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Thread: The Counted: People killed by police in the US

  1. #31
    Police will be required to report officer-involved deaths under new US system

    Police departments will be required to give the US justice department full details of deadly incidents involving their officers each quarter, under a new government system for counting killings by police that was influenced by the Guardian.

    Announcing a new program for documenting all “arrest-related deaths”, federal officials said they would actively work to confirm fatal cases seen in media reports and other open sources rather than wait for departments to report them voluntarily.

    The Guardian has been counting the people killed by US law enforcement agencies since 2015. Read their stories and contribute to our ongoing, crowdsourced project

    The methodology of the new system, which aims to replace a discredited count by the FBI, mirrors that of The Counted, an ongoing Guardian effort to document every death caused by law enforcement officers in 2015 and 2016.

    Writing in the Federal Register, Department of Justice officials said their new program should increase transparency around the use of force by police and improve accountability for the actions of individual officers.

    “Accurate and comprehensive accounting of deaths that occur during the process of arrest is critical for law enforcement agencies to demonstrate responsiveness to the citizens and communities they serve,” their notice said.

    The federal government has kept no comprehensive record of killings by police officers, even as a series of controversial deaths set off unrest in cities across the country over the past two years. An annual voluntary count by the FBI of fatal shootings by officers has recorded only about half the true number.

    The new system is being overseen by the department’s bureau of justice statistics (BJS). It would, like the Guardian’s, document deaths caused by physical force, Taser shocks and some vehicle crashes caused by law enforcement in addition to fatal shootings by officers. A Washington Post tally counts fatal shootings by police.

    In their Federal Register article, officials cited their authority under the death in custody reporting act – a law that states local departments must report all deaths in custody to the justice department or lose 10% of their federal funding. The law has been largely ignored since being reauthorized in December 2014.

    The BJS carried out a trial of its new system that monitored deaths between 1 June and 31 August last year. Officials working on the pilot program cited The Counted as an influence on the initiative and a source for its information.

    Officials estimate that this year there will be about 2,100 arrest-related deaths across the US involving 1,066 different police departments. The BJS criteria includes a wide range of deaths including suicides and natural causes. Last year the Guardian counted 1,146 deaths caused by police in narrower terms.

    Under the new government program, all 19,450 American law enforcement agencies will be sent a form by the BJS that requires information on all the department’s arrest-related deaths in the past quarter of the year.

    Deaths that were already noticed in media reports will be listed by the BJS for confirmation or correction by the local departments. Space will be included for the local department to list additional deaths that were not previously noticed. Departments that have seen no arrest-related deaths that quarter will be asked to return “an affirmative zero” saying so.

    A second form seeking extensive information about the circumstances of each death will be sent to the local department responsible. It will require local officials to detail similar data to that logged by The Counted, such as demographic information on every person killed, how the deadly encounter began and whether the person was armed.

    Other forms will be sent to the 685 medical examiner’s and coroner’s offices asking them to also confirm details of deaths that have been noticed in public sources. They, too, will be asked to return forms with details of any other deaths that went unnoticed.

    The BJS ran a previous arrest-related deaths count that was shuttered in April 2014, four months before the issue of killings by police became a national controversy following the fatal shooting of Michael Brown, an unarmed black 18-year-old, in Ferguson, Missouri.

    FBI chief: 'unacceptable' that Guardian has better data on police violence
    James Comey tells crime summit that ‘it’s ridiculous’ Guardian and Washington Post have more information on civilians’ deaths at hands of US police than FBI

    Officials acknowledged in a review of the previous program that its census-style method led to an under-documenting of deaths. They argue that their new “hybrid approach” – proactively seeking out fatal cases using open sources such as news reports, while also asking police to alert them to unnoticed cases – will lead to more comprehensive data.

    .......

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...P=share_btn_tw
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  3. #32




    http://www.choiceandtruth.com/2016/0...ull-after.html

    Walter DeLeon lost a quarter of his skull and has gone partially blind after an evening walk turned into a life changing disaster. … In June of this year, DeLeon, 49, was on his regular evening walk to a nearby park when LAPD Officer Cairo Palacios “feared for his life” and shot him in the head. DeLeon was not armed, he did not attack the officer, nor did he say or do anything that would have been construed by a normal person to be aggressive behavior. However, the dastardly Palacios and his partner perceived ‘imminent danger’ because DeLeon had a towel wrapped around his hand to wipe the sweat from his face on his walk. … running up to an unarmed man and shooting him in the face was ‘within departmental policy’ because Palacios was convinced his life was in danger due to the towel. …
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post




    http://www.choiceandtruth.com/2016/0...ull-after.html

    Walter DeLeon lost a quarter of his skull and has gone partially blind after an evening walk turned into a life changing disaster. … In June of this year, DeLeon, 49, was on his regular evening walk to a nearby park when LAPD Officer Cairo Palacios “feared for his life” and shot him in the head. DeLeon was not armed, he did not attack the officer, nor did he say or do anything that would have been construed by a normal person to be aggressive behavior. However, the dastardly Palacios and his partner perceived ‘imminent danger’ because DeLeon had a towel wrapped around his hand to wipe the sweat from his face on his walk. … running up to an unarmed man and shooting him in the face was ‘within departmental policy’ because Palacios was convinced his life was in danger due to the towel. …
    This is so hard to take-
    There is no spoon.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Police will be required to report officer-involved deaths under new US system
    Bull$#@!.

  7. #35
    951
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    951
    Cops shot this year so far?

    59

    Look for the number of Mundane casualties to increase under Trump.

    BLM and the left have utterly and totally $#@!ed any chance at reform or rolling back the police state or asset forfeiture by couching this in terms of race and "social justice" instead of individual liberty and government heavy handedness.

    Reading comments around the web, I get the impression that now, no matter what abuse you suffer at the hands of cops, you deserved it, and if you dare mention anything about it, you are just a contemptuous special snowflake SJW or uppity ni gger thug.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Reading comments around the web, I get the impression that now, no matter what abuse you suffer at the hands of cops, you deserved it, and if you dare mention anything about it, you are just a contemptuous special snowflake SJW or uppity ni gger thug.
    Yeah well..

    I am other.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  10. #38
    Freedom isn't free folks - it requires a surveillance state, police state, prison state, debt state, theft state, regulation state, authoritarian state to maintain.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  11. #39
    California, Florida among states with highest civilian deaths at hands of police in May

    California, Texas and Florida had the highest number of civilian deaths at the hands of police in May, according to the crowdsourcing site killedbypolice.net.

    The states with the highest rate of deaths per capita include Alaska, Maine and New Mexico.

    Take a look at the latest numbers in the maps below:


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...may/102440040/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  12. #40



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  14. #41
    I know I'm going to get roasted for this but I don't see how keeping track of police killings does any good. If you want better police you need better laws.

    Any of the following would make relations with the police better than a thousand protests:

    Ending the minimum wage.
    Legalizing drugs.
    Privatizing schools.
    Ending discrimination laws.
    Ending welfare.
    Reducing government spending.
    Flattening the tax code.

    Even teensy tiny moves in the right direction would do way more good than protesting. Even a 50 cent reduction in the minimum wage would do more good.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I know I'm going to get roasted for this but I don't see how keeping track of police killings does any good. If you want better police you need better laws.
    Roasted no. Corrected possibly.

    Define "better Laws".
    There are laws against murder,, but it is done by police nationwide.
    It used to be occasional but it's routinely anymore.

    And I don't want better police,, I want less,, and under control.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Roasted no. Corrected possibly.

    Define "better Laws".
    There are laws against murder,, but it is done by police nationwide.
    It used to be occasional but it's routinely anymore.

    And I don't want better police,, I want less,, and under control.
    Maybe "better laws" wasn't the best phrase. Maybe better government is what I meant. Smaller "proper" government that only protects property rights and doesn't violate them. If we only have laws that protect property rights, the police are actually working for us not against us. Plus when you have proper government you are rewarding good behavior and punishing bad behavior so you get more good and less bad.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    If we only have laws that protect property rights, the police are actually working for us not against us.
    NO,, that is simply not true..
    Laws exist and are in place to protect property,

    Police don't protect property..
    Police,, By the definition of Police,, are Enforcers of Control.
    A Wholly Authoritarian concept, that was imported from Europe. (as was socialism).

    Police need to be removed,, and the concept of controlling other people needs to be forgotten.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Police need to be removed,, and the concept of controlling other people needs to be forgotten.
    That's an impossibility. Force exists. As long as force exists there will be police in some form or other. The only option is "good" police or "bad" police.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    That's an impossibility. Force exists. As long as force exists there will be police in some form or other. The only option is "good" police or "bad" police.
    There are no good Control Enforcers.

    Liberty does not need to be Controlled. Free People do not need Control Enforcers.

    Authoritarian Governments Need Police. To maintain Control.
    To Enforce Laws that that the people will not enforce themselves.

    The definition of Police means "To Control".

    There are NO Good Police.. (perhaps some good people got sucked into doing a bad job)

    And there is no place for such in a Free and Open Society.

    The Police State is one of the biggest and most important issues today..
    It is the most immediate and localized problem in this country.

    Last edited by pcosmar; 01-17-2018 at 11:40 AM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  20. #47
    http://killedbypolice.net/

    http://www.newsweek.com/who-killed-police-2017-760870



    The two lower lines should both be ZERO. but the bottom line should never happen. ever. period.
    It is unacceptable to shoot an unarmed person ever,, by anyone,, for any reason. Period.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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