The campaign spent $6 in stamps alone to send me an envelope

[Jeremy]

Well I know they must have some data that shows the return on this is high enough to do it, but it just seems like a big waste of money.

Some back story: a few weeks ago someone from the campaign called me to donate, and I said I would donate again in the near future, but not right now. He asked if I wanted to receive an envelope with a form to fill out. I said don't worry about it, don't waste the mailing expense, I'll do it online anyway.

Today I got a cardboard envelope with a $5.75 stamp on it, and another cardboard envelope inside to send back. It must have cost them almost $10 to send this to me.

Did anyone else receive this?

[libertyplz]

I have not received that particular mailer, but I frequently get the other crap. Maybe the campaign should allow people to buy their way off the mailing list, would probably make a fortune with that!

[mad cow]

Yeah,I got it a few days ago and hadn't opened it yet.I never looked at the stamp before reading this post.

It says Glade Creek Grist Mill with a picture of what I assume is said mill and a price of $5.75.Is that the same stamp on yours?

Sheesh,they totally wasted money on me,I have already donated $2,200.00 since April 7th and plan on maxing out before the end of the quarter,i.e. within the next 8 days,if I never got another email or snail mail from the campaign in my life.

[timosman]

Yeah,I got it a few days ago and hadn't opened it yet.I never looked at the stamp before reading this post.

It says Glade Creek Grist Mill with a picture of what I assume is said mill and a price of $5.75.Is that the same stamp on yours?

Sheesh,they totally wasted money on me,I have already donated $2,200.00 since April 7th and plan on maxing out before the end of the quarter,i.e. within the next 8 days,if I never got another email or snail mail from the campaign in my life.

There is no point in crying over such a small inefficiency.

[Mr.NoSmile]

That six dollars could have fed an entire village! ...Seriously?

[nayjevin]

I have not received that particular mailer, but I frequently get the other crap. Maybe the campaign should allow people to buy their way off the mailing list, would probably make a fortune with that!

That's a great idea!

[Crashland]

I would pay big bucks in order to not receive any campaign mailings or phone calls. It should be a win-win in theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if the data analysis shows that keeping people on the lists still would result in more net cash

[Matt Collins]

Well I know they must have some data that shows the return on this is high enough to do it, but it just seems like a big waste of money.

Some back story: a few weeks ago someone from the campaign called me to donate, and I said I would donate again in the near future, but not right now. He asked if I wanted to receive an envelope with a form to fill out. I said don't worry about it, don't waste the mailing expense, I'll do it online anyway.

Today I got a cardboard envelope with a $5.75 stamp on it, and another cardboard envelope inside to send back. It must have cost them almost $10 to send this to me.

Did anyone else receive this?

You must've given big money to Ron or Rand in the past. Big money is anything over $100.


And yes, they make money off of these. They can get as low as a 1% response rate and still be profitable. I know their direct mail strategies and how it works.

[nayjevin]

You must've given big money to Ron or Rand in the past. Big money is anything over $100.


And yes, they make money off of these. They can get as low as a 1% response rate and still be profitable. I know their direct mail strategies and how it works.

Assuming the mailer is what actually triggers the donation - and that it's a donation that wouldn't have been made otherwise. The opt-out is worth suggesting, but am I correct in assuming that the contract is signed and since the mailing fundraisers have no incentive to allow people to tell them they will donate another way and therefore take them off the list, that it won't happen?

[FriedChicken]

glad to hear it works but stuff like this makes the $5 donors feel worthless.

"great! my entire donation went towards a fancy envelope"

if it's profitable then I guess I want them to continue.
but I do wonder what the trade off is ... it surely has a negative side as well.

[Matt Collins]

To explain a bit about direct mail fundraising....


There is prospecting, and then there is house file mailings. Prospecting is what you send to people who have never given you money before. House file mailing is what you send to people who have donated to your campaign or organization in the past.

The #1 principle in fundraising is that it is always easier to get people to donate to you if they have donated to you in the past. The same way works in for-profit business: it's easier to get current customers to buy more, upsell them, or get them to buy more frequently, than it is to go out and acquire new customers.


So in direct mail they rent a list of people who have donated to similar causes. They they send a prospecting piece to those people. Only 1-2% will respond. But the average donation is usually above $30. Prospecting pieces most of the time will only make a 50-75% ROI. However because Obama is in office, some prospecting has been making well over 100% ROI which is amazing.

That being said, once you have a list of people who have given to you through your prospect mailing, you roll them in to your house file. And then you hit them up again on a regular or frequent basis. After one or two mailings the candidate or organization will begin to make good profit and recoup the costs of the prospect piece to acquire the donor.

This is tedious, and it is not sexy, but it does work; I've done it myself.

[Brian4Liberty]

Assuming the mailer is what actually triggers the donation - and that it's a donation that wouldn't have been made otherwise.

They send you mail, you donate, therefore cause and effect. Or maybe not.

[fr33]

I believe Collins on this mail stuff. It's been talked about a lot. But still... can't they implement something to detect that I have only donated online and have never reciprocated via mail? It's a waste no matter how you frame it. It all goes straight to the trashcan in this house.

Within one week, last week, I got these stacks of paper mailed to me from Rand, C4L, and NAGR. I assume they are using the same company to send this stuff.

[Jeremy]

glad to hear it works but stuff like this makes the $5 donors feel worthless.

"great! my entire donation went towards a fancy envelope"

if it's profitable then I guess I want them to continue.
but I do wonder what the trade off is ... it surely has a negative side as well.

Exactly, I've seen people here literally donate less than this package I got today, which will go right into my trashcan. But thanks I guess to whoever paid for my new envelope.

[timosman]

The obvious question is why the campaign is using mail instead of organizing grassroots for local delivery or even door to door ? Do we need to give more money for USPS ?

[Crashland]

I believe Collins on this mail stuff. It's been talked about a lot. But still... can't they implement something to detect that I have only donated online and have never reciprocated via mail? It's a waste no matter how you frame it. It all goes straight to the trashcan in this house.

Within one week, last week, I got these stacks of paper mailed to me from Rand, C4L, and NAGR. I assume they are using the same company to send this stuff.

Yeah, but probably even out of all the people who always throw out the political mail, if 1 out of 100 of those people randomly decides not to throw it out that one time and they make a generous contribution -- or even if the piece of mail simply puts the idea into their head to donate online as opposed to sending back the envelope, then the whole thing pays off.

One thing I was wondering though, about the online donations, I don't recall a way to set up a recurring payment on Rand's website? Recurring payments, large and small, are goldmines because people forget to cancel and it can make fundraising less streaky.

[idiom]

Yeah, but probably even out of all the people who always throw out the political mail, if 1 out of 100 of those people randomly decides not to throw it out that one time and they make a generous contribution -- or even if the piece of mail simply puts the idea into their head to donate online as opposed to sending back the envelope, then the whole thing pays off.

One thing I was wondering though, about the online donations, I don't recall a way to set up a recurring payment on Rand's website? Recurring payments, large and small, are goldmines because people forget to cancel and it can make fundraising less streaky.

That donation from 1 persons gotta be bigger than $990 then.

[Matt Collins]

I believe Collins on this mail stuff. It's been talked about a lot. But still... can't they implement something to detect that I have only donated online and have never reciprocated via mail? It's a waste no matter how you frame it. It all goes straight to the trashcan in this house.

Within one week, last week, I got these stacks of paper mailed to me from Rand, C4L, and NAGR. I assume they are using the same company to send this stuff.

Although it is very hard to track (correlation vs causation etc) the mail does tend to spur supporters to give online resulting in a net gain, but again, it is hard to calculate.

[timosman]

Although it is very hard to track (correlation vs causation etc) the mail does tend to spur supporters to give online resulting in a net gain, but again, it is hard to calculate.

Let's waste some money just to be on the safe side. Voodoo management. Make sure they also make some viral videos, this will put us ahead of the competition.

[nayjevin]

Am I correct in assuming that the contract is signed and since the mailing fundraisers have no incentive to allow people to tell them they will donate another way and therefore take them off the list, that it won't happen?

Am I correct in assuming that there is no changing the contract now anyway? Direct mail fundraising company has no incentive to let people opt out?

[presence]

makes the $5 donors feel worthless

hardly. you bought the worms for the fishing trip

[Matt Collins]

Let's waste some money just to be on the safe side.

It's not wasted, they make a return. It's called marketing 101 - you have to spend money to make it.

[nayjevin]

It's not wasted, they make a return. It's called marketing 101 - you have to spend money to make it.

If I spend $10 to make $11, and later realize I could have made $11 by spending $5, that's the waste we're talking about.

[presence]

I worked at a collection agency for a brief time when I was younger.

We made sure collection letters got to the debtors door on the 1st of every month. We could time it correctly and send it by snail mail; but every collection letter went out overnight express for $10 in a cardboard envelope.

Doing so makes a statement of "you are important" "this is urgent". Its a psychology thing; like a comp at a casino.

I see the "wasteful" flipside... but in bang for your buck reality... overnight express envelopes effectively light an under happy fire; especially wide ones.

[nayjevin]

Poking someone with a stick works too. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.

[jbauer]

The obvious question is why the campaign is using mail instead of organizing grassroots for local delivery or even door to door ? Do we need to give more money for USPS ?

Because you can't "control" the grassroots. They ebb and flow and they do what they want to do when they want to do it. Thats why Jesse Benton gets paid the big bucks....

[timosman]

Because you can't "control" the grassroots. They ebb and flow and they do what they want to do when they want to do it. Thats why Jesse Benton gets paid the big bucks....

Yes, you can. All it takes is an on-line system where everybody gets simple instructions straight on their phone - go canvass these people. I am surprised no one is thinking about this. There is so much untapped potential and we have to pretend Jesse is a genius.

[Warlord]

Do not argue with The Collins. He is always right.

[CPUd]

Mitt's campaign did this in 2012, but not as much for ROI as for getting small donors, because that metric was embarrassingly low. I remember they did a push for donations as low as $5 when it was costing them more than that to process a donation.

[fr33]

Although it is very hard to track (correlation vs causation etc) the mail does tend to spur supporters to give online resulting in a net gain, but again, it is hard to calculate.

Am I wrong to think they are targeting old folks with the mailings. As someone who keeps up with the news, I can't ever bring myself to read all the pages they send out. It's fear-mongering and simpleton bs. You read one paragraph and then the next 2 paragraphs say the same thing worded differently.