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Thread: Our US Constitution is NOT a social contract.

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    the fedgov has CLEARLY turned into a MONSTER that it was never intended to be. how did this happen?
    So, the answer is: you can not post the passage.



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    the constitution was designed to prevent this from happening.
    Why do you believe that?

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    really?
    that would seem a trifle odd to me. 1776 to 1791 = 15 years.
    they had plenty of time for consideration. and yet!
    they missed the gem that you are now about to share with us? or, did you just state (I hate that word!) this as a point of known fact?
    Known fact.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Can you elaborate?
    Sure. The DOI says that any powers exercised without the consent of the people are unjust, and the Constitution enumerates a whole bunch of powers to be exercised without the consent of the people.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Sure. The DOI says that any powers exercised without the consent of the people are unjust, and the Constitution enumerates a whole bunch of powers to be exercised without the consent of the people.
    Uh huh, this.

    Which is why we now live in a "regulatory state", that passes regulations without representation that carry the force of law.

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Uh huh, this.

    Which is why we now live in a "regulatory state", that passes regulations without representation that carry the force of law gangsters with guns.
    Acme Sentence Repair, at your service.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It works just fine. For every purpose except yours, which is to remain in denial.
    If that was true you would be able to explain your plan to create the needed unity to overthrow the tyrants. Get started with your next post, okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You're trying to sell a snake oil miracle drug that you haven't the articulation to describe. Which is why you keep going off your sales talk to attack everyone who asks you a question about it.

    Failure is blaming the customer for the fact that the product, the salesman, or both suck.
    People have not been asking questions about it, that's the problem. They know its sound. Only agents object to it.

    The product is freedom and everyone here is supposed to be interested in that, you resist more than most.

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Sure. The DOI says that any powers exercised without the consent of the people are unjust, and the Constitution enumerates a whole bunch of powers to be exercised without the consent of the people.
    And those are negative rights on the government. Not that they follow them.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher A. Brown View Post
    The product is freedom and everyone here is supposed to be interested in that, you resist more than most.
    Now you're contradicting yourself. You weren't claiming to sell freedom, but unity through a shared belief in your dogma that free speech serves no purpose other than alter abolish blah blah blah. You weren't selling clean dishes, you were selling dish soap. And your dish soap seems to lack detergent, and you can't or won't explain how it works.

    'Get every single dirty dish to unanimously agree that this goop I just pulled out of my differential is soap, and they will instantly be clean as a whistle!!'

    And no one is asking questions because when we did, you not only failed to answer any of them, but attacked everyone who asked.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-25-2015 at 07:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Sure. The DOI says that any powers exercised without the consent of the people are unjust, and the Constitution enumerates a whole bunch of powers to be exercised without the consent of the people.
    FFs: "Lissen up, everybody! We're here to protect your RIGHTS! Do we have your consent?"
    People: "I dunno....it's sounds too good to be true...what's the downside?"
    FFs: "There IS NO downside! A downside would mean violating your Rights without your consent! Do we have a deal?"
    People: "Sure! We'd be stupid NOT to!"
    FF's: "Great! Now give us your money."
    People: "Woah...hold on...you can't do that."
    FF's: "Of course we can...you gave us your consent ."
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    FFs: "Lissen up, everybody! We're here to protect your RIGHTS! Do we have your consent?"
    People: "I dunno....it's sounds too good to be true...what's the downside?"
    FFs: "There IS NO downside! A downside would mean violating your Rights without your consent! Do we have a deal?"
    People: "Sure! We'd be stupid NOT to!"
    FF's: "Great! Now give us your money."
    People: "Woah...hold on...you can't do that."
    FF's: "Of course we can...you gave us your consent ."

    +rep
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Now you're contradicting yourself. You weren't claiming to sell freedom, but unity through a shared belief in your dogma that free speech serves no purpose other than alter abolish
    That is untrue. You will be unable to quote me saying such. You misrepresent exactly as a covert manipulating agent would.

    The product of unity is freedom, I'm not selling it.

    You misrepresent that I say that free speech has "no purpose other than [to] alter [or] abolish.

    Free speech serves infinite purposes, but its ultimate purpose is to assure survival, or to stop tyrants destruction to our unalienable rights.
    Last edited by Christopher A. Brown; 05-25-2015 at 07:56 PM.

  15. #133
    Let's assume for a moment government knows best just for giggles and grins to argue the OP. I do not understand how one can promote the Constitution yet claim it does not apply to people. Let us take into consideration for a moment how government has interpreted it. In order to amend the AoC the document required agreement among all states. The Constitution only required ratification of like nine states. The theory goes the source of power of any state is the people therefore the people can override the AoC. They didn't make that theory up totally out of the blue but claims it goes back to the DoI declaring people have the right to change their government, etc. Hence "We the People." On a side note, that in itself is some interesting language. Why do you need we and people in the same phrase? Aren't they both plural? Clearly we can not logically equal people and refer to the same exact thing. Government has always interpreted the Constitution to mean it applies to states and people whereas the AoC only applied to states. Since government has the guns and that is the interpretation that has been coerced upon everyone ... what is the argument exactly? I mean on what basis are you suggesting the constitution does not apply to people or for that matter we the people? Are you proposing some new ethical theory where you are trying to declare your legal theory and interpretation of the constitution is more ethical that how it has been interpreted thus far?

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Live_Free_Or_Die View Post
    Let's assume for a moment government knows best just for giggles and grins to argue the OP. I do not understand how one can promote the Constitution yet claim it does not apply to people. Let us take into consideration for a moment how government has interpreted it. In order to amend the AoC the document required agreement among all states. The Constitution only required ratification of like nine states. The theory goes the source of power of any state is the people therefore the people can override the AoC. They didn't make that theory up totally out of the blue but claims it goes back to the DoI declaring people have the right to change their government, etc. Hence "We the People." On a side note, that in itself is some interesting language. Why do you need we and people in the same phrase? Aren't they both plural? Clearly we can not logically equal people and refer to the same exact thing. Government has always interpreted the Constitution to mean it applies to states and people whereas the AoC only applied to states. Since government has the guns and that is the interpretation that has been coerced upon everyone ... what is the argument exactly? I mean on what basis are you suggesting the constitution does not apply to people or for that matter we the people? Are you proposing some new ethical theory where you are trying to declare your legal theory and interpretation of the constitution is more ethical that how it has been interpreted thus far?
    what is the argument exactly? I mean on what basis are you suggesting the constitution does not apply to people or for that matter we the people?
    what you are asking sir, is for me to prove a negative. this is not something that I can do.

    separate the original Constitution from the BOR and all of the amendments.
    the BOR was added 3 years later.

    now, can you see what I am talking about?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  17. #135
    Would you agree HVAC that they should have explicitly stated as much in the constitution? i.e. would it be smart of us to make a constitutional amendment that clarifies the only authority the federal government has is over the states which wish to be a part of the union?

    And (for my own reading pleasure) which authors of the constitution did you find to have the most 'anarchist' tendencies or alignment?

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Would you agree HVAC that they should have explicitly stated as much in the constitution? i.e. would it be smart of us to make a constitutional amendment that clarifies the only authority the federal government has is over the states which wish to be a part of the union?

    And (for my own reading pleasure) which authors of the constitution did you find to have the most 'anarchist' tendencies or alignment?
    yes, I do.
    as can be seen in this very thread. there is MUCH confusion over this point.
    we can now look back over 239 years and do an analysis.

    I am of the opinion, that the founders wanted to protect the anarchists, from both themselves and the statists.
    government, (the state) is in fact the problem, lack of government also creates problems.

    to me, it is VERY clear that the founders were not statists. were they therefore anarchists?
    probably.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.



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  20. #137
    //
    Last edited by HVACTech; 05-31-2015 at 02:56 PM.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  21. #138
    Where the people are free there can be no great contrast or distinction among honest citizens in or out of office. In proportion, as the people lose their freedom, every gradation of distinction, between the Governors and governed obtains, until the former become masters, and the latter become slaves. – Anti-Federalist No. 3

  22. #139
    I am confident it must be, and that it is, the sincere wish of every true friend to the United States, that there should be a confederated national government, but that it should be one which would have a control over national and external matters only, and not interfere with the internal regulations and police of the different states in the union. Such a government, while it would give us respectability abroad, would not encroach upon, or subvert our liberties at home." – Anti-Federalist No. 5

  23. #140
    The source of the apprehensions of this so much dreaded anarchy would upon investigation be found to arise from the artful suggestions of designing men, and not from a rational probability grounded on the actual state of affairs. The least reflection is sufficient to detect the fallacy to show that there is no one circumstance to justify the prediction of such an event. On the contrary a short time will evince, to the utter dismay and confusion of the conspirators, that a perseverance in cramming down their scheme of power upon the freemen of this State [Pennsylvania] will inevitably produce an anarchy destructive of their darling domination, and may kindle a flame prejudicial to their safety. They should be cautious not to trespass too far on the forbearance of freemen when wresting their dearest concerns, but prudently retreat from the gathering storm. – Anti-Federalist No. 6

  24. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    FFs: "Lissen up, everybody! We're here to protect your RIGHTS! Do we have your consent?"
    People: "I dunno....it's sounds too good to be true...what's the downside?"
    FFs: "There IS NO downside! A downside would mean violating your Rights without your consent! Do we have a deal?"
    People: "Sure! We'd be stupid NOT to!"
    FF's: "Great! Now give us your money."
    People: "Woah...hold on...you can't do that."
    FF's: "Of course we can...you gave us your consent ."
    +rep
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  25. #142
    AF, erowe, et. al have brought so much win into this thread that I regretfully cannot +rep all of it. Beg your pardon, amigos. Peace unto y'all and keep up the good work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  26. #143
    "A principal, which having been generally purchased for two shillings and six pence on the pound, will yield to the holders two hundred and forty per cent. This paper system therefore, though in general an evil, is in this instance attended with the great benefit of enabling the public to cancel a debt upon easy terms, which has been swelled to its enormous size, by as enormous impositions. And the new government, by promising too much, will involve itself in a disreputable breach of faith." - Anti-Federalist No. 12

  27. #144
    "If the constitution, offered to your acceptance, be a wise one, calculated to preserve the invaluable blessings of liberty, to secure the inestimable rights of mankind, and promote human happiness, then, if you accept it, you will lay a lasting foundation of happiness for millions yet unborn; generations to come will rise up and call you blessed. You may rejoice in the prospects of this vast extended continent becoming filled with freemen, who will assert the dignity of human nature. You may solace yourselves with the idea, that society, in this favoured land, will fast advance to the highest point of perfection; the human mind will expand in knowledge and virtue, and the golden age be, in some measure, realised. But if, on the other hand, this form of government contains principles that will lead to the subversion of liberty—if it tends to establish a despotism, or, what is worse, a tyrannic aristocracy; then, if you adopt it, this only remaining assylum for liberty will be shut up, and posterity will execrate your memory." – Anti-Federalist No. 17



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    "If the constitution, offered to your acceptance, be a wise one, calculated to preserve the invaluable blessings of liberty, to secure the inestimable rights of mankind, and promote human happiness, then, if you accept it, you will lay a lasting foundation of happiness for millions yet unborn; generations to come will rise up and call you blessed. You may rejoice in the prospects of this vast extended continent becoming filled with freemen, who will assert the dignity of human nature. You may solace yourselves with the idea, that society, in this favoured land, will fast advance to the highest point of perfection; the human mind will expand in knowledge and virtue, and the golden age be, in some measure, realised. But if, on the other hand, this form of government contains principles that will lead to the subversion of liberty—if it tends to establish a despotism, or, what is worse, a tyrannic aristocracy; then, if you adopt it, this only remaining assylum for liberty will be shut up, and posterity will execrate your memory." – Anti-Federalist No. 17
    thank you AF for your wise counsel.
    I will now request that my account be closed. (casey jones style) and leave the country.

    as you well know, many of us became ex pats in 07.
    I stuck around because I believed it was worth both fighting for and saving.

    fighting with you, over defending the CONstitution. on RPF's of all places.. has convinced me otherwise.

    have fun freezing your ass off up there buddy.
    I am going to seek a job in the Caribbean.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  30. #146
    Thanks for sharing all that, AF. The Anti-Federalist reads like lofty, profound, wise poetry. Kinda like psalms against the CONstitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    thank you AF for your wise counsel.
    I will now request that my account be closed. (casey jones style) and leave the country.

    as you well know, many of us became ex pats in 07.
    I stuck around because I believed it was worth both fighting for and saving.

    fighting with you, over defending the CONstitution. on RPF's of all places.. has convinced me otherwise.

    have fun freezing your ass off up there buddy.
    I am going to seek a job in the Caribbean.
    Haha good luck in the caribbean they probably dont even have a constitution... they probably have some other kind of document.

    Constitution ftw
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  32. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Haha good luck in the caribbean they probably dont even have a constitution... they probably have some other kind of document.

    Constitution ftw
    LMFAO!!!! You crack me up, bro.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  33. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    thank you AF for your wise counsel.
    I will now request that my account be closed. (casey jones style) and leave the country.

    as you well know, many of us became ex pats in 07.
    I stuck around because I believed it was worth both fighting for and saving.

    fighting with you, over defending the CONstitution. on RPF's of all places.. has convinced me otherwise.

    have fun freezing your ass off up there buddy.
    I am going to seek a job in the Caribbean.
    Sometimes ya just gotta get over your public school edumacation and face the truth, Dude.

    Can be a mind-blower at first- a blessing later.
    There is no spoon.

  34. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    thank you AF for your wise counsel.
    I will now request that my account be closed. (casey jones style) and leave the country.

    as you well know, many of us became ex pats in 07.
    I stuck around because I believed it was worth both fighting for and saving.

    fighting with you, over defending the CONstitution. on RPF's of all places.. has convinced me otherwise.

    have fun freezing your ass off up there buddy.
    I am going to seek a job in the Caribbean.
    Good luck.

    I've lived in the Caribbean before.

    Endless summer and island paradise ain't all it's cracked up to be.

    Besides, I'm not "fighting you", you silly man, I am discussing with you.

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