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Thread: Oil Spill Off Pristine Santa Barbara Coastline :(

  1. #1

    Oil Spill Off Pristine Santa Barbara Coastline :(



    For those unaware, the original environmental movement in this country was largely spawned right in Santa Barbara after an oil spill in 1969.

    http://media.independent.com/img/cro...ac8237c798b1ef

    As Refugio Oil Slick Spreads, Spill Estimate Rises

    Authorities Now Say 105,000 Gallons of Crude May Have Gushed From Pipeline

    Wednesday, May 20, 2015
    By Tyler Hayden

    By land and by sea, cleanup crews descended Wednesday morning on the Gaviota Coast as the major oil spill from the day before grew to cover nine miles of ocean along the shoreline. Initial estimates put the spill at approximately 21,000 gallons, but officials now fear as many as 105,000 gallons of crude oil may have leaked from the broken underground pipe operated by Plains All American Pipeline. Responders are still working to pin down the exact figure and to determine how much oil seeped into the ocean.

    The oil sheen has quickly spread down the coast from the spill site just west of Refugio State Beach; yesterday’s estimate put the oil slick, which has now split into two separate slicks, at four miles long with expectations it would only spread another two to four miles.

    According to information just released by local, state, and federal officials operating the Joint Information Center (JIC) that is overseeing the response effort, a Plains control room employee “saw abnormalities in the line and shut it down at approximately 11:30 a.m.” on Tuesday. Initial reports from local authorities stated that county firefighters responding to smells of gas were the first to spot the leak. Plains personnel then traveled to the spill site and “visually confirmed the release at 1:30 p.m.,” the JIC dispatch reads. County officials with the Office of Emergency Management originally stated on Tuesday that an abandoned and inactive pipeline had discharged a small amount of “leftover product.”

    The cause of the spill is still under investigation. The pipeline transports produced oil from ExxonMobil’s Las Flores Canyon Processing Facility near Refugio to the Plains-owned Gaviota pumping station. It shuttles an estimated 50,400 gallons of oil an hour. As of 9 a.m. this morning, vacuum trucks and skimmer boats had cleaned up approximately 6,090 gallons of oil. There are currently nine boats in the area.

    According to the JIC, the pipeline’s last internal inspection was just a few weeks ago. Before that, it was assessed in 2012, but the results of those inspections are not yet available. Industry standards for internal inspections typically occur on five-year schedules.

    Several citizens outraged by the response time of the oil spill cleanup and taking matters into their own hands, filling buckets just South of Refugio Beach (May 20, 2015)

    The JIC said it’s too early to tell how much the cleanup will cost. Plains is still working with state and federal officials to determine how much public agencies will be reimbursed for the work.

    ...

    Environmentalists and politicians have lined up to condemn the spill, oil drilling in general, and what they have called the slow and inadequate response of Plains. Here is a sample of those statements:

    State Senator Hannah-Beth Jackson: “Like so many of my constituents, I remain very concerned about the impact of the oil spill yesterday at Refugio Beach, the largest we have had in years in Santa Barbara County, and am continuing to monitor it closely. I commend the California State Parks, the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, the California Office of Emergency Services, the state Office of Spill Prevention and Response, the US Coast Guard and others who are working hard at the scene to respond. This is a tragic reminder of how precious our coastline and wildlife are, and the dangerous and detrimental impacts of oil drilling and oil operations. Just as the 1969 oil spill off the Santa Barbara coast spurred decades of environmental progress, I hope that this devastating situation renews our commitment to protect our coastline, and find safer forms of energy to power our state and our nation.”

    Santa Barbara County Supervisor Salud Carbajal: “First responders are doing heroic work responding to this crisis by rapidly cleaning up our beaches and protecting our coastline from further damage. Right now, we need to focus our efforts on the clean-up but this is a wake up call for all of us. We must make decreasing our reliance on fossil fuels a top priority and start expanding green energy alternatives and protecting our environment by increasing safety standards with stricter oversight and increased inspections.”

    State Assemblymember Das Williams: “I am deeply saddened and angered to see our beautiful Gaviota coast covered in crude oil and one of our most beloved beaches and campground closed. I am grateful for the first responders and cleanup crews who are working to limit the damage and address the mess. It is unacceptable that local people on the bluffs were the first ones to report the spill before the oil company did. We will also seek answers through a district hearing in the coming days to understand how a breach in the leak detection technology this serious could have occurred without raising alarms to the pipeline operator. We need answers to these serious questions and to find out why the response communication apparently broke down.”

    U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer: “This oil spill off the Santa Barbara coast is tragic. This highlights the dangers posed by these pipelines and underscores why I have spent decades fighting against oil drilling off the California coast. I hope that by deploying all necessary resources to clean up this spill, we can prevent even greater harm to wildlife and our local communities.”

    Dave Davis, President & CEO of the Environmental Council (CEC): “The Community Environmental Council is, like much of our community, feeling both shock and outrage over yesterday’s oil spill. For our founders, this is the worst type of déjà vu, recalling the 1969 oil spill over 45 years ago that spurred CEC’s formation. Sadly, we were born out of a dirty energy crisis, and we have made it our mission to transition the Santa Barbara region away from fossil fuels. Yesterday was both a step backward and a step forward in our fight to preserve the nature we love and protect the climate. The tragic Refugio oil spill off the Gaviota Coast – a unique bioregion that CEC fought successfully to protect in the 1970’s – is a sharp reminder of all that still needs to be done to defend our precious coast. Both our founders and the next generation of activists who comprise our team have been hit hard by the images of destruction, and we are feeling this spill at a visceral level.

    “We are dedicated to preserving this particular coastline not just because it is the right thing to do, but because it is a place we love. Our staff knows each beach not as a name on the map, but as a place where we surf, swim, walk, and bird-watch. It is where we bring our children; the place that we call home. On a practical level, we also know that this spill could not have happened in a worse place. Oil spills are devastating no matter where they occur, but Gaviota happens to be one of only five Mediterranean ecosystems in the world. It is a pivotal bioregion between the cooler waters of the north and the warmer south, with a vibrant diversity of species not found elsewhere.”
    http://www.independent.com/news/2015...stimate-rises/
    Last edited by dannno; 05-21-2015 at 11:29 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  3. #2
    Before:



    The number of times I've hung ten reeling down that point is in the dozens.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  5. #4
    Here we go....

    Huge Oversight Gap on Refugio Pipeline in Santa Barbara County

    How Did 2,500 Barrels of Oil Escape Without Notice

    Thursday, May 21, 2015
    By Nick Welsh

    It turns out that the Plains All American Pipeline, responsible for the most dramatic oil spill to hit the Santa Barbara coast in this century, is the only pipeline in all of Santa Barbara County operating outside the regulatory oversight of county energy planners and safety officers. “We’re flying blind,” said County Energy Division czar Kevin Drude. That’s because Plains All American took Santa Barbara County to court more than 20 years ago to restrict the county’s regulatory oversight. It won. The consequences of that victory appear to be bearing bitter fruit.

    Because the county was denied the regulatory authority to require that Plains equip its pipeline with an automatic shut-down valve in case of a rupture, The Santa Barbara Independent has discovered, the Plains pipeline is the only pipeline in the county without this automatic feature. Instead, the Plains pipeline must be shut down manually in case of such emergencies. According to Drude, the equipment the county requires — known as SCADA — of other pipeline operators is so sensitive it can detect the loss of 20 barrels of oil over a 20-hour period. By contrast, the Plains pipeline leaked about 2,500 barrels worth of oil in a matter of a few hours before the company’s crew manually shut it down.

    This isn’t to say the Plains pipeline has operated free of regulatory oversight. Since its inception in 1987, the pipeline has been subject to federal inspections. The feds farmed this function — via contract — out to the California Fire Marshal’s Office, but in 2013, The Santa Barbara Independent has learned, the Fire Marshal informed the Department of Transportation it would not renew its contract. Increasingly, the Fire Marshal’s office reported that it had been finding it difficult to retain or recruit experienced pipeline inspectors. Because the Fire Marshal’s office regarded its federal inspection work ancillary to its primary mission, it turned this duty back to the federal Department of Transportation, which in turn, gave it over to a relatively new and obscure federal agency called the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration — better known as PHMSA (pronounced “pimsa”), which then had to resume its function of inspecting all of California’s oil and gas pipelines.

    Organizations like Pipeline Safety Trust — which bird-dogs pipeline companies from an environmental safety vantage point — have expressed concern that PHMSA is too underfunded and understaffed to absorb so monumental a new burden. (In the last few months, Congress authorized the agency to hire 100 new pipeline inspectors. How many have been hired since then remains unclear.) In addition, Pipeline Safety Trust — which publishes a blog called The Smart Pig, the name of a key pipeline safety inspection process — reported there have been 175 “incidents” involving Plains All American pipelines throughout the United States — 11 in California — in the past 10 years. No deaths were caused and no injuries were reported from these incidents, but $24 million in property damage was inflicted. Reports vary as to the fines imposed, but in any case, they appear very low. The lowest that The Independent discovered is $185,000; the highest is $284,000. “In terms of the fines they impose, it’s really a lot less than they are authorized,” said Samya Lutz with the Pipeline Safety Trust. She added that the number of investigations launched by the federal pipeline safety agency was quite low in relation to the number of incidents.

    An incident is defined as any occurrence leading to loss of life, an injury requiring hospitalization, or property damage in excess of $50,000. If more than five barrels are spilled — or five gallons escapes the property lines — that, too, constitutes an incident. While there had been a half-gallon leak on the Plains pipeline by Refugio (pronounced Re-fu-hio) in the last few months, that was too small to be deemed an “incident.” Of the 11 Plains incidents that occurred in California, it remains unclear if any involved the Refugio pipeline.
    http://www.independent.com/news/2015...hing-pipeline/

    Admittedly a great article in regard to showing the ineffectiveness of federal safety regulations.
    Last edited by dannno; 05-21-2015 at 09:47 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Here we go....



    http://www.independent.com/news/2015...hing-pipeline/

    Admittedly a great article in regard to showing the ineffectiveness of federal safety regulations.

    Really it goes back to the lawsuit. Who was the judge? Which court?

    Automatic shutdowns work pretty good. Some real security is gained by inspecting and testing a shutdown device rather than miles of pipeline.

    It's coming down to the simple fact; America is addicted to oil and neglecting justice so they can simply continue using. Like heroin addicts collapsing one vein after another between overdoses. Its like a mass insanity, just running kinda slow, but clearly everyone who is a realist knows it is.

    The environmental organizations comments make me sick. It's all about image and money to them. They would not do anything to interfere with that even if it was functional enough to address the insanity.

    For example, oak trees are dying by the thousands right now. Environmental orgs say, "drought". Fact is the oaks have always survived that. What they refuse to know is that there was an additive to gasoline called MTBE burned between 1993 and 2003 on an EPA waiver to a ban on the additive.

    The combusted carbon from the additive falls on the landscape and runs into aquifers. What it does is causes water to repeal oxygen gas. First all of the coastal creeks lost their algae, then all their frogs, then the birds went. The Eualyptus green gum and blue gum showed effects because they are powerful condensers and the night condensations of water had no oxygen.

    The trace elements of oxygen in the water trigger the start of photosynthesis in algae and the trees. With the trees it also provides what the repellent in the sap is made from that protect the trees from parasites. The Euc's were dying from a lipid, leaf scale that came over from Australia with them, almost ineffective for over a 100 years. Suddenly by 2000 Eucs are dying by the thousands. The oaks suffer the same problem but it is from a beetle. It's taken years for it to become real visible, but I saw it in about 2002.

    I've seen young trees having the space between the bark and wood, the cambium layer filled with the beetle cuttings from boring into the heartwood while the beetle lived on the water stored in the cambium because the tree can't use it without the trace elements of oxygen in it. Tan oaks in the bay area went down because of that water stored in the trunks becoming infected with the phytophera fungus.

    The enviro orgs here don't even know the frogs are gone. In 2002 I was trying to get them to work with me to get the local TV station to point camera at the creeks void of the usual algae in mid summer. Ecoli from sewer outfalls is now fed high nitrate water from creeks right after the first rains. It used to be depleted of the nitrates by the algae through the summer.

    It must be collusion that has biologists claiming its dog poop, now I find bags of dog $#@! everywhere. The city makes about $3.5 mil off of parking tickets that from the street sweeping program that biologists recommended.

    Mass insanity? Or stupidity?
    Last edited by Christopher A. Brown; 05-22-2015 at 03:54 PM.

  7. #6

    Bad Behavior=oil

    This is a video I produced in 2010 to post as a response video to people effected by the gulf BP oil spill.

    After 3 days youtube blocked it from being posted as a response video. Then I started posting text comments with the link to it in videos comment sections. Then text posting from my channel was blocked.

    Think corporations stick together? Uh huh. Or maybe a big oil corp saw it and called up youtube and said, "We'll pay to stop it."

    https://www.youtube.com/v/aek2xO4kFXQ

    Last edited by Christopher A. Brown; 05-22-2015 at 04:03 PM.

  8. #7
    meh, externalities such as these won't effect my energy portfolio

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    meh, externalities such as these won't effect my energy portfolio
    I'm not worried about this company possibly going out of business over it, though it sounds like they are probably pretty big so they probably won't. But even if they did they'll just sell off their equipment to a company with a better safety record. It's the legislation that might come from it that could be harmful, but hey, energy is energy people need it.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  11. #9
    Whatever your opinion on oil, spilling it is bad. I don't think more rules need to be put in place. Damages from spills should be claimed at the responsible party which I guess is the transporter normally.
    "I am a bird"

  12. #10
    They'll get off with a minor slap on the wrist. Why do people stand for it?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Whatever your opinion on oil, spilling it is bad. I don't think more rules need to be put in place. Damages from spills should be claimed at the responsible party which I guess is the transporter normally.
    If there were courts that delivered justice, this would be great. But they don't, obsfucation is what you get so attorneys make money and the corporate entity gets to repaint the picture.

    This is a good reason something like a citizens grand jury that has serious jurisdictional authority OVER statute law courts as long as decisions are constitution, not even the supreme can overrule for that jurisdiction. Its the spirit of the tenth amendment manifesting, but even more localized within the states.

    When enough of them decide a certain direction in associated areas, a precedentual dominance develops that then can become state law, or even a federal law.

    The countermand amendment is a VERY good mechanism for getting rid of non function federal laws hampering states in a revised version of what we have that uses different priorities to do mostly the same thing we are doing 10 times more efficiently. Clear out the old ones and assure new ones are optimized along with the industry acting.

    Eventually, I feel corporate individual status needs to be revoked completely with industries applying for privilege now considered a right. Certain industries are very needed and will gain privilege, but that will be "above board" and in other cases they lose it. This puts a lot more commerce back onto individuals because they can be accountable as individuals when corporations have no ethics that are absolute.

    They refuse to defend the constitution, just for example of how they are, but they want the rights of individuals as a group, then each individual want their rights too after colluding with the others to evade accountability and exploit their individual rights collectively as a group. I a real world of big energy, corporations have to earn their rights by excellence in ethics as a group of individuals working together. When they do it we all appreciate it.
    Last edited by Christopher A. Brown; 05-24-2015 at 01:41 PM.

  14. #12
    This should be great for the economy. Think how much money will be spent cleaning this up
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  15. #13
    Shrugs. I am fine with an occasional accident as long as energy is cheap .

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Shrugs. I am fine with an occasional accident as long as energy is cheap .
    and common sense prevails once again....

  17. #15
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Shrugs. I am fine with an occasional accident as long as energy is cheap .
    As long as you're willing to pay the damages... problem is that doesn't happen.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    As long as you're willing to pay the damages... problem is that doesn't happen.
    Noone owns the ocean or beach, yes? If so, it's just another public works project that everyone pays for. Socialist waterways work just as well as 'Murica's socialist roads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Noone owns the ocean or beach, yes? If so, it's just another public works project that everyone pays for. Socialist waterways work just as well as 'Murica's socialist roads.
    Oil companies claim to pay for all of the damages - but really they just pay whatever the regulations require. Caps on liability, paying 'fines', leaving economic and private fallout in their wake..
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Oil companies claim to pay for all of the damages - but really they just pay whatever the regulations require. Caps on liability, paying 'fines', leaving economic and private fallout in their wake..
    Color me unsurprised. :P Big Oil gives a cut of their profit to the CA regime via lobbying or some other shady operations for those bene's, I betcha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  23. #20
    Don't worry the nuclear contamination from fukushima will break down the oil. Anyway this will get cleaned up like always. I remember getting oil on my skin there when I was a kid.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    Don't worry the nuclear contamination from fukushima will break down the oil. Anyway this will get cleaned up like always. I remember getting oil on my skin there when I was a kid.
    Yes, there are a lot of heavy natural oil seeps in the area - which is good in a sense because most of the damage will be contained to the local area of the spill. But refugio and el cap are pretty screwed... hopefully [super secret surf spot redacted] will be ok, as well as the next spot down called [another secret surf spot redacted] which probably has more sea life per acre than anywhere else within at least 20 miles, it's a state marine conservation area.

    El cap, princess of the coast (pay attention to the wave at the top at 1:14.....also wave at the bottom at 3:54)

    Last edited by dannno; 05-23-2015 at 04:23 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kfarnan View Post
    Why do people stand for it?

    Because they are corrupt and lazy? Just guessing. Hey, so long as it doesn't have a notable effect in their lives, why should they care, eh?

    Yes... a reset event is almost certainly needed because , just as with other parasitic creatures, humans of the Empire hive-mindset are not very likely ever to stop their march of consumption down the avenue of time. We are possibly past the natural carrying capacity of the planet and I do believe in the greater intelligence that will at some point correct the errant children. Those corrections, if observations of other populations are valid indicators, tend to be large, carry very harsh qualities, and are administered with utter indifference to the plight of the individual.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    As long as you're willing to pay the damages... problem is that doesn't happen.
    Looking at the money that was spent repaying the damages from the Gulf spill a few years ago, it's pretty clear to me that the greenies will never be paid enough to be satiated.

    And it isn't your land - who exactly was damaged? Surely you're not advocating that the government should shake down energy companies for "damages," are you?

  27. #24
    moderate earthquakes up and down the west coast lately may be the culprit. A new Volcanoe is forming in the ocean just off of Oregon.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Looking at the money that was spent repaying the damages from the Gulf spill a few years ago, it's pretty clear to me that the greenies will never be paid enough to be satiated.

    And it isn't your land - who exactly was damaged? Surely you're not advocating that the government should shake down energy companies for "damages," are you?
    No they should clean up their $#@!.

    The "greenies" don't want money for damages; local businesses do. "Greenies" want the companies that make the mess to put man hours on beaches; solutions other than, pay fine then sink the oil to the bottom and forget it.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    As long as you're willing to pay the damages... problem is that doesn't happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Noone owns the ocean or beach, yes? If so, it's just another public works project that everyone pays for. Socialist waterways work just as well as 'Murica's socialist roads.
    We all own the resources. The natural habitats are part of a balance we do not want to upset.

    Corporate personhood is largely to blame for this, because they act with impunity over time buying off courts through obscure methods. Basically, if there was one responsible person, they would never allow something like this to happen just to enable increased profits.

    The automatic shutoff valves are costly and they have a built in maintenance cost. Shareholders want the highest profits, CEO's are known to be sociopaths. Given the proper connections, reasonable safeguards can always be bypassed.

    With a lawful and peaceful revolution, we can eventually remove corporate personhood.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ful-revolution

    We can do anything needed, and if things like this are happening, it is needed. The lawful and peaceful revolution has a massive education built into it with the ending of the abridging of the purpose of free speech. After that, not only will political decisions be easier to make with accuracy, people will realize that there is a certain amount of change they themselves must expect.

    We've been living in a bubble of a false economy for about 50 years. The way we do what we do is just not a wise use of resource. Most of it is tailored to corporate profits rather than actual economy, certainly not ecology.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher A. Brown View Post
    We all own the resources. The natural habitats are part of a balance we do not want to upset.

    Corporate personhood is largely to blame for this, because they act with impunity over time buying off courts through obscure methods. Basically, if there was one responsible person, they would never allow something like this to happen just to enable increased profits.

    The automatic shutoff valves are costly and they have a built in maintenance cost. Shareholders want the highest profits, CEO's are known to be sociopaths. Given the proper connections, reasonable safeguards can always be bypassed.

    With a lawful and peaceful revolution, we can eventually remove corporate personhood.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ful-revolution

    We can do anything needed, and if things like this are happening, it is needed. The lawful and peaceful revolution has a massive education built into it with the ending of the abridging of the purpose of free speech. After that, not only will political decisions be easier to make with accuracy, people will realize that there is a certain amount of change they themselves must expect.

    We've been living in a bubble of a false economy for about 50 years. The way we do what we do is just not a wise use of resource. Most of it is tailored to corporate profits rather than actual economy, certainly not ecology.
    Meh, that sort of egalitarian property theory has been tried many times. It only "works" in situations like monastic communes. Hell, Plymouth Colony's population would've died off had William Bardford not turned the public land into private tracts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Meh, that sort of egalitarian property theory has been tried many times. It only "works" in situations like monastic communes. Hell, Plymouth Colony's population would've died off had William Bardford not turned the public land into private tracts.
    If you knew what was hidden about life and the other ways to live it you would not say that.

    The abridging of the purpose of free speech prevents you from knowing that and much more. The education that will come after the abridging of the purpose is ended will awaken Americans to greater possibilities for happiness than consumerism can even imagine.

    The alternative of doing nothing has Agenda 21 which wants to force or compel the changes. The resistance to that is creating conflicts that have the opposite effect of what they intend. That is a lose-lose. Would you rather have that?

    Corporate personhood is different from private property, did you know that? What I posted has nothing to do with private property. It's about Article V and stopping tyranny.

    How screwed are we if the tyrants trash the ocean so bad we can't go fishing to survive?

    The effects of corporate personhood are condemning private property on a daily basis, is that okay?
    Last edited by Christopher A. Brown; 05-24-2015 at 10:19 PM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    No they should clean up their $#@!.

    The "greenies" don't want money for damages; local businesses do. "Greenies" want the companies that make the mess to put man hours on beaches; solutions other than, pay fine then sink the oil to the bottom and forget it.
    Again, I stand by my original statement - from what I have seen no amount of money will satiate the butthurt. When the gulf spill happned, they bought out all the businesses and fishrman, paid billions to the government and spent billions cleaning up the mess.

    All we heard (and hear) was that it was not enough, and that the gulf is mucked up forevr, blah blah blah.

    Again, I'd rather have the occasional accident as long as energy is cheap. All this self-loathing Westerner crap is annoying.
    Last edited by angelatc; 05-24-2015 at 10:25 PM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Again, I stand by my original statement - from what I have seen no amount of money will satiate the butthurt.
    There are actually other impacts from oil that are not visible now, which will have destroyed a lot of resource and habitat that cannot be replaced with any amount of money. Not spills or anything like that. Simply an additive that was banned by the EPA because after precipitation in closed system tests, everything died, but the oil industry pulled a fast one and got a waiver to blend it 11% of every gallon.

    It created such problems, the governor banned it. Then methanex of Canada sued him. He used defenses of a California and Federal law. The tribunal court under
    NAFTA rejected all that and he had to make a deal to let them dispense it for 2 more years until 2002.

    NAFTA usurped US law in US territory. Sounds like treason don't it?

    Now the sad thing is that a major impact is going to take 20 years to be visible. People have not even figured out what is happening yet.

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