Are White Cops the Problem in Black Neighborhoods? No, it’s black criminals.

[Ronin Truth]

Are White Cops the Problem in Black Neighborhoods?

No, it’s black criminals, says Walter Williams.

Black Lives Matter

By Walter E. Williams

May 6, 2015

Before we examine the issue of police shootings of blacks, I would like to start the conversation with another question. Here it is: If a person chooses to stand on railroad tracks in the face of an oncoming train, who is responsible for his being run over? And if many people meet their maker this way, what would you recommend as the best way to reduce such deaths? Would you focus most of your efforts on train engineers, or would you counsel people not to stand on railroad tracks in the face of an oncoming train?

In principle, the answer to these questions might help with the issue of police shootings in general and particularly those of blacks. First, the Ferguson, Missouri, case: Having robbed a liquor store, the person is walking in the middle of the street and blocking traffic. A police officer tells the person to get out of the street. What would you suggest the person do? Would you suggest that he ignore the police officer’s instructions, push the officer as he attempts to get out of his vehicle and afterward attempt to take the officer’s pistol?

In the case of the New York City death of Eric Garner, what would you recommend? A person is illegally selling cigarettes. The police try to effect an arrest. What would you recommend that the person do? As the police try to take the person into custody, would you advise the person to swat away the arms of the arresting officer, to tell the officer “Don’t touch me!” and to continue resisting arrest?

What about the shooting of Walter Scott by a North Charleston, South Carolina, police officer? If an officer makes a traffic stop, would you advise that the driver flee so as to avoid arrest?

Let me be clear: I am justifying neither the behavior of police officers nor the deadly outcomes of their confrontations with these three black men.

Similarly, I would not justify the behavior of a train engineer or the outcome a person experiences standing on the train tracks in the face of an oncoming train. I would counsel a person not to stand on railroad tracks in the face of an oncoming train. Similarly, the advice that I would give to anyone of any race in dealing with police is: Follow the officer’s instructions.

Do not resist arrest or attempt to flee. Do not assault the police officer or try to disarm him. Had this advice been taken, Michael Brown, Eric Garner and Walter Scott would be alive today.

Criminal activity is a major problem in many black communities. That means many black citizens will have some kind of contact with police officers, either as victims of crime or as criminals. One of the true tragedies is that black politicians, preachers and civil rights advocates give massive support to criminals such as Brown, Garner and Scott. How much support do we see for the overwhelmingly law-abiding members of the black community preyed upon by criminals?

The average American has no idea of the day-to-day threats and fears encountered by the law-abiding majority in black neighborhoods on account of thugs. In addition to giving threats and instilling fears, criminals have turned many black communities into economic wastelands where there is a lack of services that most Americans take for granted, such as supermarkets, other shops and even home delivery. Black residents must bear the expense of having to go out of their neighborhoods to shop or shop at high-cost mom and pop stores.

The protest chant that black lives matter appears to mean that black lives matter only if they are taken at the hands of white police officers.

The Best of Walter E. Williams

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/05/...neighborhoods/

Copyright © 2015 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit and a live link are provided.

[presence]

"Follow the officer’s instructions. Do not resist arrest or attempt to flee. Do not assault the police officer or try to disarm him."

[AuH20]

Police certainly exacerbate the problems within the inner city in a negative fashion. With that said, the police aren't the core problem. When you're killing your fellow neighbor over relatively frivolous issues, it ain't the police who are forcing you to do so.

[Ronin Truth]

How many black lives are terminated by black killers in the US and elsewhere worldwide, annually?

Do those black lives matter?

[staerker]

Cops by definition are criminals.

[Ronin Truth]

In some of life's situations there just really ain't no good guys. <shrug>

[Acala]

In a society where there are so many criminal laws that no living human being can know them all, most of which do not involve the violent invasion of the rights of others, many of which are unconstitutional, many of which are designed to favor certain "insiders", and many of which have no victim other than the state and its cronies, the "advice" given in this article is the equivalent of advising a rape victim to just lie back and enjoy it.

Any article on this subject that does not address the larger issue of "rules of engagement", is myopic to the point of being suspect as mere propaganda. I expect better from Walter Williams.

[Ronin Truth]

In a society where there are so many criminal laws that no living human being can know them all, most of which do not involve the violent invasion of the rights of others, many of which are unconstitutional, many of which are designed to favor certain "insiders", and many of which have no victim other than the state and its cronies, the "advice" given in this article is the equivalent of advising a rape victim to just lie back and enjoy it.

Any article on this subject that does not address the larger issue of "rules of engagement", is myopic to the point of being suspect as mere propaganda. I expect better from Walter Williams.

I very often agree with Walter. This time too, BTW. Giving the guys with the guns a hard time, is hardly ever a really good or intelligent idea.

[wizardwatson]

In some of life's situations there just really ain't no good guys. <shrug>

There's a lot of drama on RPF with this whole "racism" angle. But it isn't even about race. It's about moral judgement.

There were many people chastising the looters, including Rand. With Rand even saying that they were essentially a "fatherless generation".

Meaningless point.

Why are we trying to assess the relative moral compasses of various groups? We are all morally culpable if you ask me. And the higher you go the worse it gets. We're supposed to be talking about how to fix it, not which immoral "bubble" needs to be hammered the most. Now LRC wants to fan the flames too and say the problem is "black criminals"?

The greatest contributor to poverty is the Federal Reserve, what happened to focusing on that? The greatest contributor to jihadism is our foreign policy, what happened to that?

And as Ron Paul pointed out many times over the years the greatest contributor to ALL OF THESE MORAL PROBLEMS has been the erosion over the years of following moral principles. "Moral hazards" as he called them. Roe V. Wade, Patriot Act, etc. "Liberty comes from God", Ron Paul has said. If our government is full of looters what moral standing do we have to condemn a looter on moral grounds? Zero. They are criminals for sure, but targeting them on moral grounds is ridiculous and makes anyone who does it look like a hypocrite.

But at the end of all things, when crap is really starting starting to fall apart, the wisdom from LRC is "the problem is black criminals"? Which is really just to say A=A?

Anyway, I sure hope LRC's ad click-through rate benefits. Because understanding real problems isn't being benefited.

I don't think RPF is racist. I think we're just off-topic across the board so we end up arguing about the same stupid things that any other run of the mill political bulletin board would. Instead of digging into real issues we've become ambulance chasers commenting on what is being fed to us.

[Sam I am]

When there's a conflict between two parties. Just because one party is in the wrong doesn't mean the other party is in the right.

So, when:

• Someone commits a crime that doesn't warrant the death penalty(such as selling drugs or cigarettes)
• The extent of their interaction with the police isn't dangerous enough to warrant any lethal force(such as talking back or running away)

If their interaction with the police results in their death, both parties may actually be in the wrong at the same time.

Just because the criminal is in the wrong, doesn't mean the police are right.

---

Also, as a reminder, the criminals in these cases aren't getting off Scott free. In fact, they're dead.

The Police, on the other hand, are not dead. Additionally, the police are paid with taxpayer money, and they're given extra authority, so we expect them to be a responsible party. Criminals, on the other hand, aren't given extra authority. We don't expect as much responsibility from them.

[Ronin Truth]

There's a lot of drama on RPF with this whole "racism" angle. But it isn't even about race. It's about moral judgement.

There were many people chastising the looters, including Rand. With Rand even saying that they were essentially a "fatherless generation".

Meaningless point.

Why are we trying to assess the relative moral compasses of various groups? We are all morally culpable if you ask me. And the higher you go the worse it gets. We're supposed to be talking about how to fix it, not which immoral "bubble" needs to be hammered the most. Now LRC wants to fan the flames too and say the problem is "black criminals"?

The greatest contributor to poverty is the Federal Reserve, what happened to focusing on that? The greatest contributor to jihadism is our foreign policy, what happened to that?

And as Ron Paul pointed out many times over the years the greatest contributor to ALL OF THESE MORAL PROBLEMS has been the erosion over the years of following moral principles. "Moral hazards" as he called them. Roe V. Wade, Patriot Act, etc. "Liberty comes from God", Ron Paul has said. If our government is full of looters what moral standing do we have to condemn a looter on moral grounds? Zero. They are criminals for sure, but targeting them on moral grounds is ridiculous and makes anyone who does it look like a hypocrite.

But at the end of all things, when crap is really starting starting to fall apart, the wisdom from LRC is "the problem is black criminals"? Which is really just to say A=A?

Anyway, I sure hope LRC's ad click-through rate benefits. Because understanding real problems isn't being benefited.

I don't think RPF is racist. I think we're just off-topic across the board so we end up arguing about the same stupid things that any other run of the mill political bulletin board would. Instead of digging into real issues we've become ambulance chasers commenting on what is being fed to us.

Ahem, I beg to disagree and differ with a few of your characterizations.

Race, Politics and Lies

[milgram]

^ yep, it's hardly a meaningless point that

the poverty rate among black married couples has been in single digits every year since 1994.

[wizardwatson]

Ahem, I beg to disagree and differ with a few of your characterizations.

Race, Politics and Lies

Ok, so why isn't the article entitled "it's criminals" instead of "it's black criminals"?

Why is it necessary in this article you've posted or the other you linked to to correlate race?

[Christopher A. Brown]

This thread has way too narrow of a view to be comprehensive to the problem.

1). Without justice, no social problem can be corrected.

2). There are more than a few problems at fault here

3). The beginning is the creation of conditions that breed crime.

a). Economic manipulation
b). Drug dealing government agencies, prison police state.
c). The educational system within economic manipulation.
d). A lack of mental health care in the law enforcement industry that can be offered to correct antisocial, sociopathic or psychotic tendencies.
e). Media manipulation of children's and public mentality creating focus on wants or desires instead of needs.

1), 2), and 3) can be dealt with by a lawful and peaceful revolution.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ful-revolution

Whining and complaining about problems looks really stupid while the solution to the problems is at hand and being ignored because of covert manipulation preferring the problems.

[JK/SEA]

How many black lives are terminated by black killers in the US and elsewhere worldwide, annually?

Do those black lives matter?

the ISSUE is taxpayer funded 'criminals' in blue. But then, you know that right?

[wizardwatson]

This thread has way too narrow of a view to be comprehensive to the problem.

1). Without justice, no social problem can be corrected.

2). There are more than a few problems at fault here

3). The beginning is the creation of conditions that breed crime.

a). Economic manipulation
b). Drug dealing government agencies, prison police state.
c). The educational system within economic manipulation.
d). A lack of mental health care in the law enforcement industry that can be offered to correct antisocial, sociopathic or psychotic tendencies.
e). Media manipulation of children's and public mentality creating focus on wants or desires instead of needs.

1), 2), and 3) can be dealt with by a lawful and peaceful revolution.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ful-revolution

Whining and complaining about problems looks really stupid while the solution to the problems is at hand and being ignored because of covert manipulation preferring the problems.

You keep saying the exact same thing, and posting this exact same line linking to your thread in other threads.

I think you are allowed 2 personal thread bumps a day, you know. You could just bump that thread a couple times a day (which you haven't posted in for a week) instead of advertising in other threads. Just a suggestion. You will likely get more responses.

Other option is to actually relate your agenda directly to the topic of the thread somehow. The standard for this is pretty low so shouldn't be too difficult.

[Ronin Truth]

the ISSUE is taxpayer funded 'criminals' in blue. But then, you know that right?

Well I could agree that it's AN issue, without necessarily thinking or calling it THE issue.

If 10% of the folks are responsible for 50% of the crime, the primary problem is not racism.

[Ronin Truth]

Ok, so why isn't the article entitled "it's criminals" instead of "it's black criminals"?

Why is it necessary in this article you've posted or the other you linked to to correlate race?

Maybe because both authors of the articles are black and I very usually agree with both of them on racial issues.

You may want to take that titling question up with Walter.

[wizardwatson]

Maybe because both authors of the articles are black and I very usually agree with both of them on racial issues.

You may want to take that titling question up with Walter.

Do you agree with them because they are black?

I question why race correlation is necessary to make their argument about crime and you point out the race of the author? Why? The authors didn't point out their race?

[AuH20]

Well I could agree that it's AN issue, without necessarily thinking or calling it THE issue.

If 10% of the folks are responsible for 50% of the crime, the primary problem is not racism.

Ding. ding. ding. It's actually much worse than racism. It's exploitation by select special interests.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

[list]
[*] Someone commits a crime that doesn't warrant the death penalty(such as selling drugs or cigarettes)[*] The extent of their interaction with the police isn't dangerous enough to warrant any lethal force(such as talking back or running away)

Take your "list" back to your shilling organization and stop trying to fly under the radar here. I know you're a progressive who is paid to post on this site. The only time you people are concerned about such matters is when the dead party is black. If the party is black, then the police are wrong. If the party is Bundy, then it's a right wing nut. Liberty people are concerned about both. YOU are not. Knock off your nonsense.

[Christopher A. Brown]

Other option is to actually relate your agenda directly to the topic of the thread somehow. The standard for this is pretty low so shouldn't be too difficult.

This has been done dynamically far exceeding any standard.

Bumping is not my style and the covert infiltration uses it to our disadvantage.

The covert infiltration instills and reinforces myopic perspective of the problems created to justify constitutional erosion. I will continue to oppose the myopia until people start to work on solution.

[wizardwatson]

Ding. ding. ding. It's actually much worse than racism. It's exploitation by select special interests.

Can you elaborate a little on that? I wanted to ask Ronin what he thought THE problem was, but he rarely responds more than a couple sentences. I want to get to "the real problem" too.

[AuH20]

Can you elaborate a little on that? I wanted to ask Ronin what he thought THE problem was, but he rarely responds more than a couple sentences. I want to get to "the real problem" too.

We have large banks that make sizable profits off the food stamp program. The race grievance industry led by the likes of Al Sharpton is certainly thriving these days as well. We can't seem to build enough prisons fast enough. The teacher unions are certainly not feeling a pinch these days as school budgets grow. Everyone seems to be personally profiting from this generational plight, except for the people that these programs were allegedly supposed to help.

[Ronin Truth]

Do you agree with them because they are black?

I question why race correlation is necessary to make their argument about crime and you point out the race of the author? Why? The authors didn't point out their race?

No, I agree with them because they are correct, from my point of view. Because when it comes to crime, race seems to be a very persistent, relevant and ongoing factor.

The original LRC articles contain their pictures. Of course, we as LRC regulars already know both Thomas and Walter.

[Ronin Truth]

Can you elaborate a little on that? I wanted to ask Ronin what he thought THE problem was, but he rarely responds more than a couple sentences. I want to get to "the real problem" too.

Actually, telling the truth doesn't usually require a lot of words.

"Complexity is the essence of the con and the hustle."

[fisharmor]

I don't think RPF is racist. I think we're just off-topic across the board so we end up arguing about the same stupid things that any other run of the mill political bulletin board would. Instead of digging into real issues we've become ambulance chasers commenting on what is being fed to us.

Solidarity, brother.

[wizardwatson]

We have large banks that make sizable profits off the food stamp program. The race grievance industry led by the likes of Al Sharpton is certainly thriving these days as well. We can't seem to build enough prisons fast enough. The teacher unions are certainly not feeling a pinch these days as school budgets grow. Everyone seems to be personally profiting from this generational plight, except for the people that these programs were allegedly supposed to help.

So why then when the rioting and looting started did everyone jump on the "moral judgement" bandwagon around here and say that they were violent people who should be shot on sight? Surely there was no excuse for that behavior but why not stick to the main narrative?

I stuck to the main narrative by saying that "looting" is the same kind of behavior that our government does, which is exactly what you just told me the "primary problem" is, so why be hypocritical and change the narrative to "crime is the problem, these people are animals" when you know yourself that there are a host of more relevant contributing factors?

So the problem is that looting breeds looting. But the narrative changed to "criminals get what they deserve" and people should stop whining?

Criminals, the real ones that we in this movement have been trying to point out, most definitely do NOT get what they deserve.

This same "one side's right and one is wrong" crap is going on with the Cartoon fiasco. Both sides are responsible for their actions. The special interests and those who gave into violence are both wrong.

But our narrative should be to stick to the real causes and not hypocritical moral judgements of groups on a case-by-case basis other than to say crime is crime.

[AuH20]

So why then when the rioting and looting started did everyone jump on the "moral judgement" bandwagon around here and say that they were violent people who should be shot on sight? Surely there was no excuse for that behavior but why not stick to the main narrative?

I stuck to the main narrative by saying that "looting" is the same kind of behavior that our government does, which is exactly what you just told me the "primary problem" is, so why be hypocritical and change the narrative to "crime is the problem, these people are animals" when you know yourself that there are a host of more relevant contributing factors?

So the problem is that looting breeds looting. But the narrative changed to "criminals get what they deserve" and people should stop whining?

Criminals, the real ones that we in this movement have been trying to point out, most definitely do NOT get what they deserve.

This same "one side's right and one is wrong" crap is going on with the Cartoon fiasco. Both sides are responsible for their actions. The special interests and those who gave into violence are both wrong.

But our narrative should be to stick to the real causes and not hypocritical moral judgements of groups on a case-by-case basis other than to say crime is crime.

I never voiced that they should be shot, unless of course they started shooting and forced the police into an extreme defensive measure. I was always an advocate for containing the chaos with non-lethal means so the arson & looting could be prevented. The store owners there didn't deserve that.

[wizardwatson]

No, I agree with them because they are correct, from my point of view. Because when it comes to crime, race seems to be a very persistent, relevant and ongoing factor.

The original LRC articles contain their pictures. Of course, we as LRC regulars already know both Thomas and Walter.

Well, it's certainly a persistent and ongoing topic.

Actually, telling the truth doesn't usually require a lot of words.

"Complexity is the essence of the con and the hustle."

Yes, it is. Why don't you ask Gary North, a "regular" LRC blogger how much money he made using his "complex" economic knowledge to scare boatloads of people about the economic ramifications of Y2K?

He's buried as much evidence as he could but you can still dig up some stuff. I don't trust any of those gatekeepers.

But then again I don't really trust anyone.