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Thread: Canning, and so it begins

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    Dollar general did spend $25 get $5 off. I wore them out that year with coupons but if I recall correctly $25 bought 6 twelve packs. I probably have $250 or so into it.

    Amish paste I got the seeds off eBay. I think I read about them in a gardening magazine.
    That's pretty cheap.. I think they're easily double that here.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    Where do you live? I'm in tn. I still start mine in a greenhouse. I think with tomatoes you pretty much have to start em inside somewhere.
    Netherlands, 53 degrees north. Pretty far up North although it doesn't usually freeze for months on end here. Usually a few weeks only. Summers are short and springs are on the cool side. But generally speaking it doesn't get hot here long enough for tomatoes to grow well without a greenhouse (not just starting them).
    "I am a bird"



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    That's pretty cheap.. I think they're easily double that here.
    I haven't bought them in several years. I found a picture online that shows they were $7.75/12 pack of pints in 2014. I'll stop by one and see what they are going for this year. But that $4.50 for pints and $5.50 for quarts sounds about right for 2008ish 2009ish. I'll have to give my wife a hard time. I still have several packs of them sitting in their boxes. I'll have to show her the price increase since we bought them.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Netherlands, 53 degrees north. Pretty far up North although it doesn't usually freeze for months on end here. Usually a few weeks only. Summers are short and springs are on the cool side. But generally speaking it doesn't get hot here long enough for tomatoes to grow well without a greenhouse (not just starting them).
    53 degrees puts you at Edmonton Canada's "northness" I can imagine growing would be difficult. I grew up in Minnesota but Minneapolis is still only at 44 degrees or 620 miles South of where you're trying to make a go at it. What is your growing season? June 1 - September 1?

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    53 degrees puts you at Edmonton Canada's "northness" I can imagine growing would be difficult. I grew up in Minnesota but Minneapolis is still only at 44 degrees or 620 miles South of where you're trying to make a go at it. What is your growing season? June 1 - September 1?
    Depends on the type of crop. Generally speaking the growing season ends around the end of September/early October. When it starts.. late April/early May -ish, depending on that years climate.

    This year is pretty much the most crap summer ever. I remember in the 90's we used to have heatwave after heatwave.. Temps in the 90's for weeks. We haven't had any of that in the last decade. This year we've had one day over 80F so far. Today it's 57F MAXIMUM, AND THEY CALL THIS SUMMER. Crazy stuff. All we got from 'climate change' here was more wind, less winter and less summer. It's either fall or spring here.. Meaning; sunny but cold or lots of wind and rainy. /end of rant.
    "I am a bird"

  7. #35
    You don't get many heat units at 80 degrees. I'd say you're not growing any corn. Even tomatoes would be difficult. You could heat "grow" pad them to start them out, but I doubt you'd get the big yields. I guess thats why they're using greenhouses. Could you set up a small one? There seems to be more and more hitting the market for the individual grower at a reasonable price point these days. (for those who don't know what Im talking about: https://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/corn...heatunits.html)

    We get the whole global cooling/warming/climate change crap all the time. You've actually seen it get colder which is interesting. I've also heard as the Artic ice melts that it screws with the ocean currents which is what allegedly started the little-ice age of 1600-1700s and froze my beloved Vikings out of Greenland.



    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Depends on the type of crop. Generally speaking the growing season ends around the end of September/early October. When it starts.. late April/early May -ish, depending on that years climate.

    This year is pretty much the most crap summer ever. I remember in the 90's we used to have heatwave after heatwave.. Temps in the 90's for weeks. We haven't had any of that in the last decade. This year we've had one day over 80F so far. Today it's 57F MAXIMUM, AND THEY CALL THIS SUMMER. Crazy stuff. All we got from 'climate change' here was more wind, less winter and less summer. It's either fall or spring here.. Meaning; sunny but cold or lots of wind and rainy. /end of rant.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    You don't get many heat units at 80 degrees. I'd say you're not growing any corn. Even tomatoes would be difficult. You could heat "grow" pad them to start them out, but I doubt you'd get the big yields. I guess thats why they're using greenhouses. Could you set up a small one? There seems to be more and more hitting the market for the individual grower at a reasonable price point these days. (for those who don't know what Im talking about: https://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/corn...heatunits.html)


    Cooler summers, yes. But also warmer winters. More crappy in-between weather.

    I have never seen a farmer here grow tomatoes outside of a greenhouse.

    People do grow maize here, lots of it actually but it's for cattle feed. Around where I live there's a lot of tulips grown for export, cabbage, potatoes, kale, rapeseed, carrots, brussel sprouts, onions, garlic, rye and wheat. I think that's pretty much what is commonly grown around here, with good yields I might add. All of this is on a rotation usually with growing grass to feed dairy cows. Huh ? Thanks to 'scientists' farmers are discouraged from letting their cows graze themselves because, they say, that's bad for the climate. Because cows produce greenhouse gasses... These are the same people that want you to believe that pesticides aren't bad for you and that organic agriculture is 'bad for the world' because the population will rise indefinitely and organic agriculture 'can't feed the world'. In my experience these people just parrot the industry line. (which is why I especially like canning... nothing like homegrown food, sadly we're already overpopulated here and if you buy a house the land it sits on is frequently worth more than the house itself. )
    Last edited by luctor-et-emergo; 06-23-2015 at 11:33 AM.
    "I am a bird"

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I wonder how Pusa Asita carrots will can...

    Purple carrots turn kinda brown when they are pressure canned. Not the most appealing color but the flavor of home canned carrots is untouchable.

    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  10. #38
    I grew up on a dairy farm. The cow farting thing is hilarious. There was in the 50-60 million buffalos on the open range along with every other type of ruminate animal doing the exact same thing for millennia. Humans eat meat and consume dairy products. Cows are going to fart regardless if they eat grasses on the open range or other forages produced by mankind and fed in a confined area. Humans release way more greenhouse gasses then cows ever dreamed of.

    As for organic. I don't buy it. I went to an Agriculture college. I have many friends that are "organic farmers". Its literately a marketing scheme top to bottom. On a limited basis I use pesticides, herbicides as well as fertilizer on my garden. I know what I put on. I know when and how long before its safe for consumption. I feed it to my family without and worries. I use them responsibly and know what they can and cannot do. I've seen people do more damage to their environment "keeping up with the jones's" on their lawns. Farmers are not out there to hurt people or their land its not in their economic interest to do so.

    Lets take roundup for an example. If you are roundup'ing a 500 acre field adding even 0.10 ounces/acre over the required amount is a significant dollar figure. If the farmer put on even 1 more pound of nitrogen on their land then they needed, not only can it be harmful to the water but it would be quite costly. Yet the home owner can go to the Home Depot and buy all the fertilizer and non-restricted use chemicals they want and answer to no one on how, when or where they use them. I've seen city workers putting roundup on by the gallons because they have no knowledge of how it works and what it actually takes to be effective.

    Does anyone here even know what 10-10-10 fertilizer means without looking it up on the internet? How many pounds or bags of it does your lawn need and how to do calculate that? When is the right time to apply it? Did you test your soil to actually figure out what you're deficient in or did you just buy it because you neighbor said it worked good for them?

    I'll use an organic method if it works. I've seen several "organic chemicals" that are far more dangerous to humans then their traditional counterparts. I don't mind the use of GMO's. The use of GMO's doesn't happen in a vacuum. If GMOs are being used there is likely a pest, weed, nutritional deficiency or similar that they are addressing. If you are able to address them by using genes from another plant species and thus decrease (sometimes dramatically) the use of other potentially harmful substances is that not a win?

    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Cooler summers, yes. But also warmer winters. More crappy in-between weather.

    I have never seen a farmer here grow tomatoes outside of a greenhouse.

    People do grow maize here, lots of it actually but it's for cattle feed. Around where I live there's a lot of tulips grown for export, cabbage, potatoes, kale, rapeseed, carrots, brussel sprouts, onions, garlic, rye and wheat. I think that's pretty much what is commonly grown around here, with good yields I might add. All of this is on a rotation usually with growing grass to feed dairy cows. Huh ? Thanks to 'scientists' farmers are discouraged from letting their cows graze themselves because, they say, that's bad for the climate. Because cows produce greenhouse gasses... These are the same people that want you to believe that pesticides aren't bad for you and that organic agriculture is 'bad for the world' because the population will rise indefinitely and organic agriculture 'can't feed the world'. In my experience these people just parrot the industry line. (which is why I especially like canning... nothing like homegrown food, sadly we're already overpopulated here and if you buy a house the land it sits on is frequently worth more than the house itself. )

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    I grew up on a dairy farm. The cow farting thing is hilarious. There was in the 50-60 million buffalos on the open range along with every other type of ruminate animal doing the exact same thing for millennia. Humans eat meat and consume dairy products. Cows are going to fart regardless if they eat grasses on the open range or other forages produced by mankind and fed in a confined area. Humans release way more greenhouse gasses then cows ever dreamed of.
    Yep.

    As for organic. I don't buy it. I went to an Agriculture college. I have many friends that are "organic farmers". Its literately a marketing scheme top to bottom. On a limited basis I use pesticides, herbicides as well as fertilizer on my garden. I know what I put on. I know when and how long before its safe for consumption. I feed it to my family without and worries. I use them responsibly and know what they can and cannot do. I've seen people do more damage to their environment "keeping up with the jones's" on their lawns. Farmers are not out there to hurt people or their land its not in their economic interest to do so.
    Amen.. I don't like the organic certification schemes. I do like 'organic' agriculture. But it should be knowledge based, not regulation based. Best practice for organics is vastly different imo than what is currently normal.

    Lets take roundup for an example. If you are roundup'ing a 500 acre field adding even 0.10 ounces/acre over the required amount is a significant dollar figure. If the farmer put on even 1 more pound of nitrogen on their land then they needed, not only can it be harmful to the water but it would be quite costly. Yet the home owner can go to the Home Depot and buy all the fertilizer and non-restricted use chemicals they want and answer to no one on how, when or where they use them. I've seen city workers putting roundup on by the gallons because they have no knowledge of how it works and what it actually takes to be effective.
    I don't like what modern farming is turning into. Organic farming has the exact same problem really. I don't like factory farms and I don't like the equivalent in regular agriculture. What I'm amazed by though is that for instance organic dairy farmer here make a better living on average than the average large scale dairy farmer. Even though the large scale farmer has 5-10 times more cows. Same number of employees.

    Does anyone here even know what 10-10-10 fertilizer means without looking it up on the internet? How many pounds or bags of it does your lawn need and how to do calculate that? When is the right time to apply it? Did you test your soil to actually figure out what you're deficient in or did you just buy it because you neighbor said it worked good for them?
    No I don't have to look that up. They are NPK values but it's important to know whether they are values that are directly proportional to N P and K or if they are noted by means of K2O and P2O5. If you have had a little bit of essential chemistry and know a slight bit about botany, then calculating these things is a piece of cake. I don't often test soil but it happens. Generally speaking looking at plants gives me a good insight as to what is going on in the soil. If I had several acres of crops that my livelihood depended on, I'd test frequently. Obviously.

    I'll use an organic method if it works. I've seen several "organic chemicals" that are far more dangerous to humans then their traditional counterparts. I don't mind the use of GMO's. The use of GMO's doesn't happen in a vacuum. If GMOs are being used there is likely a pest, weed, nutritional deficiency or similar that they are addressing. If you are able to address them by using genes from another plant species and thus decrease (sometimes dramatically) the use of other potentially harmful substances is that not a win?
    My problem with GMO's is the patents. I don't think living things should be patentable. It is forcing all the small seed companies out of business, not because they are not competitive when it comes to producing quality seeds but because they do not have the funds to hire armies of lawyers. Here in the Netherlands we produce something like a quarter or more of the worlds seeds, we're good at that. We have a system here where producers get rights of production on their variety BUT, any other producer of seeds is free to use those seeds for breeding. This system has worked really well for the development of new varieties, as is evidenced by our market position. Patents ruin it and while they may give a short boost to the development of new varieties, eventually that will backfire.
    "I am a bird"

  12. #40
    I don't disagree with anything you've wrote and I come from the production side of life. Well said. My folks still have a 100 cow dairy, which by todays standard is a micro-farm.

    Fyi, the questions weren't aimed at you. It was more of a general discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Yep.


    Amen.. I don't like the organic certification schemes. I do like 'organic' agriculture. But it should be knowledge based, not regulation based. Best practice for organics is vastly different imo than what is currently normal.


    I don't like what modern farming is turning into. Organic farming has the exact same problem really. I don't like factory farms and I don't like the equivalent in regular agriculture. What I'm amazed by though is that for instance organic dairy farmer here make a better living on average than the average large scale dairy farmer. Even though the large scale farmer has 5-10 times more cows. Same number of employees.


    No I don't have to look that up. They are NPK values but it's important to know whether they are values that are directly proportional to N P and K or if they are noted by means of K2O and P2O5. If you have had a little bit of essential chemistry and know a slight bit about botany, then calculating these things is a piece of cake. I don't often test soil but it happens. Generally speaking looking at plants gives me a good insight as to what is going on in the soil. If I had several acres of crops that my livelihood depended on, I'd test frequently. Obviously.


    My problem with GMO's is the patents. I don't think living things should be patentable. It is forcing all the small seed companies out of business, not because they are not competitive when it comes to producing quality seeds but because they do not have the funds to hire armies of lawyers. Here in the Netherlands we produce something like a quarter or more of the worlds seeds, we're good at that. We have a system here where producers get rights of production on their variety BUT, any other producer of seeds is free to use those seeds for breeding. This system has worked really well for the development of new varieties, as is evidenced by our market position. Patents ruin it and while they may give a short boost to the development of new varieties, eventually that will backfire.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    How does that work out quality wise ? I've been under the impression that even though food remains safe to eat the quality will slowly deteriorate when it comes to taste.
    That's just because y'all Europeans use retort pouches instead of proper glass jars.

    Yeah, it'll remain safe to eat for a lot longer than 5 years. You don't really notice a deterioration in flavor and texture until about 7-8 years in, and then the flavor doesn't go BAD, it just goes away.Likewise the texture. After about 10 years a lot of things will just be mush.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    I don't disagree with anything you've wrote and I come from the production side of life. Well said. My folks still have a 100 cow dairy, which by todays standard is a micro-farm.

    Fyi, the questions weren't aimed at you. It was more of a general discussion.
    Thank you, and don't worry, I like answering questions from time to time.. I like good discussions even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    That's just because y'all Europeans use retort pouches instead of proper glass jars.

    Yeah, it'll remain safe to eat for a lot longer than 5 years. You don't really notice a deterioration in flavor and texture until about 7-8 years in, and then the flavor doesn't go BAD, it just goes away.Likewise the texture. After about 10 years a lot of things will just be mush.
    Wish I could buy retort pouches here.. They are nice for homemade MRE's with decent food, for when I go fishing or camping. Apart from that I like to stay away from heated in plastics.
    "I am a bird"

  16. #43
    I've always been curious of canning and what benefits it has. How does it affect the taste? What about budget? It seems like it requires too much effort too. Any inputs anyone?

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by alivecream View Post
    I've always been curious of canning and what benefits it has. How does it affect the taste? What about budget? It seems like it requires too much effort too. Any inputs anyone?
    First and foremost you know where your food comes from. A couple packages of beans for instance costs less then $10. On top of that you've got some jars at say $0.65 cents each. (but they're reusable). You got lids at .05-.10 each they're disposable. Then you've got the gas used to can them. Maybe $1-$3 per batch. I can do 18 per batch. So if we use $2 that's $0.11 per jar. All you have left is time and some canning salt. So if you buy everything this year you'd be in the $1 or so per jar. Every year after that you'd be in the 20-25 cents a jar. I think you can get a can of veggies at Aldi's for $.59. I don't do it to save money though, I do it to produce my own food, my own way and get great pride out of doing so. Doing all your hunting and gathering at a grocery store gets old.

    If you save your bean seeds they're free after the first year. Your jars are good forever until you drop them.

    I prefer my own canning to store bought taste although with veggies its not as noticeable. I think my canned tomatoes: salsa's, pasta sauces, ketchup, BBQ etc etc blows the doors off of store bought stuff.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    Where do you live? I'm in tn. I still start mine in a greenhouse. I think with tomatoes you pretty much have to start em inside somewhere.

    If you can transplant them without disturbing the roots and burning them then the more time the better. I'm up in central Wisconsin and we over the past few years have started planting tomatoes from seed in the garden. We are getting our first ripe fruits a little later but the plants put out such an impressive root system and produce so many flowers and fruits in the mid to late season that we don't feel our overall harvest has been negatively effected.

    Having said that, we'd like to buy some soil blockers as described in Eliot Coleman's book The New Organic Grower and work on getting the best of both worlds.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    First and foremost you know where your food comes from. A couple packages of beans for instance costs less then $10. On top of that you've got some jars at say $0.65 cents each. (but they're reusable). You got lids at .05-.10 each they're disposable. Then you've got the gas used to can them. Maybe $1-$3 per batch. I can do 18 per batch. So if we use $2 that's $0.11 per jar. All you have left is time and some canning salt. So if you buy everything this year you'd be in the $1 or so per jar. Every year after that you'd be in the 20-25 cents a jar. I think you can get a can of veggies at Aldi's for $.59. I don't do it to save money though, I do it to produce my own food, my own way and get great pride out of doing so. Doing all your hunting and gathering at a grocery store gets old.

    If you save your bean seeds they're free after the first year. Your jars are good forever until you drop them.

    I prefer my own canning to store bought taste although with veggies its not as noticeable. I think my canned tomatoes: salsa's, pasta sauces, ketchup, BBQ etc etc blows the doors off of store bought stuff.
    Any reason you choose canning over freezing?

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by alivecream View Post
    I've always been curious of canning and what benefits it has. How does it affect the taste? What about budget? It seems like it requires too much effort too. Any inputs anyone?
    Precisely what I have in mind since I am afraid that it may be too much to even start.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Any reason you choose canning over freezing?
    Storage. The quality drop in tomatoes isn't much. Vs sweet corn where we freeze all of it because theres a huge drop in flavor. Even on green beans, frozen taste better but not as dramatic as sweetcorn. I've got 2 deep freezers full of cow, pig, chicken, turkey and lamb. I can't keep them in jars so thats where some of it needs to go.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by popsnap View Post
    Precisely what I have in mind since I am afraid that it may be too much to even start.
    Don't start without SOME money. Start small. A presure canner from Walmart is what $30-50 now days? I've got an American Canner that cost $200ish and its worth every penny but I didn't start there.

    I've seen the Presto canners at goodwill. If you do the flea markets you can pick up jars pretty cheaply.

    Don't do it to save money though. Do it because its enjoyable.

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