Rand's WSJ Op-Ed: Blow Up the Tax Code and Start Over

[rich34]

Damn, it'd be great if the fair tax crowd was around today, (maybe they are?) similar to how they were in 2008 for Mike Huckabee. That fair tax proposal is truthfully what kept Huckabee alive financially. Since Huckabee was the first to jump out in support of this proposal along with pushing it hard in his platform they dumped millions of dollars into his campaign. The funny thing is Rand's plan blows that plan going around back then plum out of the water, absolutely no comparison. So here's to hoping the fair tax/anti tax crowd really jump out and support Rand financially for this bold proposal. If Rand could get team Beck to start pushing him the same way they have been Cruz I think that would really go a long way in helping Rand to peel away the support from Cruz to go along with his already solid support. Even if it's just soft support a 3% bump in the polls from Iowa, NH, to nationally would go a long way in building up momentum and hopefully force fox news into putting Rand into "their top 3" category. This proposal alone may just be the start of setting Rand on an upward trajectory in the polls all over. Perception is everything, and it would be a great time for Rand to start climbing in the polls right before the first debate.

[Jackie Moon]

Damn, it'd be great if the fair tax crowd was around today, (maybe they are?) similar to how they were in 2008 for Mike Huckabee. That fair tax proposal is truthfully what kept Huckabee alive financially. Since Huckabee was the first to jump out in support of this proposal along with pushing it hard in his platform they dumped millions of dollars into his campaign. The funny thing is Rand's plan blows that plan going around back then plum out of the water, absolutely no comparison. So here's to hoping the fair tax/anti tax crowd really jump out and support Rand financially for this bold proposal. If Rand could get team Beck to start pushing him the same way they have been Cruz I think that would really go a long way in helping Rand to peel away the support from Cruz to go along with his already solid support. Even if it's just soft support a 3% bump in the polls from Iowa, NH, to nationally would go a long way in building up momentum and hopefully force fox news into putting Rand into "their top 3" category. This proposal alone may just be the start of setting Rand on an upward trajectory in the polls all over. Perception is everything, and it would be a great time for Rand to start climbing in the polls right before the first debate.

Agree. This is very popular and can give him that extra boost going in to the beginning of the campaign and debate season.

I mean... Herman Cain was in the lead for awhile last time and his whole platform was just "9-9-9".

[GunnyFreedom]

this plan would seriously change my life. Just as an ordinary person doing what I do, having never been involved in politics. The way I am self employed; my burdens to market entry would just fall away. I can just see the richer soil.

[GunnyFreedom]

I like it because it is a straight attempt to write an original Constitutional principle into the current paradigm. The apportioning of taxes to the States (the States collect XYZ tax and pay their portion to the federal government according to the number of population in your State.) and leave the State to determine how it collects revenue.

The idea was "balanced equally on all persons." In today's withholding state and wage taxation nobody really knows where the balance lands. By restoring an original Constitutional principle into existence within a currently-written Constitutional paradigm, I find myself thoroughly impressed. If carried out, this could fully prepare the economy and the nation as a whole to repeal the 16thA and restore State apportioning. The restoration of State apportioning will make the States the king governments in America again.

[chronicaust]

Call me ignorant lol but can someone compare and contrast this to the FAIRtax? I am having a conversation with my dad about it and I'm not sure how to differentiate the two. I understand one is a sales tax and one is basically an income tax for individuals and businesses.

[r3volution 3.0]

Damn, it'd be great if the fair tax crowd was around today, (maybe they are?) similar to how they were in 2008 for Mike Huckabee. That fair tax proposal is truthfully what kept Huckabee alive financially. Since Huckabee was the first to jump out in support of this proposal along with pushing it hard in his platform they dumped millions of dollars into his campaign. The funny thing is Rand's plan blows that plan going around back then plum out of the water, absolutely no comparison. So here's to hoping the fair tax/anti tax crowd really jump out and support Rand financially for this bold proposal. If Rand could get team Beck to start pushing him the same way they have been Cruz I think that would really go a long way in helping Rand to peel away the support from Cruz to go along with his already solid support. Even if it's just soft support a 3% bump in the polls from Iowa, NH, to nationally would go a long way in building up momentum and hopefully force fox news into putting Rand into "their top 3" category. This proposal alone may just be the start of setting Rand on an upward trajectory in the polls all over. Perception is everything, and it would be a great time for Rand to start climbing in the polls right before the first debate.

Team Beck were having mental orgasms over this tax plan today.



...meanwhile, the SS Cruz is taking on water due to TPA et al.

I can feel the conservative-tea-party energy swinging in Rand's favor.

[puppetmaster]

The text says it eliminates the payroll tax, so that's the 6.2% for social security and 1.45% for Medicare (for the employee). This is one of the main differentiators of this plan compared to other flat tax proposals. Eliminating the payroll tax and the first $50k income exemption are what benefits the median US household, which has an income around $50k. This means that median household pays $0 taxes based on income with this plan compared to roughly $6200 (12% of income) currently. This is a 100% savings on income taxes.

Here's various savings based on some income amounts:

$25k income: 8% taxes now, 0% taxes with Rand = 100% saving
$50k income: 12% taxes now, 0% taxes with Rand = 100% saving
$75k income: 16% taxes now, 5% taxes with Rand = 69% saving
$100k income: 18% taxes now, 7% taxes with Rand = 59% saving
$125k income: 20% taxes now, 9% taxes with Rand = 56% saving
$150k income: 21% taxes now, 10% taxes with Rand = 54% saving
$175k income: 22% taxes now, 10% taxes with Rand = 53% saving
$200k income: 23% taxes now, 11% taxes with Rand = 52% saving

There won't be much change in how much is withheld each paycheck in that employers already handle exemptions/deductions based on the allowances people file on their W-4. I.e., there will not be a jump in take home pay because each paycheck's withholding already factors in the "first $50k tax free."

actually he says workers will see a big increase in their paychecks.

[Krugminator2]

I think the structure of this plan is probably ideal for extracting revenue while having the fewest distortions. A consumption tax paired with and income tax makes sense. It is also good that it excites conservatives.

I do wish Rand would tone down the tax cuts as a stimulus. That is pure Keynes as I and everyone who has ever taken a macroeconomics course learned. Milton Friedman didn't buy into all of this. The spending is either paid for by taxes and inflation or investment in treasuries that crowds out private sector investment.

[chronicaust]

I think the structure of this plan is probably ideal for extracting revenue while having the fewest distortions. A consumption tax paired with and income tax makes sense. It is also good that it excites conservatives.

I do wish Rand would tone down the tax cuts as a stimulus. That is pure Keynes as I and everyone who has ever taken a macroeconomics course learned. Milton Friedman didn't buy into all of this. The spending is either paid for by taxes and inflation or investment in treasuries that crowds out private sector investment.

It's okay as long as the voters buy it. But I mean in reality if the government cuts taxes and spending it's leaving more money in the private sector, which is always a good thing.

[Brian4Liberty]

It's not for the bankers, it's for the mortgagees (who vote, you know). That deduction is extremely popular.

Consumers rarely lobby government for their favorite products to be tax deductible. On the other hand, business interests are constantly lobbying for government to give them special treatment.

[r3volution 3.0]

I do wish Rand would tone down the tax cuts as a stimulus. That is pure Keynes as I and everyone who has ever taken a macroeconomics course learned. Milton Friedman didn't buy into all of this. The spending is either paid for by taxes and inflation or investment in treasuries that crowds out private sector investment.

Except that Rand is pairing this with major spending cuts.

...he hasn't come out with a specific proposal this year, but every year since he's been in office he's proposed something in the $500 billion range.

I expect he'll put out a new budget in coming weeks/months.

[Jackie Moon]

[r3volution 3.0]

^^^

[Vanguard101]

Anyone know where I can find the complete plan?

[Krugminator2]

Except that Rand is pairing this with major spending cuts.

...he hasn't come out with a specific proposal this year, but every year since he's been in office he's proposed something in the $500 billion range.

I expect he'll put out a new budget in coming weeks/months.

I get that. You are right. But my point is the good stimulative effects only happen with spending cuts. The names Rand is dropping aren't really as interested in budget cuts as Rand is.

That said. It looks like it is resonating. That is most important.

[EBounding]

This is a great positive message that will appeal to a lot of people. It's one of the main things the campaign has been missing.

[r3volution 3.0]

I get that. You are right. But my point is the good stimulative effects only happen with spending cuts. The names Rand is dropping aren't really as interested in budget cuts as Rand is.

That said. It looks like it is resonating. That is most important.

I hear ya, and I'm sure you're quite aware of Rand's propensity for budget cutting (my statement was more for the lurkers' benefit...).

We're on the same page.

Now, let us look forward like a hungry dog to his budget!

[r3volution 3.0]

Anyone know where I can find the complete plan?

I don't believe it's been released yet.

[Crashland]

How does his facebook video have over 1 million views, but his youtube video which was only released a few hours later, has less than 5,000?

[georgiaboy]

In the video, Rand says this is only the first step in his overall plan to defeat the Washington Machine.

Ergo, this is just the beginning - there's more to come!

[Uriah]

How to be like Rand Paul:

1. Kick ass
2. Take names later

Actually, Rand won't kick your ass unless you try to kick his. He won't take your name either. Unless, he has a warrant.

this plan would seriously change my life. Just as an ordinary person doing what I do, having never been involved in politics. The way I am self employed; my burdens to market entry would just fall away. I can just see the richer soil.

I'm thinking of all the years I've worked and the thousands I could have saved and invested. Perhaps, I would have started my own business buy now. Make it so Rand.

Anyone know where I can find the complete plan?

Ditto. I want the details. Although, I'm sure he is trying to brand himself and the plan before people get caught up in details and pick it apart. Smart.

[GunnyFreedom]

“And we eliminate the payroll tax.”

[GunnyFreedom]

outright applause from...who is that guy "Deacy?"

[Crashland]

Not sure why I noticed this, but in Rand's tax video, the kid/laptop clip at 0:19 and of the flag at 1:12 are the same clips from this 2012 Gingrich ad at 0:44 and 0:04, respectively

[GunnyFreedom]

Not sure why I noticed this, but in Rand's tax video, the kid/laptop clip at 0:19 and of the flag at 1:12 are the same clips from this 2012 Gingrich ad at 0:44 and 0:04, respectively

Welcome to multimedia and professional ad production.

[jurgs01]

Why does the RPF's occasionally freeze up and then save multiple duplicate posts?

Methinks your connection or computer freezes up and you submit the same page multiple times.

[phill4paul]

Methinks your connection or computer freezes up and you submit the same page multiple times.

No and yes. Lately it has not been at the user end. Otherwise it would happen on other forums. Which it doesn't.

[Crashland]

No and yes. Lately it has not been at the user end. Otherwise it would happen on other forums. Which it doesn't.

The freezing is on the RPF side. The multiple posts is on the user side when you try resubmitting or refreshing the page in the middle of said freeze :-P

[Jamesiv1]

I want to see someone actually blow up 70,000 pages of tax code.

C'mon, youtubers!

A box of copy paper is 5k sheets (10 reams @ 500 sheets/ream), so 14 boxes for 70k pages. Easy-peasy.

That would make an awesome campaign ad.

[phill4paul]

The freezing is on the RPF side. The multiple posts is on the user side when you try resubmitting or refreshing the page in the middle of said freeze :-P

Negative. Without resubmitting or refreshing the timeout ends in multiple posts.