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Thread: Rand staffer botches tweet about burden of proof. Outrage ensues (tweet deleted)

  1. #1

    Rand staffer botches tweet about burden of proof. Outrage ensues (tweet deleted)

    ‘Not how it works': @RandPaul takes heat for botched tweet about burden of proof; Update: Tweet deleted


    You want to re-read that and get back to us? @RandPaul

    Chuck Long (@trueholygoat) June 10, 2015

    Sen. Rand Paul briefly used Twitter tonight to share some information about a new piece of legislation he’s cosponsoring. Things were going well enough for a while:

    There is only one way to describe detaining a U.S. citizen indefinitely and denying them a trial by jury: Un-American. (1/6)

    — Dr. Rand Paul (@RandPaul) June 10, 2015

    If the government can arrest you, throw you in prison, & strip away due process, our Republic is sliding into dangerous territory. (2/6)

    — Dr. Rand Paul (@RandPaul) June 10, 2015

    That’s why I’m introducing – with Sen. Mike Lee & others – the Due Process Guarantee to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). (3/6)

    — Dr. Rand Paul (@RandPaul) June 10, 2015

    It blocks indefinite detention of Americans without being charged & denying them a jury trial unless there is a vote in Congress. (4/6)

    — Dr. Rand Paul (@RandPaul) June 10, 2015

    Until this happened:

    I believe you and I were endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights. That includes the right to prove your innocence. (5/6)

    — Dr. Rand Paul (@RandPaul) June 10, 2015

    Tweeters couldn’t help but feel like something was a bit … not quite right:

    [Sound of every criminal defense lawyer in the country cringing at once] https://t.co/tRAwJfoEj9

    — Dan McLaughlin (@baseballcrank) June 10, 2015

    It certainly came off as pretty cringeworthy.

    Nope. https://t.co/ONcDosNpns

    — Charles C. W. Cooke (@charlescwcooke) June 10, 2015

    Just no: https://t.co/nk9b56Nxpy

    — Justen Charters (@JustenCharters) June 10, 2015

    There’s a chance you have this wrong. Like EXACTLY wrong. https://t.co/gBJRur8t3H

    — Ben Howe (@BenHowe) June 10, 2015

    Whoops. Don't think this is right. https://t.co/GvhWBbuitP

    — Kimberly C (@conkc2) June 10, 2015

    I get what he's saying but….no. That's not how it works. https://t.co/bZ3l7F0evi

    — Drew McCoy (@DrewMTips) June 10, 2015

    Agree with the intent, but this is not how it works. You're presumed innocent. https://t.co/vtEVQIxkLo

    — Nathan Wurtzel (@NathanWurtzel) June 10, 2015

    Yep. That’s how it works, last time we checked.

    @RandPaul burden of proof is on the State. Never should a citizen need to "prove" their innocence.

    — J Roger Driscoll (@JRogerDriscoll) June 10, 2015

    @RandPaul come on Rand. Innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the state, not the citizen.

    — Matthew Jones (@themattjones) June 10, 2015

    @RandPaul prove innocence? No. You should be ashamed of such a gaffe.

    — Amberlamps (@ArthurNonymous) June 10, 2015

    @RandPaul innocence should be assumed. Guilt should be proven by the accuser.

    — Dallas Beaureagard (@anodynasty) June 10, 2015

    @RandPaul You are doing it wrong! Remember that whole "presumed innocent" thing?

    — Athena (@AthenaTweets) June 10, 2015

    I think you may have that wrong. I’m pretty sure they’re already presumed innocent and the burden is on the state. https://t.co/gBJRur8t3H

    — Ben Howe (@BenHowe) June 10, 2015

    Hi everybody I'm @RandPaul I'm so smart and freedom and constitutiony and stuff and look I have no idea that burden of proof is on accusers!

    — H (@Tark31) June 10, 2015

    @RandPaul Sen. Paul, fire your tweeter. Replace with someone who understands "presumption of innocence" please.

    — MrScience_ (@mrscience_) June 10, 2015

    You just disqualified yourself there, @RandPaul. You don’t know jack about our system. https://t.co/rgHhTRJ7ue #tcot

    — WitCoHE (@E__Strobel) June 10, 2015

    Did he actually disqualify himself? Not necessarily. But when you’re running for president, it helps to maintain the perception that you’re well versed in the subject you’re discussing.

    Is it a mistake? Yes. Does this stuff matter? Sure, he's running to make these points strongly and he should do so accurately.

    — Charles C. W. Cooke (@charlescwcooke) June 10, 2015

    ***

    Update:

    Welp, looks like the tweet’s been deleted. You can still see it above, but here’s a screenshot as well:

    deleted rand paul tweet

    For what it’s worth, looks like Paul’s being a pretty good sport about the initial mistake:

    A member of my staff tweeted something erroneous. Of course you are innocent until proven guilty! (1/2)

    — Dr. Rand Paul (@RandPaul) June 11, 2015

    For the staffer who garbled the concept of innocence, we will presume his innocence until the next staff meeting. (2/2)

    — Dr. Rand Paul (@RandPaul) June 11, 2015



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  3. #2
    Yeah, well "innocent until proven guilty" might be "how it works" in middle-school civics-class textbook land.

    But in the real world? Not so much.

    Hell, in the real world, even being able to actually prove your innocence isn't enough, sometimes ...

    IOW: Rand Paul's staffer was actually closer to the truth of things than all the people "correcting" him/her.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  4. #3
    It's your money that is seized through un-civil forfeiture that you have to prove innocent.

  5. #4
    the correction tweets were hilarious

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    It's your money that is seized through un-civil forfeiture that you have to prove innocent.
    That and taxes. How can the government audit me? Make me present all evidence of income? If they think I've cheated uncle sam, shouldn't they have to prove it and not me proving that I haven't?
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    That and taxes. How can the government audit me? Make me present all evidence of income? If they think I've cheated uncle sam, shouldn't they have to prove it and not me proving that I haven't?
    You sound like your talking about a free man with rights and..stuff.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    You sound like your talking about a free man with rights and..stuff.
    those dont exist

  9. #8
    Wow, the amount of attention these tweets get ;-) Wonder if other government officials are scrutinized the same way ?



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  11. #9
    This brings up a point of the dangers of social media. I think elections are still won by talking to people and not through keyboards. The effort by the team to speak for Rand only allows things like this to happen. This also shows a lack of management which brings up a point of execution as President as well.



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