Biker Shootout in Waco: Multiple fatalities

[Proph]

He disagrees with me!

He's a crankhead!

Ban him,...quick!

*rolling eyes*

So, reading comprehension skills do appear to be the problem!

[Smitty]

,...and I ain't the problem.

that's right,.....that's right,...

[Smitty]

So, reading comprehension skills do appear to be the problem!

No,...you're really not complex enough to give me comprehension problems,

You pretty much right in there with "Green Eggs and Ham"

[devil21]

What the hell happened to this thread? Someone musta struck a serious nerve. Looks like thread sliding 101.

[Smitty]

Well,...basically I opined that outlaw bikers had the potential to be $#@!s.

Then the pekkerhead stampede ensued.

So,...the rest of the thread was dedicated to warding off the pekkerhead stampede.

[Anti Federalist]

What the hell happened to this thread? Someone musta struck a serious nerve. Looks like thread sliding 101.

Let me get it back on track.

False Flags, Biker Gangs, and the PATCON Legacy

William Norman Grigg

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...patcon-legacy/

The bloody incident at Waco’s Twin Peaks restaurant was not a “biker shootout.” At present there is no evidence that any of the nine victims were killed by fellow bikers, rather than being “taken out” by the scores of police — including snipers — who had effectively turned the parking lot into a kill zone.

The Twin Peaks Massacre has prompted the predictable outpouring of state-centered outrage over the purported threat posed by Outlaw Motorcycle Clubs (OMCs). Buried beneath the blizzard of re-purposed official press releases is a critical disclosure made by former FBI undercover operative John Matthews: During the 1990s, as part of the FBI’s PATCON (Patriot Conspiracy) operation, Matthews and his handler, Donald Jarrett, sold illegally converted full-auto machine guns to narcotics-dealing motorcycle gangs. (I first reported about this in early March.) This was done through one of the firearms stores later forced by the ATF into participating in the “Fast & Furious” gun-walking scandal, in which firearms of that kind were provided to operatives of Mexican criminal cartels.

“As we talk of gun control … over the years [of] how many cases of sporterized SKS, AK47s, and SKSs were sold to groups and case after case of ammo for them all with the blessings of the FBI & ATF with no paper work,” Matthews wrote in a November 8, 2014 email (lightly edited here for spelling and grammar). “Also let’s not forget the AR15s, they were made full auto from the Lone Wolf gun store back in the 90s by a guy brought in by the FBI for me to put in place. Those guns went to bikers who were sell[ing] drugs on the border. Those drugs were [believed] to be coming in from China.”

In March 2013 correspondence with Jarrett, Matthews referred to the David Mann, the dealer brought in by the FBI to broker the firearms transaction with the biker gang.

“I [would] pick him up in Payson, AZ on our way up to Surplus & Stuff in Snowflake … and met with a guy name[d] Tim,” Matthews recalled in a March 28, 2013 email to Jarrett. “He [would] show him his weapons that he was making and how he could make them anything they wanted. Then from there we took a trip up to where the guy [kept] the tractors that we were thinking the dope was coming in from.”

The tractors were apparently being used as part of an international narcotics smuggling operation.

During the trip recalled by Matthews, he and David Mann met with another individual who “ran the church and we [thought was] selling the drugs to the bikers. We were going to get David to sell weapons too [sic] them. This trip was where [I] got David in with this [sic] guys so I could move on. Does this sound right to you[?] Also have more info on him and [meetings] at gun store (Lone Wolf) and other places like Scottsdale, before we turn[ed] him loose.”

“Yes, that sounds absolutely correct about David,” Jarrett replied the following day. “I only introduced you to one guy that work[ed] with guns, and that was David.”

On March 2 I sent a letter to the Justice Department’s Office of Inspector General requesting an investigation of Matthews’ confirmed claims about the FBI’s role in arming biker gangs. A week later I received an official reply that tacitly validated those claims while dismissing them as inconsequential: “The Investigations Division of the Office of the Inspector General has thoroughly reviewed your allegations and concluded that the issues raised do not warrant an investigation by this office.”

Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue, who has been investigating the death of his brother Kenneth in FBI custody following the 1995, following the 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing, has been responsible for nearly all of the key disclosures regarding the PATCON program. This was an effort by the FBI to infiltrate so-called Radical Right groups with informants and provocateurs. In a telephone interview, Trentadue told me that he firmly believes that there is a connection between the PATCON-related FBI initiative to arm biker gangs, and the bloodshed in Waco over the weekend.

“At the very least, we’re dealing with part of the legacy of PATCON,” Trentadue declared.

PATCON wasn’t the FBI’s only means of infiltrating OMCs. In 2004, James “Pagan Ronnie” Howerton, a prominent member of the Pagans OMC and a convicted murderer, was recruited by the FBI. He eventually became the club’s sergeant-at-arms. Five years later, the Feds breathlessly announced that with the help of their undercover asset they had compiled a massive indictment against the Pagans as an interstate criminal conspiracy. That bloated indictment eventually deflated into a small number of relatively trivial charges against specific members of the club. The interstate “criminal enterprise” was reduced to the accusation that the Pagans had committed a federal offense by running a raffle.

The only notable violent crime arising from the federal investigation of the Pagans was the police murder of Iraq combat veteran Derek Hale, who was tasered a dozen times and then murdered, execution-style, by Lt. William Brown of the Wilmington, Delaware Police Department. Hale, who was killed in front of the wife and children of a friend from the club, had no criminal record, nor was he a criminal suspect. He died because the State’s officially licensed gang decided to wage an indiscriminate war on the motorcycle club to which he belonged — which, in all probability, is what happened in Waco over the weekend.

[Occam's Banana]

Yes, there are.

This is not about "idiot outlaw bikers" any more than Baltimore was about "thuggish ******s" or Waco was about "perverted cultists" or Ruby Ridge was about "white cracker seperatists".

This is about what an increasingly militarized police force, and the government it protects, does to citizens it feels are a "threat".

I submit nothing could be more important.

Hammer, meet nail-head. Nail-head, hammer ...

[Origanalist]

You got no neg reps from me and you won't.

Say what ya want to say, guy.

I may not agree, but I'll listen.

It's the libertarian way.

The /// is only there because if you don't leave three symbols outside of a quote you can't post.

[Origanalist]

Hammer, meet nail-head. Nail-head, hammer ...

Hammer and tongs.....?

[pcosmar]

What the hell happened to this thread? Someone musta struck a serious nerve. Looks like thread sliding 101.

Bingo.
We have an Authoritarian with no concept of Liberty derailing the thread in defense of Authoritarianism.

Not all that uncommon here lately.

[tod evans]

Bingo.
We have an Authoritarian with no concept of Liberty derailing the thread in defense of Authoritarianism.

Not all that uncommon here lately.

There's a couple of 'em.....

Wonder if their supervisor will buy donuts for their cubicle this morning....

[pcosmar]

Let me get it back on track.

False Flags, Biker Gangs, and the PATCON Legacy
[/B]

Grigg is great as usual..

and on that same track.. Ruby Ridge was another such.. undercover Agent coercing someone to Saw off a shotgun,, for an undercover agent posing as a gang member.

Hutaree also.. Undercover Agent was the Bomb Maker.

World trade Center Bombing,, Undercover supplied Plans, location, and explosives. There would have been no bombing at all if not for Fed instigators.

This seems to be a repeated pattern.

The only criminals were the Cops..

[Carlybee]

//

Restaurant security video reviewed exclusively by The Associated Press showed only one of the dozens of bikers recorded was seen firing a gun from the patio of the Twin Peaks restaurant where nine people were killed.

[pcosmar]

//

So one person returned fire AFTER the shooting started..

I had seen other reports of the security Video.. Folks (likely CCW holders) drew weapons after the shooting started..
They also reported that Bikers were shielding and aiding other patrons inside the Bar. And there was NO fight inside the Bar.. the shooting came from outside.

[Brian4Liberty]

The leftist media is making a grave mistake by ignoring this story.

[Anti Federalist]

Just another example of how it is nothing but race to most on the left.

They don't give a $#@! about this because it just a bunch of white guys.

It's not black vs. white.

It's Blue vs. Us.

The leftist media is making a grave mistake by ignoring this story.

[devil21]

Anybody else wondering if the "cops" involved aren't actually police? The trend I'm seeing lately, also seen in the 'ISIS' incident among others, is the use of contractors labeled by the media as "private security". Outfitting the police with military weapons and outfits can lead to much confusion as to who the actual shooters are working for. It's now nearly impossible to tell the difference between a swat cop, a soldier and a contractor (mercenary, maybe even foreign) upon sight.

This is why I thought it very curious that the people running Jade Helm are not active military, but rather are working for contractors.
---------------
I never forget this thread I started years ago, wondering what possibly could be so secretive as to grant complete diplomatic immunity to INTERPOL (int'l police) right at the beginning of the Obama administration. Who knows what kind of people are coming in and out of this country, as INTERPOL, doing anything they want without any oversight or constitutional restrictions whatsoever.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-16!-IMPORTANT

[Brian4Liberty]

[presence]

yeah but it was a leather clad crowd that rode motorcycles so its ok

[Carlybee]

I contacted someone I know "who would probably know what went down" and the response was "Call me tomorrow and I'll tell you what's going on between the Nutsacks and the Bandidos". And no, it's not a cop.

[pcosmar]

I contacted someone I know "who would probably know what went down" and the response was "Call me tomorrow and I'll tell you what's going on between the Nutsacks and the Bandidos". And no, it's not a cop.

What does that have to do with anything?


This is not about them.. This is about the police firing on a crowd.

Watch the video.. Take the time,, listen to the issues.. That is what this is about.
Legislation and the Fight for Rights.



The rest of that is just bull$#@! smokescreen.

[Carlybee]

What does that have to do with anything?


This is not about them.. This is about the police firing on a crowd.

Watch the video.. Take the time,, listen to the issues.. That is what this is about.
Legislation and the Fight for Rights.



The rest of that is just bull$#@! smokescreen.

I understand what it's about. I'm trying to find some input from a somewhat insider that isn't coming from the mainstream media. You need to stop getting your hackles up everytime anyone says anything.

[pcosmar]

I understand what it's about. I'm trying to find some input from a somewhat insider that isn't coming from the mainstream media. You need to stop getting your hackles up everytime anyone says anything.

I was responding to your quote of someone

"Call me tomorrow and I'll tell you what's going on between the Nutsacks and the Bandidos"

I assume he was referring (derogatorily) to the Cossacks.
Most of the dead were Cossacks,, and One Bandido. And the one Bandido was an older gentleman with NO criminal history.

Two of the Dead Cossacks had minor criminal infraction in the past,

any differences between Clubs was not the reason any of them were there.

That is one of the Police lies that keeps being repeated.

Police say a fight started in the bathroom..
That is a LIE..
Video inside the Restaurant shows otherwise.

They say these folk came to Waco for Violence.
That is a LIE
They also said it was a recruiting meeting
That is a LIE
These folks came as a political action. Fighting for Motorcycle Rights,, Writing and promoting Legislation.

They are saying they are all Criminal Gang Members
This is also a LIE.


There may have been some altercation,, or maybe not. Maybe guys just talking loud and horse-playing.

They say someone pulled a gun..

Cops say that when someone has a TV remote,, A Cell phone or a garden hose in their hand.

The Police LIE. The Media repeats the police Lie. over and over and over so that people will believe it.

[Carlybee]

I was responding to your quote of someone


I assume he was referring (derogatorily) to the Cossacks.
Most of the dead were Cossacks,, and One Bandido. And the one Bandido was an older gentleman with NO criminal history.

Two of the Dead Cossacks had minor criminal infraction in the past,

any differences between Clubs was not the reason any of them were there.

That is one of the Police lies that keeps being repeated.

Police say a fight started in the bathroom..
That is a LIE..
Video inside the Restaurant shows otherwise.

They say these folk came to Waco for Violence.
That is a LIE
They also said it was a recruiting meeting
That is a LIE
These folks came as a political action. Fighting for Motorcycle Rights,, Writing and promoting Legislation.

They are saying they are all Criminal Gang Members
This is also a LIE.


There may have been some altercation,, or maybe not. Maybe guys just talking loud and horse-playing.

They say someone pulled a gun..

Cops say that when someone has a TV remote,, A Cell phone or a garden hose in their hand.

The Police LIE. The Media repeats the police Lie. over and over and over so that people will believe it.

Yes Pete we get it. The police LIE. Keep drilling that because we're all too stupid to have gotten the first 500 times you said it. I just said I am trying to get some info outside of the media which means regardless of my contact's knowledge of the dynamic between the clubs, there may be some info from eyewitnesses about what went down inside and out. Stop shooting the messenger. I will take the word of someone who has heard it firsthand over someone who is reading and interpreting from the internet. For all we know one of the club members could have been a snitch and helped facilitate this thing going down. There's some very bad blood in some quarters. That's why I'm trying to find out, which isn't that easy because these people don't generally talk about club business to outsiders. FYI..and I hate to burst your bubble but yes some of them are engaged in criminal activity so stop trying to make them all sound like little angels...it's irrelevant to what happened here, but it is a fact and I know of someone who was murdered in cold blood by some and it was a planned hit, so you need to stop putting that narrative out there. The big majority are okay, but not all and that's a fact. I grew up in Texas. I know some of the history. Does that excuse what went down? Of course not. It's a planned round up that has been going on and off for years. This one was just more deadly, public and made the news.

[pcosmar]

Criminal Meeting’ of Bikers in Waco was Actually Organized Political Gathering
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/...cal-gathering/

Despite the characterization by police that the afternoon gathering at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas that led to Sunday’s bloody shooting incident was a gathering of criminal biker gangs with violent intent, the meeting appears to have been a legitimate, organized gathering of motorcycle riders meeting to discuss political issues.

The group that met was the Texas Confederation of Clubs and Independents (CoC&I) and a look at that group’s website and history gives a very different impression of the group’s purpose and goals than what has been said repeatedly by Waco police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton.

[HankRicther12]

Anybody else wondering if the "cops" involved aren't actually police? The trend I'm seeing lately, also seen in the 'ISIS' incident among others, is the use of contractors labeled by the media as "private security". Outfitting the police with military weapons and outfits can lead to much confusion as to who the actual shooters are working for. It's now nearly impossible to tell the difference between a swat cop, a soldier and a contractor (mercenary, maybe even foreign) upon sight.

This is why I thought it very curious that the people running Jade Helm are not active military, but rather are working for contractors.
---------------
I never forget this thread I started years ago, wondering what possibly could be so secretive as to grant complete diplomatic immunity to INTERPOL (int'l police) right at the beginning of the Obama administration. Who knows what kind of people are coming in and out of this country, as INTERPOL, doing anything they want without any oversight or constitutional restrictions whatsoever.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-16!-IMPORTANT

I think this is something more people should consider. I already said it in another post but as I look at many of the complaints on these boards everything is just "cops" when in many of the incidents it was federal agents not local police. I would say start paying attention to how the media and the Pres etc are actually turning on local cops and perhaps the reason for that is the many local departments/sheriffs who openly refused to enforce federal mandates or proclaimed they would refuse to enforce them if ever they are implemented.

Just maybe, the local cops are more on your side than you think. I understand there are still valid issues and concerns about local police, and that's not say I agree with most of the things I see them attacked for, but I'd say there is a rift forming between local law enforcement and the federal govt.

[acptulsa]

...but I'd say there is a rift forming between local law enforcement and the federal govt.

That sounds real nice, but since the fedgov started printing funny money like it's going out of style anyway, and giving it away in the form of nifty, wazoo-looking military equipment so crappy that the wealthiest military in history won't buy it, I haven't seen any evidence that you can separate the locals and the feds with a crowbar.

[Carlybee]

I think this is something more people should consider. I already said it in another post but as I look at many of the complaints on these boards everything is just "cops" when in many of the incidents it was federal agents not local police. I would say start paying attention to how the media and the Pres etc are actually turning on local cops and perhaps the reason for that is the many local departments/sheriffs who openly refused to enforce federal mandates or proclaimed they would refuse to enforce them if ever they are implemented.

Just maybe, the local cops are more on your side than you think. I understand there are still valid issues and concerns about local police, and that's not say I agree with most of the things I see them attacked for, but I'd say there is a rift forming between local law enforcement and the federal govt.

How is there a rift when they train with them and the federal govt is who is militarizing them? I don't see any locals standing up and protesting that.

[HankRicther12]

How is there a rift when they train with them and the federal govt is who is militarizing them? I don't see any locals standing up and protesting that.

The military equipment is indeed disturbing, but several towns are standing up to, hope more do, but I was referring more toward gun laws:

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn...ional-gun-laws

[Carlybee]

The military equipment is indeed disturbing, but several towns are standing up to, hope more do, but I was referring more toward gun laws:

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn...ional-gun-laws

Sheriffs maybe. Local cops..doubtful. I would hope there's some Oathkeepers out there as well.