Rand Paul: Confederate flag is “inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery”

[phill4paul]

You guys are absolutely ridiculous about this, and that is why people assume you are probably racist too.

The flag originally flew over the dome of the state capitol building. In 2000, because of controversy, that flag was moved to a memorial on the State House grounds. An African American historical memorial was erected on the east lawn in 2001. That is what is called compromise. Obviously compromise is not enough for some. Who's being absolutely ridiculous about this?

[LawnWake]

Flags on their own don't mean anything. They're pieces of fabric. Whatever they mean is whatever you attach to them. The Confederate flag can be a symbol of racism as much as a symbol for states rights, depending on how you use it and what you want it to represent. Given its history, either use is perfectly understandable. It's no different from what the Swastika may mean to Jews and what it means in Hinduism.

However, with even the current American government being profoundly racist. I really do not understand why the Confederate flag is supposed to be a symbol of oppression and the American flag a symbol of freedom. I'm not gonna conveniently ignore the War on Drugs.

[ChristianAnarchist]

The battle flag is going down, let's face it. I am a Yankee living in the south who thinks the wrong side won the civil war and I rather like the confederate flag (although I don't currently own one). The major "feeling" is that it stands for racism and there's some "evidence" supporting that position because of many racists who use it in that manner. There are plenty of other people who see it as a symbol of states rights and they are going to lose this one. There really is no correct way to solve this issue. The majority of people (fueled by the press) have come to "believe" it's a racist symbol so it's going to go away (at least in any form of state display). I feel everyone's pain but it's a done deal...

[Carlybee]

Ok. I'm part Native American. My ancestors were forced to relocate from their ancestral lands, escorted by regiments carrying the U.S.Flag. I think that flag represents oppression and bondage. Not to mention the total violation of property rights. Take down those flags Mr. Gorbachev....errr...Obama.


Dumb de dumb dumb

[Ronin Truth]

The battle flag is going down, let's face it. I am a Yankee living in the south who thinks the wrong side won the civil war and I rather like the confederate flag (although I don't currently own one). The major "feeling" is that it stands for racism and there's some "evidence" supporting that position because of many racists who use it in that manner. There are plenty of other people who see it as a symbol of states rights and they are going to lose this one. There really is no correct way to solve this issue. The majority of people (fueled by the press) have come to "believe" it's a racist symbol so it's going to go away (at least in any form of state display). I feel everyone's pain but it's a done deal...

Truly we've become a pitiful Nation of Sheeple!

[ChristianAnarchist]

Ok. I'm part Native American. My ancestors were forced to relocate from their ancestral lands, escorted by regiments carrying the U.S.Flag. I think that flag represents oppression and bondage. Not to mention the total violation of property rights. Take down those flags Mr. Gorbachev....errr...Obama.


Dumb de dumb dumb

You are quite right. There's been far more racism under the "Stars and Stripes" but I don't see any campaign to tear it down (but I'd support one...)

[AuH20]

I can't wait for that traitorous SOB Roberts to make the week complete.

[Carlybee]

You are quite right. There's been far more racism under the "Stars and Stripes" but I don't see any campaign to tear it down (but I'd support one...)

Not only racism but genocide.

[orenbus]

Today this show would be banned.

[fisharmor]

Not only racism but genocide.

Well, in the words of the anti-confederates, your side lost, so you don't get to be in the discussion anymore.

[wizardwatson]

I can't wait for that traitorous SOB Roberts to make the week complete.

You talking about Affordable Care thing? Chief Justice Roberts?

[nayjevin]

The flag originally flew over the dome of the state capitol building. In 2000, because of controversy, that flag was moved to a memorial on the State House grounds. An African American historical memorial was erected on the east lawn in 2001. That is what is called compromise. Obviously compromise is not enough for some. Who's being absolutely ridiculous about this?

That's all good, I mean those folks, who are always white, that think 'they' are coming for everything 'we' stand for and use the symbol to identify each other as brothers in this 'battle' against 'liberal media.' It's far easier to understand how that makes people think they are racist than it is to envision their efforts convincing anyone a truth about secession and federalism.

[phill4paul]

When defending a symbol, there is a law of diminishing returns in effect as to success of showing people the 'true' meaning behind the symbol. At some point, when symbols are lost, it becomes a better proposition to move on.

Have you ever thought that it is not about "showing people the 'true' meaning behind the symbol" but about honoring ones forebears? If people wish to remain ignorant let them. This is about those that use this symbol to remember the sacrifice of those that came before that fought for hearth and home against an invading army that wished to subjugate them to it's laws. What should they move onto? What is left?

[AuH20]

You talking about Affordable Care thing? Chief Justice Roberts?

Yup. He's going to give it to us good on Friday.

[jj-]

Yup. He's going to give it to us good on Friday.

Maybe he'll have fun keeping the suspense to allow McConnell and the Republican Congress to do it?

[AuH20]

That's all good, I mean those folks, who are always white, that think 'they' are coming for everything 'we' stand for and use the symbol to identify each other as brothers in this 'battle' against 'liberal media.' It's far easier to understand how that makes people think they are racist than it is to envision their efforts convincing anyone a truth about secession and federalism.

It's happening here like it occurred in Russia. Statists are going to hang their opponents with the rope that they are given. This has nothing to do with White Pride or other ridiculous assertions.

The main Soviet censorship body, Glavlit, was employed not only to eliminate any undesirable printed materials, but also "to ensure that the correct ideological spin was put on every published item". Telling anything against the "Party line" was punished by imprisonment or through punitive psychiatry.

[wizardwatson]

Yup. He's going to give it to us good on Friday.

I'm watching SCOTUS too. The orders will be given Thursday as I understand it. Gay marriage is also pending. It has to be Thursday or Monday for both those big cases as those are the only two days they have on schedule to give orders/opinions and Monday is the last day of SCOTUS session.

A lot of crazy alignment. Huge solar storm we're passing through right now actually knocked out the 4G signal on AT&T service for everyone in a certain already-weak signal spot in our part of our office building for last couple days. Just started working again. A lot of online chatter about the huge solar storm that happened a couple days before Fukushima.

Anyway, just craziness all this month really.

[nayjevin]

Have you ever thought that it is not about "showing people the 'true' meaning behind the symbol" but about honoring ones forebears? If people wish to remain ignorant let them. This is about those that use this symbol to remember the sacrifice of those that came before that fought for hearth and home against an invading army that wished to subjugate them to it's laws. What should they move onto? What is left?

There's nothing stopping them from doing that. But you don't honor your forebears with an outward expression, outward expressions are for advertising/attention. And you don't use taxpayer money to use offensive symbols.

It's been better said by others in this thread. It's dumb and there's no good solution. Slavery is dumb, people back then were dumb, the north was dumb, lincoln was dumb, political correctness is dumb, racism is dumb, and using government to enforce opinions is dumb.

[Ronin Truth]

Well, in the words of the anti-confederates, your side lost, so you don't get to be in the discussion anymore.

EVERYONE LOST.

[mit26chell]

I just wanna know why so many people, including some people here, are so obsessed over some stupid piece of cloth. Flags are stupid and mean nothing. Burn them all.

[wizardwatson]

I just wanna know why so many people, including some people here, are so obsessed over some stupid piece of cloth. Flags are stupid and mean nothing. Burn them all.

Yes, and the Nazi's were just burning paper. I mean who cares?

It's the psychological implications of erasing truth and replacing it with something else.

I'm sure there were similar discussions about book burning. Who cares?

Racist Whites, are the new Evil Jews.

[r3volution 3.0]

When defending a symbol, there is a law of diminishing returns in effect as to success of showing people the 'true' meaning behind the symbol. At some point, when symbols are lost, it becomes a better proposition to move on.

If we invented a new symbol for states rights, that too would soon fall under the PC-axe.

It's not the symbol as such to which they object, it's the idea which it represents.

Put up the Gadsen flag as a replacement and watch, that too will soon be called racist, or sexist, or whatever they need to call it to discredit the idea which it really represents.

To retreat before each of these attacks is finally to have no way to express our ideas at all, which is - of course - their goal.

And note that what applies to visual symbols like the flag applies equally well to words.

This is newspeak in action.

[wizardwatson]

Let the purging of Jews-I mean racists-from our beautiful country commence.

[wizardwatson]

I got an idea. Everyone who isn't racist can wear a patch. To show their solidarity against racism in our homeland.

This will create a sense of brotherhood and togetherness.

[phill4paul]

There's nothing stopping them from doing that. But you don't honor your forebears with an outward expression, outward expressions are for advertising/attention. And you don't use taxpayer money to use offensive symbols.

It's been better said by others in this thread. It's dumb and there's no good solution. Slavery is dumb, people back then were dumb, the north was dumb, lincoln was dumb, political correctness is dumb, racism is dumb, and using government to enforce opinions is dumb.

There was a solution. There was a compromise. It's never going to be enough. And you, and Paul, are fine with it. Let's all move forward into this beautiful world of PC acceptance.

[Carlybee]

I got an idea. Everyone who isn't racist can wear a patch. To show their solidarity against racism in our homeland.

This will create a sense of brotherhood and togetherness.

Let's just all have our own individual flags.

[nayjevin]

If we invented a new symbol for states rights, that too would soon fall under the PC-axe.

To the extent that people who use that symbol simultaneously express views of racism. And to the extent proponents of states rights continue to fail to recognize the obligation to address racial issues and the failures of the south in treatment of blacks, and continue to view that as an annoyance.

The annoyance of political correctness does not hold a candle to the horrors of slavery.

[wizardwatson]

Let's just all have our own individual flags.

Certainly, we want to respect the diversity you as an individual bring to the collective. But the patch shows a committment to non-hatred. By wearing the patch of solidarity we can know that you respect the individuality of others.

You are certainly encouraged to wear your own patch alongside the patch of solidarity and tolerance.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Let's just all have our own individual flags.

BINGO!! My position for years is the entire "flag protocol" is WRONG. They tell us that the flag of the USA must be higher than all other flags displayed. I say that's backward. If I were to fly flags showing my "allegiance" they would be displayed with the Christian flag at the top, the family crest next followed by the state flag and federal flag. Your highest allegiance should be to your creator followed by your allegiance to your family. Any allegiance to fictions should be at the bottom of that pole...

If you follow the flag order you see creation as a basis for flag order. Each entity is "created" by the one above it...

[Ronin Truth]

Let's just all have our own individual flags.