Disney Lays off 250 Tech Workers and Makes Them Train Their Foreign Replacements

[helmuth_hubener]

Do you realize how much of an ignorant, condescending *%&% some people sound like?

Come on, Brian, I'm waiting for your blisteringly rational critique of my position! I'm waiting for you to drive away my gross ignorance by shedding forth the luminescent rays of your enlightenment. I'm so ignorant and stupid, it should be easy. Victory is here for the taking! Molṑn labé! Or as the plebeians say: Bring it on.

[tod evans]

I'll continue doing my part by not spending my money on Disney products....

[helmuth_hubener]

I'll continue doing my part by not spending my money on Disney products....

Your part in.... what, exactly? Your part in preventing IT reorganizations? You are standing strong in solidarity against innovation and change in technology departments? Ooh, that vicious "innovation". We must stop it! Workers of the world, unite!

[tod evans]

Your part in.... what, exactly? Your part in preventing IT reorganizations? You are standing strong in solidarity against innovation and change in technology departments? Ooh, that vicious "innovation". We must stop it! Workers of the world, unite!

I haven't spent my money on Disney stuff in decades and I'm not about to start now...

Maybe them hiring foreigners is enough to convince you to spend money with them but it doesn't sway me...

[helmuth_hubener]

I am just wondering, Tod, exactly what you think you are "doing your part" in by refraining from directly buying from Disney? In what grand cause are you marching as an infantryman?

[tod evans]

I am just wondering, Tod, exactly what you think you are "doing your part" in by refraining from directly buying from Disney? In what grand cause are you marching as an infantryman?

I haven't liked Disney's products for quite some time.

There's no marching or infantry involved.

You've made it quite clear that you actively support global economics but in spite of all your logic and typing you've failed to sway my opinion on them. If I have a choice for something I need I will always buy local first even if it cost more and that absolutely includes labor.

[helmuth_hubener]

I haven't liked Disney's products for quite some time.

OK, so are you "doing your part" in ending Disney? Is that it? That I could understand: the desire to end the shoddy existence of a company making products of poor quality or even actively inimical to the things you value in the world.

So is that it?

I'm just trying to understand.

You've made it quite clear that you actively support global economics but in spite of all your logic and typing you've failed to sway my opinion on them.

Ha, ha, ha, tod. If I were trying to sway your opinion using logic, I would first use my logic to realize that that goal is utterly unrealistic and so I would stop trying. All of that happened long ago.

There are very few people who value logic so highly they choose their opinions based on logic, and most of them are probably speaking lojban.

[tod evans]

OK, so are you "doing your part" in ending Disney? Is that it?

I "do my part" to end many companies that I don't like/use or care for every day, in fact I don't patronize most companies on the planet and very few within the US.

Disney is one of them and their decision to fire locals and hire foreigners will weigh on any future purchases I might consider.

[Brian4Liberty]

Come on, Brian, I'm waiting for your blisteringly rational critique of my position! I'm waiting for you to drive away my gross ignorance by shedding forth the luminescent rays of your enlightenment. I'm so ignorant and stupid, it should be easy. Victory is here for the taking! Molṑn labé! Or as the plebeians say: Bring it on.

Well now, aren't you the clever one? Publicly posting your neg rep (which is essentially a PM), and making it look like it was a post in this thread. And you intentionally left out a word.

That was a response to your post which accused others of whining, as well as taking great pleasure in the misfortune of others. The word you strategically eliminated from your neg rep was "ass". If it applies, you might as well wear it proudly:

There most certainly are plenty of tech jobs to go around. Tons and tons. There are far more tech problems to be solved than there is talent available to solve them.

Do you guys realize how whiny, self-entitled, and victim-mentality you sound? No fair, whaaaah, foreigners stole-ed our jobs. It's not "your" job. It was never "your" job! Disney managers hired these guys because they thought they could create value for the company's customers. Now, they are hiring other guys, for the same reason. If the first group of guys can't compete: oh well! Cry me a river! I ain't crying, I'm giving a big thumbs-up, because I want Disney to be constantly thinking "what can we change, what can we shake up, in order to give this guy more and better service for less of his money?" See, they're thinking of me, they're putting me first, and that's how it should be as far as I can tell. You want them to put some misguided and economically-ignorant version of patriotic nationalism first? Forget that. That's stupid.

Put me first. The customer. Stop whining and start creating value. Get better at what you do. Become indispensable. If you can't compete, get out of the game.

[helmuth_hubener]

Well now, aren't you the clever one?

I am devastated! Devastated! You have intellectually bombed my position back to the stone age! I don't know how we'll ever recover.

[helmuth_hubener]

I "do my part" to end many companies that I don't like/use or care for every day, in fact I don't patronize most companies on the planet and very few within the US.

Disney is one of them and their decision to fire locals and hire foreigners will weigh on any future purchases I might consider.

OK, so your answer is yes, you are doing your part to bring down Disney. I can understand that.

[jclay2]

There is nothing about reorganizing one's IT department that rips apart and destroys society's common culture, common religion, and common... whatever you mean by "people," common racial and other characteristics I surmise.

There is nothing anarchist about allowing people to reorganize their IT departments.

There is not even anything distinctively libertarian about allowing people to reorganize their IT departments.

The benefits of free trade are universally known and accepted in the economics profession. That is: everybody who knows anything whatsoever about this issue agrees with me. Period. And not with you.

HH: I would strongly advise that you dampen your views on "free trade". While virtually everyone will agree with you that Global Trade and open markets is a good thing, there will be a high amount of contention regarding the implementation as it stands now. Much has to do with the order in which things are done. Does it make sense to argue for more open trade when our government artificially inflates the cost of doing business? How beneficial in the aggregate is it for some countries to 'specialize' in the production of a product where the producers openly pollute and cause massive negative externalities? What about the benefits of having a diverse economy (less volatile, more consistent, and higher amounts of independence)? Does it make sense to promote unrestricted movement of labor when new immigrants have political views diametrically opposed to your own? The same people who are pushing for 'free trade' are also massive supporters of global government.

The works is not a vacuum tube and you have to deal with the fact that the participants are not all acting in a moral free market. I am not saying that one needs to be a pure protectionist or 'they tookr jbs', but you need to be aware of the real world consequences of what you are propositing. A more useful exercise would be to answer the question: What is the quickest way to keep and grow manufacturing at home? Ie focus on the common sense solutions like lowering the cost of business and unnecessary regulations.

[donnay]

Never cared for Disney, now, I really don't like them and I will boycott anything Disney from here on.

Disney Pads Record Profits by Replacing U.S. Workers with Cheaper H-1B Guestworkers

There was a lot to celebrate in the Magic Kingdom this year. The Disney Corporation had its most profitable year ever, with profits of $7.5 billion—up 22 percent from the previous year. Disney’s stock price is up approximately 150 percent over the past three years. These kinds of results have paid off handsomely for its CEO Bob Iger, who took home $46 million in compensation last year.

Disney prides itself on its recipe for “delighting customers,” a recipe it says includes putting employees first. They tout this as a key to their success in creating “a culture where going the extra mile for customers comes naturally” for employees. One method of creating this culture is referring to its employees as “cast members.” In fact, Disney is so proud of its organizational culture that it’s even created an institute to share its magic with other businesses (for a consulting fee, of course).

So, you would expect a firm that puts its employees first to share the vast prosperity that’s been created with the very employees who went above and beyond to help generate those record profits.

Well, how did Mr. Iger repay his workers—sorry, I mean cast members—for creating all this profit? Not with bonuses and a big raises. Instead, as the New York Times just detailed in a major report, he forced hundreds of them to train their own replacements—temporary foreign workers here on H-1B guestworker visas—before he laid them off.

What motivates a company to replace its American workers with H-1B guestworkers? One word: Profit. H-1B guestworkers are cheaper than American workers and don’t have much bargaining power, and any company would be foolish not to take advantage of this highly lucrative business model that has been inadvertently created by Congress and multiple presidential administrations. Of course, this business model is paid for by destroying the livelihoods and dignity of tens of thousands of American workers. The costs are also borne by American taxpayers, through foregone tax revenue and the additional social services that need to be provided for those newly unemployed American workers.

Continued...

[Anti Federalist]

♪ ♫ It's a small world after all...♫ ♪

Just one more lap in the race to the bottom.

[Anti Federalist]

Welcome to Fantasyland, where every decision made in the world revolves around providing you with both the best and cheapest service. The people making the decisions at Disney are always putting you first. Same at all big companies. Same with government. Always cutting costs, saving money, and providing the best service possible. Nothing else ever factors into those decisions.

Bingo.

If anything, service and value is likely to decrease.

[Madison320]

Good for them!

Thank you! It's good to see that there's a few capitalists left here. What the hell has happened to this forum? I feel like I accidentally wandered into Democratic Underground.

The people on this forum complaining about Disney should be embarrassed. Instead of getting out their populist pitchforks they should be asking themselves WHY is Disney doing this. The reason is that the government makes it too expensive to hire US workers. That's where they should be directing their complaints. Disney is just trying to make a profit (Oh my god!!!).

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[Brian4Liberty]

Disney Pads Record Profits by Replacing U.S. Workers with Cheaper H-1B Guestworkers

Not sure that headline is accurate. The layoffs were announced in Oct 2014, but the last fiscal year for Disney's reported profits appears to be "12 months ending 2014-09-27". If that is the case, the reported profits would not have been effected by the layoffs. Or are they extrapolating based on more recent quarterly reports?

Which raises another issue with the perception that replacing US workers with foreigners is always cheaper. I have seen H1Bs hired for ~20% discount, yet it required almost five of them to do the work of one (and even then, the software did not function). In other words, what is commonly believed to be a cost savings was actually an additional cost.

This replacement of American workers could actually end up increasing Disney's total IT costs. Penny wise, pound foolish. If the bad PR results in customer loss, that is a separate negative effect on revenue .

[erowe1]

I'll continue doing my part by not spending my money on Disney products....

This story about these layoffs has gotten me eyeing DIS for a good buy point. I don't think the time is ripe. But I like what they're doing.

[helmuth_hubener]

HH: I would strongly advise that you dampen your views on "free trade".

Yes, so would the vast majority of the posters on this thread. They would prefer me to support un-free trade instead and amp up the volume on those views.

Sorry, I support free trade, because I support free life.

You guys can support unfree trade and an unfree life.

But do note that your "support" is laughably weak. Note that none of you will engage on this topic. And well you shouldn't. All the facts are on my side, and none of them are on yours. But that doesn't stop you from believing what you want to believe, it just keeps you from being able to defend it against rational people. So, just keep those insults coming, Brian; way to moderate, way to set the tone.

I wish all of you the best in your boycott of Disney. What an inspiring example of the kind of grassroots activism RPF is capable of nowadays. You guys should start a thread promoting it. Maybe you could have a moneybomb.

[tod evans]

This story about these layoffs has gotten me eyeing DIS for a good buy point. I don't think the time is ripe. But I like what they're doing.

Well buy right on in then, most of the country today doesn't think or act like I do so you'll probably show a profit...

[devil21]

Thank you! It's good to see that there's a few capitalists left here. What the hell has happened to this forum? I feel like I accidentally wandered into Democratic Underground.

The people on this forum complaining about Disney should be embarrassed. Instead of getting out their populist pitchforks they should be asking themselves WHY is Disney doing this. The reason is that the government makes it too expensive to hire US workers. That's where they should be directing their complaints. Disney is just trying to make a profit (Oh my god!!!).

Your definition of capitalism includes regulatory and legislative capture, whereby corporations write immigration law to benefit their bottom line?

Why is Disney doing it? Because they can! Because they, and other corporations, pay heavily to OWN our lawmakers to pass laws that Disney wrote. That's not free market capitalism, that's crony capitalism.

Perhaps you should review Ron's thoughts on such things before you declare RPF to suddenly be DU:


Of course, Americans continue to be ignorant of their own interests by supporting corporations like Disney. I attended a 3 year old's birthday party this past weekend and the entire party was "Frozen" themed. Practically every item, gift or otherwise, was something related to that movie so a bunch of people were pouring their cash into a company's account that is actively working against them.

[phill4paul]

Yes, so would the vast majority of the posters on this thread. They would prefer me to support un-free trade instead and amp up the volume on those views.

Sorry, I support free trade, because I support free life.

You guys can support unfree trade and an unfree life.

But do note that your "support" is laughably weak. Note that none of you will engage on this topic. And well you shouldn't. All the facts are on my side, and none of them are on yours. But that doesn't stop you from believing what you want to believe, it just keeps you from being able to defend it against rational people. So, just keep those insults coming, Brian; way to moderate, way to set the tone.

I wish all of you the best in your boycott of Disney. What an inspiring example of the kind of grassroots activism RPF is capable of nowadays. You guys should start a thread promoting it. Maybe you could have a moneybomb.

I don't support Disney because of their political lobbying and contributions to candidates that I don't care for. Disney is anything but a "free trade" organization.

[Madison320]

Your definition of capitalism includes regulatory and legislative capture, whereby corporations write immigration law to benefit their bottom line?

Why is Disney doing it? Because they can! Because they, and other corporations, pay heavily to OWN our lawmakers to pass laws that Disney wrote. That's not free market capitalism, that's crony capitalism.

It seems to me that in this case Disney is lobbying for a free market in labor. Isn't the real crime that Disney is not allowed to hire whoever they want? Why shouldn't they be allowed to hire foreigners? It's one thing for a business to lobby the government for free stuff, but in this case it seems they are lobbying for a something that should already exist. It's like when a company lobbies for a tax exemption, when they shouldn't be taxed in the first place.

[devil21]

It seems to me that in this case Disney is lobbying for a free market in labor. Isn't the real crime that Disney is not allowed to hire whoever they want? Why shouldn't they be allowed to hire foreigners? It's one thing for a business to lobby the government for free stuff, but in this case it seems they are lobbying for a something that should already exist. It's like when a company lobbies for a tax exemption, when they shouldn't be taxed in the first place.

Disney can hire whoever they like. Where your logic fails, imo, is that, in this case at least but seen in many other examples, these particular visas extended to foreigners are based on the idea that there are no qualified Americans to fill the jobs, thus requiring Disney to seek workers from outside of the domestic labor pool. Obviously that is not the case since Disney is FIRING the Americans currently in those positions, in favor of hiring cheaper foreign workers. Corporations continually lobby for more H1B visas for this very purpose. If you ask me, Disney and others are breaking the law yet nothing happens. Ironically, they're breaking the laws they wrote.

eta: and if I was one of those being fired, I would be very tempted to "train" Abdul very poorly. After all, I was hired to be a tech employee, not a trainer. There must be a language barrier.

[jclay2]

Yes, so would the vast majority of the posters on this thread. They would prefer me to support un-free trade instead and amp up the volume on those views.

Sorry, I support free trade, because I support free life.

You guys can support unfree trade and an unfree life.

But do note that your "support" is laughably weak. Note that none of you will engage on this topic. And well you shouldn't. All the facts are on my side, and none of them are on yours. But that doesn't stop you from believing what you want to believe, it just keeps you from being able to defend it against rational people. So, just keep those insults coming, Brian; way to moderate, way to set the tone.

I wish all of you the best in your boycott of Disney. What an inspiring example of the kind of grassroots activism RPF is capable of nowadays. You guys should start a thread promoting it. Maybe you could have a moneybomb.

I wrote a a non aggressive response bringing up some practical reasons where your ricardo/smith theory might break down. Your response:

All the facts are on my side, and none of them are on yours.

Seriously? I guess that is one way to respond to a post.

[Brian4Liberty]

Never cared for Disney, now, I really don't like them and I will boycott anything Disney from here on.

Disney Pads Record Profits by Replacing U.S. Workers with Cheaper H-1B Guestworkers

There was a lot to celebrate in the Magic Kingdom this year. The Disney Corporation had its most profitable year ever, with profits of $7.5 billion—up 22 percent from the previous year. Disney’s stock price is up approximately 150 percent over the past three years. These kinds of results have paid off handsomely for its CEO Bob Iger, who took home $46 million in compensation last year.
...
Continued...

Let's see how much they saved. Net profits were $7.5 billion in fiscal 2014. A wild guess at the cost of those 250 workers might be 250 x $100k/year, which would be a $25 million dollar per year. That would be 0.3% of net profits.

It would probably be better to compare it to the Total Operating Expense of $37,378,000,000 though. That ends up being a whopping expense savings of 0.000669%.

Of course this doesn't take into account that the replacements will probably cost between 50%-80% of the original workers. Not much for shareholders or Wall St. to look forward to in savings, but it would contribute a little bit to executive compensation. Tickets to Disney theme parks and movies would probably not be effected.

[oyarde]

This story about these layoffs has gotten me eyeing DIS for a good buy point. I don't think the time is ripe. But I like what they're doing.

I will pass .

[Madison320]

Disney can hire whoever they like. Where your logic fails, imo, is that, in this case at least but seen in many other examples, these particular visas extended to foreigners are based on the idea that there are no qualified Americans to fill the jobs, thus requiring Disney to seek workers from outside of the domestic labor pool. Obviously that is not the case since Disney is FIRING the Americans currently in those positions, in favor of hiring cheaper foreign workers. Corporations continually lobby for more H1B visas for this very purpose. If you ask me, Disney and others are breaking the law yet nothing happens. Ironically, they're breaking the laws they wrote.

Your first sentence is "Disney can hire whoever they like". From there it sounds to me like you DON'T think Disney can hire whoever they like. I don't care about the law, I care about what's morally right. What's immoral about Disney hiring foreigners?

What about restaurants that hire illegals to work in the kitchen? Do you think it's wrong for the restaurants to do that?

[Madison320]

Let's see how much they saved. Net profits were $7.5 billion in fiscal 2014. A wild guess at the cost of those 250 workers might be 250 x $100k/year, which would be a $25 million dollar per year. That would be 0.3% of net profits.

It would probably be better to compare it to the Total Operating Expense of $37,378,000,000 though. That ends up being a whopping expense savings of 0.000669%.

Of course this doesn't take into account that the replacements will probably cost between 50%-80% of the original workers. Not much for shareholders or Wall St. to look forward to in savings, but it would contribute a little bit to executive compensation. Tickets to Disney theme parks and movies would probably not be effected.

Shouldn't it be up to Disney to decide what is best for their company?