garden path with you. Screw that.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-28-2015 at 04:40 PM. Reason: Spread some rep myself
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Exactly how he is engineered to win the nomination. Exactly how. A perfect sample. A dangerous strategy.

    Is this how he will be the nominee--and go on to lose to Clinton? Depends. Mr. Traditional Conservative all over the country! Are you listening?

    It doesn't matter if Cruz' lip service sounds better than Rand's promises here and there! Cruz blathers lip service and Rand makes a stand! You people might get led down the garden path. And we may never be able to prove that, because the damned idiot Democrat won. But this does not mean we're going down that garden path with you. Screw that.

    Somebody please rep that squirrel for me! I'll be spreading myself.
    I hope that I'll still be able to support Rand. I'm very disappointed in his silence on this, but if he publicly comes out in favor of defending religious liberty in the coming weeks and months, that will be enough for me to continue to support him. It's all up to him at this point.

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    I hope that I'll still be able to support Rand. I'm very disappointed in his silence on this, but if he publicly comes out in favor of defending religious liberty in the coming weeks and months, that will be enough for me to continue to support him. It's all up to him at this point.
    You think he has flip-flopped since April? Or even in the last two years?


    Quote Originally Posted by randomname View Post
    Paul hasn’t refrained from talking about gay marriage before, however. In April, in an interview with CNN’s Dana Bash, Paul said he believed “people ought to be treated fairly under the law” but also said he believed in the “traditional religious connotation” of marriage, usually defined by religious conservatives as between a man and a woman.

    “And you probably could have both,” Paul added. “You could have both traditional marriage, which I believe in. And then you could also have the neutrality of the law that allows people to have contracts with another.”
    INDEPENDENCE , IA - MAY 19: Democratic presidential hopeful and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visits Laree's The Shoppe of Favorites store on May 19, 2015 in Independence, Iowa. Earlier in the day Clinton hosted a small business forum with members of the business and lending communities in Cedar Falls, Iowa. (Photo by Scott Olson/Getty Images)

    Also on POLITICO
    Clinton slams GOP as 'party of the past'

    GABRIEL DEBENEDETTI

    In a 2013 interview with the American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer, Paul voiced reservations about “federalizing” same-sex marriage.

    “I’m not sure exactly how I’d come down on the federalization part,” Paul said in the January 2013 interview. “My fear is that in federalizing it, we’re going to lose the battle for the whole country. In keeping it state by state, which is the way marriage has always been adjudicated, we’ll have states that continue to have traditional marriage. I think we’re losing in large areas of the country now. If the urban areas are able to dictate, for the rest of the country, what our definition of marriage is, I’m really concerned about that.”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...16-119500.html
    We know where he stands. The only thing to change since then is a SCOTUS ruling. Those things tend to be long, and convoluted, and are liable to require some digestion and thought before a way can be found to live with them, or get around them. And there is no point in saying anything until you know what can be intelligently said. A kneejerk reaction is easy. It's also meaningless. You seem to want something right now, even if it's just posturing. But 'Do something, even if it's wrong' is very often a piss poor strategy. Especially when the MSM spend their days and nights sharpening their knives primarily for you.

    I hope he and his staff read this monstrosity and find something interesting in it. If they do, I'm sure we'll hear about it shortly thereafter. And if they cannot, then this big buildup will be for naught. But give the man a chance to inform himself well enough to find a meaningful and enlightening answer.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-28-2015 at 04:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  13. #131
    Jan2017
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Rand had a "knee jerk reaction" to the Obamacare ruling. He commented on it and criticized it right away without reflecting on it and reading the ruling.
    Rand's learning curve will be short though . . .
    remind me/us in the forums here. and the campaign too when this happens . . . it doesn't look good - and everyone would advise against it.

    . . . maybe Rand needs a press secretary before he is even elected, for all the extraneous bullsheeeet.

    think more like Def Leppard maybe comes to mind (?) -
    I'll be two steps behind --- but right.
    Take the time to think about it.



    .

  14. #132
    Drudge headline: "Rand comes out swinging on gay marriage... Developing... "
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington

  15. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericasLastHope View Post
    Drudge headline: "Rand comes out swinging on gay marriage... Developing... "
    TIME (op-ed): Rand Paul: Government Should Get Out of the Marriage Business
    http://time.com/3939374/rand-paul-go...iage-business/

    Happy now?
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    TIME (op-ed): Rand Paul: Government Should Get Out of the Marriage Business
    http://time.com/3939374/rand-paul-go...iage-business/

    Happy now?
    Yes! Better late than never. I'm really glad he's taking this position. I agree with everything he said in the article.

  17. #135
    I probably did get quite carried away in all of this. I should've been more patient. Mods, please delete this thread if you will.

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Yes! Better late than never. I'm really glad he's taking this position. I agree with everything he said in the article.
    I also agree with everything he said. Great way to show the hypocrisy about liberty on some contracts (marriage) but not other contracts (wages). I wonder if any others in the GOP field will follow his lead about the government getting out of marriage altogether, or if they will just continue pouting about the SCOTUS decision, or if they will try to avoid it altogether.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    TIME (op-ed): Rand Paul: Government Should Get Out of the Marriage Business
    http://time.com/3939374/rand-paul-go...iage-business/

    Happy now?
    That was better than I expected it would be.

  21. #138
    Jan2017
    Member

    Me ? ... grad school in Cleveland - Lewis-NASA/Case/CCF
    . . .

    Government should get out of ______________________ (fill in the blank)

    \

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    I probably did get quite carried away in all of this. I should've been more patient. Mods, please delete this thread if you will.
    Oh, things aren't that bad.

    But he definitely mined an ounce of gold out of Thomas' dissent. It was worth the wait just because of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-28-2015 at 07:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  23. #140
    Jan2017
    Member

    yanking chains . . . welcome to Fox News

  24. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    The so called "moral majority" is not responsible for pushing tyrannical social laws any more than is the left and non Christians. The American people across the board, including both Christians and non Christians have been in favor of drug laws. So something like that has absolutely nothing to do with the "religious right alone" forcing their views on everyone else.
    See, here's the thing. I'm no fan of the "war on drugs". But as a Christian I see a difference between laws that punish evil, even where the government doesn't have jurisdiction scriputrally, vs punishing the righteous. I'm not really even for the government restricting the sale of crack to teenagers, if the teenagers are willing. THat's the job of families and churches. But such a law is far less egregious than the government trying to shove a gay wedding into the house of God. Not even close.

    Oh, and as for ***** who are practicing and claiming to be Christian, that's just blasphemy as well as homosexuality. Which is just another capital offense.
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Yes! Better late than never.
    How is it "late"? When did you publish your 700+ word statement on Friday's ruling?

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulGeorge&Ringo View Post
    How is it "late"? When did you publish your 700+ word statement on Friday's ruling?
    Yeah, good point. I guess I was basically saying that he could've let people know what he was doing by tweeting something like "will comment on the Supreme Court's marriage decision in an Op-Ed on Sunday." But, it's fine the way he did it. I should've been more patient as I said.

  27. #144
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again." http://time.com/3939374/rand-paul-ga...supreme-court/

    From a wise and urbane posting up above by "randomname" a neat & tidy quote i like! Senator Rand Paul has been very consistent!

    "Paul hasn’t refrained from talking about gay marriage before, however. In April, in an interview with CNN’s Dana Bash, Paul said he believed “people ought to be treated fairly under the law” but also said he believed in the “traditional religious connotation” of marriage, usually defined by religious conservatives as between a man and a woman.

    “And you probably could have both,” Paul added. “You could have both traditional marriage, which I believe in. And then you could also have the neutrality of the law that allows people to have contracts with another.”



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    I probably did get quite carried away in all of this. I should've been more patient. Mods, please delete this thread if you will.
    Actually, it would be way more helpful to keep this thread and learn from it as we deal with some of the other threads here

    that are focused on official and unofficial censorship, and also the proper place for old battle~flags. If we can apply a similar

    logic to the other issue over the past few days that has lead to many a heated discussion and not a consensus, just maybe

    by rethinking the basic question in a highly principled & fair manner we can avoid being darn brash, brusque and too blunt.

    we must figure out a consensus approach ourselves before we can do an outreach to people outside these forum areas here.

  30. #146
    deep down we all needed something to remind us all who we are and why we are here, and why the forums
    can be rather pleasant when we tolerate a diversity of viewpoints as we look at the alternatives before us all.

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    I probably did get quite carried away in all of this. I should've been more patient. Mods, please delete this thread if you will.
    I guess we need to find something else to complain about.

    Its cool though, we all get frustrated sometimes. We had some discussion, and probably people on RPF will be more patient from now on.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




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