Rand Paul's Genius Moment

[HarryBrowneLives]

"Look at what he's set up here. There's 17 people on the stage. You'll have 16 people all attacking Rand Paul and the whole news cycle will be about him ...and he does it on an issue where he will be saying I'M in favor of The Constitution. Is it any more American than The Constitution? "
--Cenk Uygur 6/1

Nailed it. Stroke of genius
"

[wizardwatson]

"Look at what he's set up here. There's 17 people on the stage. You'll have 16 people all attacking Rand Paul and the whole news cycle will be about him ...and he does it on an issue where he will be saying I'M in favor of The Constitution. Is it any more American than The Constitution? "
--Cenk Uygur 6/1

Nailed it. Stroke of genius
"

You know if that's Rand's plan, then ok. Rand figured out a way to get everyone talking about him. Did he have to do it by being the guy who shut down terrorist surveillance?

It's genius as long as there actually isn't a terrorist incident in the window of his legacy as being the guy who turned off the security cameras on the homeland.

[HarryBrowneLives]

No doubt he is throwing the ball 50 yards downfield. That is a risk for sure. Yet, for us there is also a risk of doing nothing. He's had trouble finding a "sugar daddy" billionaire to finance his campaign unlike others. So, there is also a risk of not separating yourself ...merely rolling around in the mud for a while with guys who have far more money than you and eventually smother you. Not sure if he had a choice really.

You know if that's Rand's plan, then ok. Rand figured out a way to get everyone talking about him. Did he have to do it by being the guy who shut down terrorist surveillance?

It's genius as long as there actually isn't a terrorist incident in the window of his legacy as being the guy who turned off the security cameras on the homeland.

[Sola_Fide]

Everyone should watch this to the end.

[HarryBrowneLives]

Proudest 2 votes I ever cast for POTUS. God Bless u Harry!

[wizardwatson]

No doubt he is throwing the ball 50 yards downfield. That is a risk for sure. Yet, for us there is also a risk of doing nothing. He's had trouble finding a "sugar daddy" billionaire to finance his campaign unlike others. So, there is also a risk of not separating yourself ...merely rolling around in the mud for a while with guys who have far more money than you and eventually smother you. Not sure if he had a choice really.

Well, at least you acknowledge the risk. Most around here seem to be saying this was some sort of genius move. To me this is a "hail mary" in the first quarter.

I hope he's thought this through. Because to me it looks like he's been played. They handed this to him on a silver platter and the mainstream media talking points look so thought out that it appears to me that they were waiting for this. I just want people to see that. The longer we sit around posting pics of muscle-bound Rand sticking it to the man the more we look like idiots.

Rand just put the collective liberty movement in the hotseat as the people who traded America's security for an ideological victory. That's the fact.

It DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE TRUTH IS. Of course it was illegal. Of course they are still tracking American's.

The point is now the narrative is completely against us. And it's the propaganda narrative that Rand is fighting. We will see. I'm not saying "all is lost". I'm saying wake up, we didn't just "win something" Rand just stirred up the hornets nest we didn't chop a head off the hydra.

Now that's my official take. Personally, I believe this was orchestrated. Which means I believe that Rand's "tactical win" was purposely given to him. Call it a conspiracy theory but there's way to many things that seemed conveniently lined up for this to happen. And if we don't get out of this victory dance and pay attention we are making a further mistake.

What are we ultimately doing? We're trying to help people are we not? So we need to be serious and get out of this aggressive "We just kicked your ass!" macho mentality. It's stupid and it's blinding us.

[puppetmaster]

Well, at least you acknowledge the risk. Most around here seem to be saying this was some sort of genius move. To me this is a "hail mary" in the first quarter.

I hope he's thought this through. Because to me it looks like he's been played. They handed this to him on a silver platter and the mainstream media talking points look so thought out that it appears to me that they were waiting for this. I just want people to see that. The longer we sit around posting pics of muscle-bound Rand sticking it to the man the more we look like idiots.

Rand just put the collective liberty movement in the hotseat as the people who traded America's security for an ideological victory. That's the fact.

It DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE TRUTH IS. Of course it was illegal. Of course they are still tracking American's.

The point is now the narrative is completely against us. And it's the propaganda narrative that Rand is fighting. We will see. I'm not saying "all is lost". I'm saying wake up, we didn't just "win something" Rand just stirred up the hornets nest we didn't chop a head off the hydra.

Now that's my official take. Personally, I believe this was orchestrated. Which means I believe that Rand's "tactical win" was purposely given to him. Call it a conspiracy theory but there's way to many things that seemed conveniently lined up for this to happen. And if we don't get out of this victory dance and pay attention we are making a further mistake.

What are we ultimately doing? We're trying to help people are we not? So we need to be serious and get out of this aggressive "We just kicked your ass!" macho mentality. It's stupid and it's blinding us.

traded America's security........you are so wrong. I has not provided any security for us period.

[libertyplz]

traded America's security........you are so wrong. I has not provided any security for us period.

I don't agree with Wizard but I think you misunderstood him, or idk maybe I'm wrong (don't agree with him in that they purposely let Rand win, I entirely agree if something were to happen they will blame Rand though). I believe he is saying is that he is worried that if something were to happen they will now turn around and say the part you bolded in the quote, he himself (wizard) isn't saying it just that he thinks they will, hence he is worried that they gave Rand the "win". Again I don't see it that way, but I believe that is what his concerns are. Way I read it at least.

[HarryBrowneLives]

Well, at least you acknowledge the risk. Most around here seem to be saying this was some sort of genius move. To me this is a "hail mary" in the first quarter.

I hope he's thought this through. Because to me it looks like he's been played. They handed this to him on a silver platter and the mainstream media talking points look so thought out that it appears to me that they were waiting for this. I just want people to see that. The longer we sit around posting pics of muscle-bound Rand sticking it to the man the more we look like idiots.

Rand just put the collective liberty movement in the hotseat as the people who traded America's security for an ideological victory. That's the fact.

It DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE TRUTH IS. Of course it was illegal. Of course they are still tracking American's.

The point is now the narrative is completely against us. And it's the propaganda narrative that Rand is fighting. We will see. I'm not saying "all is lost". I'm saying wake up, we didn't just "win something" Rand just stirred up the hornets nest we didn't chop a head off the hydra.

Now that's my official take. Personally, I believe this was orchestrated. Which means I believe that Rand's "tactical win" was purposely given to him. Call it a conspiracy theory but there's way to many things that seemed conveniently lined up for this to happen. And if we don't get out of this victory dance and pay attention we are making a further mistake.

What are we ultimately doing? We're trying to help people are we not? So we need to be serious and get out of this aggressive "We just kicked your ass!" macho mentality. It's stupid and it's blinding us.

It is a Hail Mary in the first quarter. He/we are a decent college team vs. The Establishment ...analogous to the Green Bay Packers. What he's trying to do is prove out our message and separate himself at the same time with John Q Public really with two early themes ... (A) Do you really trust the government with all this information? (B) Are we now better off in the Middle East as a consequence of all the blood and treasure? Most average people would say no to both.

Under the circumstances, I'm not sure he had a choice if he wanted to be in any way viable. It doesn't look like we will be able to out fund anybody. The fact remains, freedom takes balls. It always has. Basically, what Rand has done is gone for broke. We are going to win or lose this thing now ...not wait until the MSM is busy licking the feet of the next Bush cardboard cutout while we (and our message mind you) get left in the dust.

[wizardwatson]

traded America's security........you are so wrong. I has not provided any security for us period.

Do you see now how you have flipped flopped on the "Rand strategy". Our roles have been reversed. Now I'm in a position where I'm saying "it isn't about the truth, it's about what people believe".

Rand has taken a stand on something that MOST American's are in agreement on. I faulted him for pandering to the Israel crap. But instead of taking a principled stand there, he takes it here and you defend it?

So when Rand panders, it's to win the Presidency and we should all get in line. When he stands on "principle" against the whole of the electorate I should also get in line. So which is it? Is Rand about winning or is he not about winning? If he's about principle then why should I tolerate his pandering and lying by omission? If he's about winning the presidency then why should I tolerate him making this strategic error by appearing to John Q. to gut our LIVE OPERATING anti-terror programs?

Jumping the shark with this one RPF.

[NewRightLibertarian]

You know if that's Rand's plan, then ok. Rand figured out a way to get everyone talking about him. Did he have to do it by being the guy who shut down terrorist surveillance?

It's genius as long as there actually isn't a terrorist incident in the window of his legacy as being the guy who turned off the security cameras on the homeland.

If it gets to that point, I am sure Rand will have some tricks up his sleeve.

[thoughtomator]

Wizard is being fatalist. It's been made plain and clear over and over again that there's been no security benefit to the program being challenged, so Paul's position is defensible no matter what happens. Also it is overwhelmingly popular.

[wizardwatson]

Wizard is being fatalist. It's been made plain and clear over and over again that there's been no security benefit to the program being challenged, so Paul's position is defensible no matter what happens. Also it is overwhelmingly popular.

As I said, the official government line is that it thwarted 60 terror attacks. Only in a "classified briefing" was Rand and company told that it didn't benefit them. Which means Rand won't be able to explain why it didn't help and the official line will stand.

And it's already been posted that 61% of voters think the program should stay. And most of those are Republicans in his own party.

For people to believe this is a win-win I think are wrong. I'm not being fatalist. I don't think this is the end. Yes, I have my own personal opinion that this all seems rather contrived in how he magically did this on a technicality and the timing was perfect, but that doesn't change the fact that it still looks really bad FROM OUTSIDE THE LIBERTY MOVEMENT. And we are much smaller than people imagine we are.

"We're growing. We're catching on." ....whatever. Most people here were the fatalists who were saying that WE WEREN'T CATCHING ON and that's why Rand's pandering strategy had to be tolerated. But no one even wants to admit that because of this victory you've all changed your stripes.

Going to bed.

Frustrating, but not surprising RPF.

[timosman]

Maybe we are being played, Jade Helm anyone ?

[libertyplz]

Maybe you're being played to believe we're being played! Or am I being played to believe you are being played to believe we are being played! how far does this rabbit hole go!?

Think this calls for the Hardy Boys!

[timosman]

[twomp]

As I said, the official government line is that it thwarted 60 terror attacks. Only in a "classified briefing" was Rand and company told that it didn't benefit them. Which means Rand won't be able to explain why it didn't help and the official line will stand.

And it's already been posted that 61% of voters think the program should stay. And most of those are Republicans in his own party.

For people to believe this is a win-win I think are wrong. I'm not being fatalist. I don't think this is the end. Yes, I have my own personal opinion that this all seems rather contrived in how he magically did this on a technicality and the timing was perfect, but that doesn't change the fact that it still looks really bad FROM OUTSIDE THE LIBERTY MOVEMENT. And we are much smaller than people imagine we are.

"We're growing. We're catching on." ....whatever. Most people here were the fatalists who were saying that WE WEREN'T CATCHING ON and that's why Rand's pandering strategy had to be tolerated. But no one even wants to admit that because of this victory you've all changed your stripes.

Going to bed.

Frustrating, but not surprising RPF.

A new poll from Morning Consult found that 27 percent of respondents prefer allowing provisions that enable the National Security Agency to collect bulk data on Americans’ cell phones to expire, like the 2016 presidential contender Rand Paul. Only 12 percent agree with McConnell that the Patriot Act provisions should be extended as they were originally passed.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...#ixzz3bsbk9vso

[r3volution 3.0]

The Great Wizard of Watson fails to understand something fundamental.

Someone with as much stature as Rand ("electable," "top tier," etc) can aggressively attack the establishment and win, whereas someone like Ron, who never managed to break out of the kook-bubble, could not. And how, pray tell, did Rand make his escape from kook-ville? By his moderating strategy of the last year. That made this possible. And, yes, contrary to the Wiz's pronouncements, this is a huge win: a big first step toward cementing Rand's position as the anti-establishment candidate.

The very people (grassroots conservatives) who would have (and in fact did in the past) called Ron a kook for similarly brave stances are now cheering themselves hoarse for Rand's stand against the McCains and Grahams of the party. It's not so much they they liked McCain and Graham's wing more back when Ron was running, it's that they needed to hear the criticism from a messenger whom they considered credible.

So, Wiz, you were wrong to criticize Rand's moderating in the past, and you're wrong to criticize his boldness now.

[specsaregood]

Maybe you're being played to believe we're being played! Or am I being played to believe you are being played to believe we are being played! how far does this rabbit hole go!?

Think this calls for the Hardy Boys!

indeed, never ending oogity boogity, be afraid! Always afraid!

[libertyplz]

be afraid! Always afraid!

Looks at quote

Looks at Avatar...

I am pleased !

[Rudeman]

Eh they can claim Rand made us less safe but Rand is pushing back when he proposes that instead of spying on all Americans they hire more FBI agents to handle the intel they currently have and are unable to process along with targeting people of interest instead of just casting a wide net and letting potential threats threw the cracks.

I mean they weren't even pretending the meta data collection prevented attacks, they wanted it for investigations after an attack. As if they would have a hard time getting a warrant to investigate any attack.

[RonPaul4Prez2012]

I feel bad. Rand Paul has been taking up so much of my time that I forgot about ole' Ronnie. Shame on me.

[economics102]

No doubt he is throwing the ball 50 yards downfield. That is a risk for sure. Yet, for us there is also a risk of doing nothing.

This.

Rand took a big but calculated risk, one that gives him a real chance to win. Trying to blend in amidst 17+ candidates is not a winning strategy. (not just for him -- we all know most of those candidates don't stand a chance in hell).

If the establishment's plan was to astroturf Rand out of the spotlight, Rand's counter-move is an attempt to nullify that.

Rand was shrewd to choose an issue that is not only conservative and Constitutional, but an issue where there's huge crossover appeal from Dems and independents. Very smart politics, just like when he did his first filibuster.

[rich34]

You know if that's Rand's plan, then ok. Rand figured out a way to get everyone talking about him. Did he have to do it by being the guy who shut down terrorist surveillance?

It's genius as long as there actually isn't a terrorist incident in the window of his legacy as being the guy who turned off the security cameras on the homeland.

Woah now! Rand didn't "shut down" terrorist surveillance. He only worked to end the mass data collection of AMERICAN CITIZENS. In no way shape or form is this country not collecting intelligence gathering of suspected terrorist abroad. I have no idea where you got that from.

[rich34]

Well, at least you acknowledge the risk. Most around here seem to be saying this was some sort of genius move.


It's stupid and it's blinding us.

Do you really believe this country gave up on intelligence gathering abroad?? Hell, we've been doing intelligence gathering under the constitution for just a few hundred years now... The patriot act didn't just now come along 14 years ago and give this country the right to do that. Rand simply fought against the bulk collection of records against American citizens.


And yes I agree, stupidity does seem to be blinding a few...

[rich34]

As I said, the official government line is that it thwarted 60 terror attacks. Only in a "classified briefing" was Rand and company told that it didn't benefit them. Which means Rand won't be able to explain why it didn't help and the official line will stand.

And it's already been posted that 61% of voters think the program should stay. And most of those are Republicans in his own party.

For people to believe this is a win-win I think are wrong. I'm not being fatalist. I don't think this is the end. Yes, I have my own personal opinion that this all seems rather contrived in how he magically did this on a technicality and the timing was perfect, but that doesn't change the fact that it still looks really bad FROM OUTSIDE THE LIBERTY MOVEMENT. And we are much smaller than people imagine we are.

"We're growing. We're catching on." ....whatever. Most people here were the fatalists who were saying that WE WEREN'T CATCHING ON and that's why Rand's pandering strategy had to be tolerated. But no one even wants to admit that because of this victory you've all changed your stripes.

Going to bed.

Frustrating, but not surprising RPF.

Who the hell are you anyway? Do you work for one of the major networks? Nobody is buying your BS numbers that no one has ever seen before and just where the hell are you getting those numbers anyway? All the numbers I've seen says quite the opposite, literally. And not only that, go watch CSpan and see where the American people are siding on this issue.