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Thread: Sen. Warren: TPP "Secret Because If Details Were Made Public Now, The Public Would Oppose It'

  1. #1

    Sen. Warren: TPP "Secret Because If Details Were Made Public Now, The Public Would Oppose It'

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...oppose_it.html

    SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): The public has heard a lot but in all that time they've never actually seen the deal itself. In fact, the press hasn't seen the deal, economists haven't seen the deal, legal experts haven't seen the deal, most everyone in America hasn't seen the deal. Why? Because the administration has classified the deal making it illegal for any of those people to read it.

    Members of Congress, as Senator Manchin said, can read it so long as they go into a secret room and don't leave with any notes. But even members of Congress are prohibited from talking about the details in public or discussing the details with the people that they were sent to Washington to represent. And yet in the next day or two the Senate is scheduled to vote on whether to grease the skids to make that secret trade deal, the TPP, the law of the land. This isn't how democracy is supposed to work...

    So if there are no good reasons for secrecy here, that leaves only a bad reason. And believe it or not, it’s a reason I’ve heard people give multiple times. We should keep the deal secret because if the details were made public now, the public would oppose it. Well, that’s how our democracy is supposed to work. If the TPP is mostly done and the public wouldn’t support it if they could see it, then it shouldn’t become the law.



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  3. #2
    As someone who is generally open to a multi-lateral trade agreement, I am adamantly opposed to keeping it under wraps. This should be a no-brainer. (which is probably why those with no brains are doing it.)

    I am a staunch free-trader. I also think there is a role for governments to craft deals to lower the barriers to free trade. I don't buy the economic arguments of the left. I also have trouble with the "sovereignty" arguments, for the most part. What they are really saying is that local governments will lose the sovereign right to ban or limit products or services. You know, as opposed to just letting the individuals choose which products or services to buy. I am even open to TPA to allow a deal to get crafted with multi-lateral partners. I'm not one who thinks this is an abdication of Congressional responsibility as long as they get the up or down vote on the final agreement.

    I say all that because I could be open to TPP. Depending on how the agreement is crafted. But once the agreement is drafted in a final form, it needs to be examined. Fully. And in the open. Otherwise, it needs to be voted down. Period.

    There are serious concerns lingering. How are the IP provisions worded? Is the agreement legally binding or politically binding? If it's legally binding, it is a clear violation of our Constitution (not that anyone cares about that anymore). What is the potential political impact with China and other nations not in the agreement? These are all incredibly serious questions that need to be fully vetted. If we can't do that, then they can't approve it.

    You would think that if this deal were really so important to them (and I think it is), then they shouldn't risk its failure over the secrecy issue.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  4. #3
    And did Elizabeth Warren say how and why she considers the fact that government behaves this way to be a strong argument in favor of making government bigger, and giving it control over even more aspects of our lives?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  5. #4
    C'mon Liz, here's an easy one for you, public opposition about a really bad idea because it's a ___________________________ idea.

  6. #5
    Warren is absolutely correct !! Rand Paul should be working equally as hard to get the TPP dumped, as the Patriot Act. The TPP places major corporations such as Bank of America in charge of making rules and laws ... due to their great success (at ripping people off).

  7. #6
    We have to vote it into law to find out what's in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  8. #7
    This is a truism. There'd be no reason to keep it secret if not to prevent an upwelling of popular resistance to another Fascist manifesto written into law.

  9. #8
    Would you like to read some of the treaty? WikiLeaks has some. Links on left side of page. https://wikileaks.org/tpp-enviro/pressrelease.html



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Would you like to read some of the treaty? WikiLeaks has some. Links on left side of page. https://wikileaks.org/tpp-enviro/pressrelease.html
    Thanks for the link. This could have absolutely massive implications. There are a lot of important topics that were debated on whether it should be included in the deal or not. By the way, I wonder what the "Central Reserve Bank" under the "Investment Chapter" on Page #2 of this document relates to? I wonder if it relates to currency manipulations between the trading partners and how it would be classified to be illegal or not? The US was the only one that is listed as rejecting the proposal. Document can be found here:
    https://wikileaks.org/IMG/pdf/tpp-sa...-positions.pdf

    It is amazing the things that are in here and how long this final document must be. Here is just a small portion of the DL600 that is listed just below the "Central Reserve Bank" portion in the link above. The DL600 deals with investment contracts between people in the US and Chile and takes about debt/equity ratios. http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/chiusa...ex/Anex10F.pdf (This is just a small fraction of the other annex documents).
    Last edited by ord33; 05-28-2015 at 12:28 AM.
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles"




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