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I would be very interested in helping this move forward. It would not be my main account at first until enough people accepted it (or just the right places like bitcoin) but I really do think it's the waive of the future.Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener
And all you bitcoiners can say i'm wrong but the future will prove me right. It's the foundations of bitcoin (namely open source) that make it valuable. The coin itself is a pump and dump scheme that's destined to implode. I own 10 of them that i've had for many years but to me they're just something I need to sell when they get pumped again. 500 people own over half the coins (and they're the loudest cheerleaders feeding you all this BS and I should know the BS when I see it because I just spent the last 4 years watching PM shills do the same thing).
Gold introduces some counterparty risk but there's a ton of counterparty risk with bitcoin already (Silk road, hello? Mt. Gox, hello?) as I said before so long as the gold and/or silver were not fractionally reserved this would work just fine.
In fact with Texas just opening the first state wide bullion depository, that is EXEMPT from federal confiscation attempts, you could likely use them as your base of operations in the beginning.
Last edited by NoOneButPaul; 06-14-2015 at 06:13 PM.
It's just an opinion... man...
https://www.perpetualassets.com/silver-debit-card/
Well someone was listening... apparently this is becoming a reality. Still without truly understanding the vaulting service (and knowing it's not fractionally reserved) it's hard to trust it fully.
It's just an opinion... man...
Presence, what if there were a card like that with no ordering fee, monthly fee, no transaction fee, and free global ATM withdrawals?
...sounds like we've found the holy grail of free lunche$!.....(btw, can i make my free global withdrawal in the gold
...or the frn's/tokens
..
...monetary reality...until/unless the rule$ are changed you will be controlled by the frn banksters...gold bugs and bitcoiners be damned...
...and if 'they' are forced to 'change,'i submit 'they' will have already acquired all the gold/mines, etc. ad nauseam, 'they' will ever need.....
Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 06-22-2015 at 07:21 AM.
Nope, no free lunch; the lunch is paid for by many people, mostly by merchants who accept the card, ultimately.
Sorry, it's the frowny-face: FRNs. Or Euros, or Rupees, or whatever, if you're abroad. If you can find an ATM that dispenses gold, you could even do that. You may be able to find some in Germany, also a couple in Singapore, and one in Florida.Can I make my free global withdrawal in the gold
At some point in a man's life, he needs to take control of his own life, accept responsibility for his own life, start making bold choices for his own life, and stop whining incessantly about the choices and beliefs of others....monetary reality...until/unless the rule$ are changed you will be controlled by the frn banksters
At some point in a man's life, he needs to take control of his own life, accept responsibility for his own life, start making bold choices for his own life, and stop whining incessantly about the choices and beliefs of others.
...?said the armed white ma$ter to the unarmed chained slave?..
a little hint helmuth, political bulletin boards and politics in general are rife with 'whining' (i refer to my assessment of your ideas as 'enlightened criticism')...you whine with the worst and best of us, helmuth..
...do yourself a favor and acquaint yourself with 'monetary realism'...it will change your whole outlook on thing$...
If you see me as a master and yourself as a helpless slave, that says more about your own psychological state than anything about reality. And what it says to me is: hapless; pathetic; contemptible; dead-end.
I am a master, and strive to be one ever more-so, but not of slaves.
And if I had a slave, I would probably not choose you.
...good grief, helmuth!...anyone knowledgeable about 'our'
“While boasting of our noble deeds we're careful to conceal
the ugly fact that by an iniquitous money system we have
nationalized a system of oppression which, though more refined,
is not less cruel than the old system of chattel slavery.”
― Horace Greeley
Now that you've bumped this, could you reply plz to the question I posed immediately before your bump?Thnx.Actually, I don't see that as a problem. As it is, I don't have access to 100% of my checking or savings FRNs at any given time (Checking is ~96%, IDR savings ATM).
I reckon if even just 90% is gold, the purchasing power and stability long term would make up for it.Agreed?
Oh, sorry, I missed it, HB! Thanks for re-asking; sorry to make you have to.
Your question is whether I agree that "if even just 90% is gold, the purchasing power and stability long term would make up for it". It depends what you mean by that. I do agree that whatever a 100% gold account would be doing, a 90% gold account is going to be doing something very similar, long-term. So yes, the purchasing power and stability of 90% gold 10% cash is going to be very close to the purchasing power and stability of 100% gold.
I do think that you need to be aware, however, that gold is not necessarily going to be more stable in terms of purchasing power than other assets, at least in the short and medium term. If you look at a chart of gold over the past year or even over ten, you will see that it's been quite volatile in terms of the dollar. Now, you could say that really it's the dollar that's been volatile in terms of gold, and that would be a fair point. Nevertheless, it means that your purchasing power to buy products with US dollar-denominated prices has fluctuated a great deal.
Over the last twenty years, and even over the last ten years, that fluctuation has very much been in gold's favor. The ounce of gold that could buy you about $350 dollar's-worth of goods in 1995 could buy you more like $450 in 2005 and more like $1,100 today. But shorter-term can be different. This past 12 months, for example, gold has fallen by about 10% against the dollar.
I just want you to be aware of the risks and realities. If you had a gold-denominated account linked to a debit card that you were using for all your financial needs as your main every-day payment card, you would have to be aware that you may deposit a paycheck worth $578.00 one day, and a week later -- without spending anything -- your account balance may be just $500. Or it could be $650. That would be an especially volatile week, but not unheard of in the gold market. You would, of course, still have the .5 ounces or so just exactly the same as when you deposited it. So in terms of gold, it would remain unchanged. With the 90% gold card I'm floating the idea of, the gain/loss would be dampened slightly: about $507/$643 instead of $500/$650.
Because of this volatility, you would need to have some amount of cushion, some amount of savings that is, so that the day-to-day volatility doesn't mess up your finances and make it difficult to pay your bills. You can't be living totally paycheck-to-paycheck. You have to have some savings, I'd say at minimum a month's worth (two would be better), and be regularly saving, say 10% of your income. That would mean your expenses are 10% less than your income. That would put you on sound enough financial footing to get such a card, otherwise I would not be comfortable recommending it.
What do you think? Still interested?
Don't you mean $tinking monetary order? Come on, Panqui, get it right! You lack of $ is troubling.
Anyway, if I am so ignorant of history -- and I will readily admit that I am! -- how about you teach me, and all the rest of us, what historical facts and episodes, specifically, you want us to become aware of? That's the thing about history: there's so much of it! It would be impossible for anyone to know anything but a very, very tiny percentage of it. But I am always happy to know more.
So, let us know!
News flash:
BitGold just let me know that as of this morning, they are now allowing US citizens to open accounts.
Don't get too excited: despite the website, they do not actually have a payment card yet. So, it's just storage.
how about you teach me, and all the rest of us, what historical facts and episodes, specifically, you want us to become aware of?
...probably not 'all'
...unaware of/oblivious to the basic realities of our stinking monetary order...blaming the real victims of this stinking monetary order, rather than working towards exposing/revealing/describing this hideou$ fraud to others...
..btw, i sense you are a decent sort---albeit maybe a little bit of whiner when you negged me and commented 'you make no sense'
Monetary Realism
If by that you mean you adhere to Real Business Cycle Theory, then we can discuss that. I think the idea is completely and soundly disproven (at least in its rigid, absolute form).
If by that you mean the mishmash of ideas adhered to by one Cullen Roche, then... is there even anything to talk about? Are there any clear statements made by this "monetary realism" of Cullen's that could be agreed with, or disagreed with? I doubt it. But if this is what you mean and you do want to attempt to talk about it: by all means, have at. I will try to play along.
I've cracked it. Those actually interested in beta testing a gold-backed debit card may send me a private message. Declare your independence from the corrupt, statist, crony, fractional reserve banking system.
helmuth queries: Are there any clear statements made by this "monetary realism" of Cullen's that could be agreed with, or disagreed with? I doubt it. But if this is what you mean and you do want to attempt to talk about it: by all means, have at. I will try to play along.
...from what little i read of 'cullen,' he appears as yet another in a long long line of 'republicrat economic theorists'...yet another with his cake-hole frequently working as to the illion 'dollar' economy absent an honest, REAL understanding of the origin, nature, etc. of even one stinking 'dollar'...
REALISM: 'the quality or fact of representing a person, thing, or situation accurately or in a way that is true to life.'
...so, for one of many examples, helmuth, i would expect a true 'monetary realist' to understand that most of 'our money' is created by commercial banks in the process of their fraudulent 'deposit creation' privilege/scheme...and not 'printed by the government'....as your typical republicrat-voting gd fool 'believes'..including, apparently, most/all of the teabag 'liberty' republicrat cheerleaders too!!
helmuth beckons: 'Declare your independence from the corrupt, statist, crony, fractional reserve banking system.'
...a 'monetary realist' understands that without major legislative change--(not even being whispered about by the stinking republicrats, btw) anyone not an 'indian on untaxed land' who doesn't use federal reserve notes/tokens--or someone using them in their behalf-is very quickly dead/in jail/both here in 'murka...get realism, helmuth!
as one wag put it, helmuth: "Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money."
Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 07-14-2015 at 01:28 PM.
Well, check!, count me in I guess, by that criterion.
Watch and wonder.helmuth beckons: 'Declare your independence from the corrupt, statist, crony, fractional reserve banking system.'[/I]
...a 'monetary realist' understands that without major legislative change--(not even being whispered about by the stinking republicrats, btw) anyone not an 'indian on untaxed land' who doesn't use federal reserve notes/tokens--or someone using them in their behalf-is very quickly dead/in jail/both here in 'murka...get realism, helmuth!
Come on, is RPF really this dead? Virtually no interest in this whatsoever? Come on, guys: gold bullion debit card. Insanely low fees. Protect yourself from inflation. How are you guys not crawling over each other to be on the waiting list?
....helmuth, remember that the true 'owners' of that land upon which you lay your head down at night, the land your food is grown upon, etc..is yours to use only if you cough up some federal reserve notes...you hand them gold and they'll tell you to sell it for some federal reserve notes you can then use to pay the land rental fee ('property tax')...
...another example of realism, helmuth...
JIT - Just-in-Time:....helmuth, remember that the true 'owners' of that land upon which you lay your head down at night, the land your food is grown upon, etc..is yours to use only if you cough up some federal reserve notes...you hand them gold and they'll tell you to sell it for some federal reserve notes you can then use to pay the land rental fee ('property tax')...
...another example of realism, helmuth...
An inventory strategy companies employ to increase efficiency and decrease waste by receiving goods only as they are needed
helmuth asserts his monetary realism: Well, check!, count me in I guess, by that criterion.
....good for you, helmuth!!...true monetary realists are rare indeed...(for example, to my knowledge, there are no current federal politicians who are monetary realists...)
...i did make note of a small sample of your monetary realism here at post #160, etc:...please paste a link to your best writing/thinking on the $ubject...i assure you i will read it thoroughly and comment honestly...
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...illusion/page6
...are you doing anything to make your vision of a 'gold-backed money' workable?...have you lobbied your representative(s) to submit bills making gold/silver 'legal tender,' (acceptable for the payment of taxes) etc.?...
interested, send me more info
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
I will just link you to my posting of Harry Browne's explanation. It is very clear, and very good, I think.
The Best Explanation of Fractional Reserve Banking Ever
....nice post, helmuth!..some great $tuff...
...btw, others (?here too?) don't believe me when i tell them, 'bankers get bonds for nothing...you/i have to 'work' to acquire the money to buy bonds, but the banksters get them for absolutely nothing'...(which amounts to a bankster tax upon all)..what say you, helmuth?...
...my problem with browne--and i really liked him--was that he really never blew the whistle on 'bankster privilege' enough...he badmouthed 'government' more than he badmouthed 'the banksters'...'the government' are merely puppets of 'the banksters'...
...as one wag put it, 'the fact that these stinking republicrats NEVER talk about 'the money' tells anyone not a gd republicrat fool all they need to know....'
still waiting
Questions.
- Whence the gold? Do you physically bring it to a bank? Is there a service that would take care of this for you... for a fee?
- How are accounts reconciled? After spending 1/2 of your reserve, where does the "used" gold go?
- What happens when someone buys something from YOU, using dollars? Is that converted to gold? What if no gold is available?
- If the bank is robbed of the physical gold, where would you stand as the ultimate robbee? Would FDIC or similar protection be available?
- Would your gold be safe from government action such as that taken by Roosevelt in confiscation?
There are probably more issues, but this is a good start, methinks.
I like the idea, but there appear to be kinks. The notion of armored cars moving huge stores of heavy metal back and forth does present problems, IMO. In a simpler world, 2# of gold in a man's pockets would perhaps be little trouble to him, save for the usual threats posed by thieves and other miscreants. In this world of paranoia, endless theft by legitimization, and other stupidities unimaginable just 200 years ago, I am not entirely convinced that gold remains a sound sink of value. The simple fact that our technologies are so capable, yet in the hands of brigands we call "government", I feel little to no security regarding gold. Imagine I go through security at an airport and ten pounds of gold are discovered in my possession. You bloody well know it will likely be confiscated under civil forfeiture on the pretext that I must be a drug dealer. Then I would have to go to prison for murder in defense of my property and it's all downhill from there.
Anyhow, those are some of the concerns I have with the idea.
freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.
It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.
Our words make us the ghosts that we are.
Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.
Gradually rolling it out in a bigger way:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...of-Sound-Money
I'm giving RPFers early adopting priority in line by posting it here. Let me know if you'd like to get a card and help test it.
I'm going to have to pass.. I trust no one with my physical gold but me
Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,
The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!
Great questions, osan!
Switzerland. We, Midas, own it, through an intermediary. When you fund your account, we purchase the gold on your behalf. You fund the account in the normal way, with dollars. The dollars are then converted to gold. See?
Whenever you spend gold, it is converted into dollars. The gold is then sold back to the intermediary.[*]How are accounts reconciled? After spending 1/2 of your reserve, where does the "used" gold go?
We do not offer a merchant account (at least not yet). This is just like a normal bank account. Just as in your previous normal experience, if someone pays you, they will be giving you a check or actual paper dollars. You can then deposit this into your account. If you are using Midas, then yes: upon deposit the funds are used to buy gold and immediately converted from dollars to ounces.[*]What happens when someone buys something from YOU, using dollars? Is that converted to gold? What if no gold is available?
The gold is in a vault in Switzerland. This is exceedingly unlikely.[*]If the bank is robbed of the physical gold, where would you stand as the ultimate robbee? Would FDIC or similar protection be available?
From that particular government action? Yes. The gold is in a vault in Switzerland. Not in the jurisdiction of Roosevelt and his successors. However, no tangible asset can ever be completely safe from government action.[*]Would your gold be safe from government action such as that taken by Roosevelt in confiscation?
If Midas takes off and becomes popular, the framework I have built can be used for other backing assets as well. We could make a bitcoin-backed debit card, a silver-backed debit card, an anything-you-want-backed debit card. The sky's the limit.I am not entirely convinced that gold remains a sound sink of value.
Fair enough! Thanks for the feedback, though!
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