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Thread: Two gunmen carrying explosives attack anti Muslim art contest in Texas

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    There's millions of Muslims in America. Hindus too, believe it or not. Buddhists, Taoists, and others.

    What exactly is your point?
    There are millions of Christians in America,Mormons too.

    Would you be defending a couple of crazy Mormons if they walked into a Broadway showing of Parker and Stone's The Book Of Mormon with AK-47's and started mowing down the audience or two vicious Christians who did the same thing at an art gallery showing of Piss Christ?

    Would you claim that the insane murderers and the audience at those events were equally guilty,50-50?
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


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  3. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    To be fair, what other reason could there possibly be to hold a 'Muhammed Drawing Contest" if not explicitly to piss off Muslims?

    And instigation is irrelevant. We don't go around shooting people because they say something offensive.
    And I said I AGREE with the bolded statement. Violence is wrong. Instigating is also wrong. Nowhere have I said it's ONE person's fault. The entire situation was created by both parties and couldn't have happened without both parties. It was mutual combat as presence has backed up. No one was righteous. Period.

    Do you feel that if you say both sides are bad you are in the wrong or something? Is that somehow condoning jihadists?
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6



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  5. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    There are millions of Christians in America,Mormons too.

    Would you be defending a couple of crazy Mormons if they walked into a Broadway showing of Parker and Stone's The Book Of Mormon with AK-47's and started mowing down the audience or two vicious Christians who did the same thing at an art gallery showing of Piss Christ?

    Would you claim that the insane murderers and the audience at those events were equally guilty,50-50?
    Both guilty, yes. What the hell does "equally" mean? You do realize that the two dead people are the guys with the guns, right?
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  6. #154
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.A.V._v._City_of_St._Paul

    R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul, 505 U.S. 377 (1992) was a United States Supreme Court case involving hate speech and the free speech clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. A unanimous Court struck down St. Paul, Minnesota's Bias-Motivated Crime Ordinance, and in doing so overturned the conviction of a teenager, referred to in court documents only as R.A.V., for burning a cross on the lawn of an African American family.

    Contents




    Facts and procedural background

    In the early morning hours of June 21, 1990, the petitioner and several other teenagers allegedly assembled a crudely made cross by taping together broken chair legs.[1] The cross was erected and burned in the front yard of an African American family that lived across the street from the house where the petitioner was staying.[1] Petitioner, who was a juvenile at the time, was charged with two counts, one of which a violation of the St. Paul Bias-Motivated Crime Ordinance.[1] The Ordinance provided:
    Whoever places on public or private property, a symbol, object, appellation, characterization or graffiti, including, but not limited to, a burning cross or Nazi swastika, which one knows or has reasonable grounds to know arouses anger, alarm or resentment in others on the basis of race, color, creed, religion or gender commits disorderly conduct and shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
    Petitioner moved to dismiss the count under the Bias-Motivated Crime Ordinance on the ground that it was substantially overbroad and impermissibly content based, and therefore facially invalid under the First Amendment.[2] The trial court granted the motion, but the Minnesota Supreme Court reversed, rejecting petitioner's overbreadth claim because, as the Minnesota Court had construed the Ordinance in prior cases, the phrase "arouses anger, alarm or resentment in others" limited the reach of the ordinance to conduct that amounted to fighting words under the Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire decision.[3] The Minnesota Court also concluded that the ordinance was not impermissibly content based because "the ordinance is a narrowly tailored means towards accomplishing the compelling governmental interest in protecting the community against bias-motivated threats to public safety and order."[4] Petitioner appealed, and the United States Supreme Court granted certiorari.[5]
    Decision

    Justice Antonin Scalia delivered the opinion of the court, in which Chief Justice William Rehnquist, Justice Anthony Kennedy, Justice David Souter, and Justice Clarence Thomas joined. Justice Byron White wrote an opinion concurring in the judgment, which Justice Harry Blackmun and Justice Sandra Day O'Connor joined in full, and Justice John Paul Stevens joined in part. Justice Blackmun wrote an opinion concurring in the judgment. Justice Stevens wrote an opinion concurring in the judgment, which was joined in part by Justice White and Justice Blackmun.





    Justice Scalia, who wrote the majority opinion in R.A.V.


    The majority decision

    The Court began with a recitation of the relevant factual and procedural background, noting several times that the conduct at issue could have been prosecuted under different Minnesota statutes.[6] In construing the ordinance, the Court recognized that it was bound by the construction given by the Minnesota Supreme Court.[7] Therefore, the Court accepted the Minnesota court's conclusion that the ordinance reached only those expressions that constitute "fighting words" within the meaning of Chaplinsky.
    Petitioner argued that the Chaplinsky formulation should be narrowed, such that the ordinance would be invalidated as "substantially overbroad."[7] but the Court declined to consider this argument, concluding that even if all of the expression reached by the ordinance was proscribable as "fighting words," the ordinance was facially unconstitutional in that it prohibited otherwise permitted speech solely on the basis of the subjects the speech addressed.[7]
    The Court began its substantive analysis with a review of the principles of free speech clause jurisprudence, beginning with the general rule that the First Amendment prevents the government from proscribing speech,[8] or even expressive conduct,[9] because of disapproval of the ideas expressed.[10] The Court noted that while content-based regulations are presumptively invalid, society has permitted restrictions upon the content of speech in a few limited areas, which are "of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality."[11]
    The Court then clarified language from previous free speech clause cases, including Roth v. United States, Beauharnais v. Illinois, and Chaplinsky that suggested that certain categories of expression are "not within the area of constitutionally protected speech," and "must be taken in context."[12] The Court's clarification stated that this meant that certain areas of speech "can, consistently with the First Amendment, be regulated because of their constitutionally proscribable content (obscenity, defamation, etc.) — not that they are categories of speech entirely invisible to the Constitution, so that they may be made the vehicles for content discrimination."[13] Thus, as one of the first of a number of illustrations that Justice Scalia would use throughout the opinion, the government may "proscribe libel, but it may not make the further content discrimination of proscribing only libel critical of the government."[14]
    The Court recognized that while a particular utterance of speech can be proscribed on the basis of one feature, the Constitution may prohibit proscribing it on the basis of another feature.[15] Thus, while burning a flag in violation of an ordinance against outdoor fires could be punishable, burning a flag in violation of an ordinance against dishonoring the flag is not.[15] In addition, other reasonable "time, place, or manner" restrictions were upheld, but only if they were "justified without reference to the content of the regulated speech."[16][17]
    The Court recognized two final principles of free speech jurisprudence. One of these described that when "the entire basis for the content discrimination consists entirely of the very reason the entire class of speech is proscribable, no significant danger of idea of viewpoint discrimination exists." As examples, Justice Scalia wrote,
    A State may choose to prohibit only that obscenity which is the most patently offensive in its pruriencei.e., that which involves the most lascivious displays of sexual activity. But it may not prohibit, for example, only that obscenity which includes offensive political messages. And the Federal Government can criminalize only those threats of violence that are directed against the President, since the reasons why threats of violence are outside the First Amendment (protecting individuals from the fear of violence, from the disruption that fear engenders, and from the possibility that the threatened violence will occur) have special force when applied to the person of the President.[18]
    The other principle of free speech jurisprudence was recognized when the Court wrote that a valid basis for according different treatment to a content-defined subclass of proscribable speech is that the subclass "happens to be associated with particular 'secondary effects' of the speech, so that 'the regulation is justified without reference to the content of the … speech'"[19] As an example, the Court wrote that a State could permit all obscene live performances except those involving minors.[20]
    Applying these principles to the St. Paul Bias-Motivated Crime Ordinance, the Court concluded that the ordinance was facially unconstitutional. Justice Scalia explained the rationale, writing,
    Although the phrase in the ordinance, "arouses anger, alarm or resentment in others," has been limited by the Minnesota Supreme Court's construction to reach only those symbols or displays that amount to "fighting words," the remaining, unmodified terms make clear that the ordinance applies only to "fighting words" that insult, or provoke violence, "on the basis of race, color, creed, religion or gender." Displays containing abusive invective, no matter how vicious or severe, are permissible unless they are addressed to one of the specified disfavored topics. Those who wish to use "fighting words" in connection with other ideas — to express hostility, for example, on the basis of political affiliation, union membership, or homosexuality — are not covered. The First Amendment does not permit St. Paul to impose special prohibitions on those speakers who express views on disfavored subjects.[21]
    The Court went on to explain that, in addition to being an impermissible restriction based on content, the Ordinance was also viewpoint- based discrimination, writing,[21]
    As explained earlier, see supra, at 386, the reason why fighting words are categorically excluded from the protection of the First Amendment is not that their content communicates any particular idea, but that their content embodies a particularly intolerable (and socially unnecessary) mode of expressing whatever idea the speaker wishes to convey. St. Paul has not singled out an especially offensive mode of expression—it has not, for example, selected for prohibition only those fighting words that communicate ideas in a threatening (as opposed to a merely obnoxious) manner. Rather, it has proscribed fighting words of whatever manner that communicate messages of racial, gender, or religious intolerance. Selectivity of this sort creates the possibility that the city is seeking to handicap the expression of particular ideas. That possibility would alone be enough to render the ordinance presumptively invalid, but St. Paul’s comments and concessions in this case elevate the possibility to a certainty.
    Displays containing some words, such as racial slurs, would be prohibited to proponents of all views, whereas fighting words that "do not themselves invoke race, color, creed, religion, or gender — aspersions upon a person's mother, for example — would seemingly be usable ad libitum in the placards of those arguing in favor of racial, color, etc., tolerance and equality, but could not be used by those speakers' opponents."[21] The Court concluded that "St. Paul has no such authority to license one side of a debate to fight freestyle, while requiring the other to follow Marquess of Queensberry rules."[21]
    The Court concluded, "Let there be no mistake about our belief that burning a cross in someone's front yard is reprehensible. But St. Paul has sufficient means at its disposal to prevent such behavior without adding the First Amendment to the fire."[22]

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  7. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Staged event.

    I suspect the idiots that were killed were recruited and armed by the same folks that promoted the "art show".

    It is not hard to find half-wits and soup them up. for just about anything.

    as to the "Free Speech" issue,,,

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fighting_words
    Fighting Words


    Words which would likely make the person whom they are addressed commit an act of violence. Fighting words are a category of speech that is unprotected by the First Amendment. Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942).

    The event was deliberately provocative.


    In my research I've found that fighting words only relate to personal speech not public speech. So the fighting words would have to be addressed toward a (living) person.


    The court has continued to uphold the doctrine but also steadily narrowed the grounds on which fighting words are held to apply. In Street v. New York (1969),[2] the court overturned a statute prohibiting flag-burning and verbally abusing the flag, holding that mere offensiveness does not qualify as "fighting words". In similar manner, in Cohen v. California (1971), Cohen's wearing a jacket that said "$#@! the draft" did not constitute uttering fighting words since there had been no "personally abusive epithets"; the Court held the phrase to be protected speech.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  8. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Both guilty, yes. What the hell does "equally" mean? You do realize that the two dead people are the guys with the guns, right?
    Of course I realize who the two dead guys are,they would be the guilty parties and as I have said,I celebrate their deaths.

    Both sides are not guilty,Just the worthless POS murderous scumbags that got blown away in Texas are,or the insane murderers attacking the audiences in my two examples.

    You have posted several times in this thread that you think both sides are guilty,I don't care if you think it is 60/40 or 70/30 or whatever.I vehemently disagree.
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.

  9. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    Of course I realize who the two dead guys are,they would be the guilty parties and as I have said,I celebrate their deaths.

    Both sides are not guilty,Just the worthless POS murderous scumbags that got blown away in Texas are,or the insane murderers attacking the audiences in my two examples.

    You have posted several times in this thread that you think both sides are guilty,I don't care if you think it is 60/40 or 70/30 or whatever.I vehemently disagree.
    Both guilty of creating the situation. Do you think when the contest organizers stand before God they will be able to slick-talk this freedom of speech nonsense? No. They will be guilty of hating their brother in their heart just like the wanna-be jihadists. And people who "celebrate" their deaths should be cautious as well. You are morally accountable for every idle word and thought you have to God.

    Matthew 5:21-22 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. - Jesus
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  10. #158
    What's your opinion of the beautiful girl wearing the short shorts while jogging who gets raped?Guilty?

    How about the woman carrying a purse in a poor neighborhood who gets purse snatched?Guilty?

    Or the man who gets curb-stomped for wearing a Redskins jersey in Dallas?Guilty?

    Did they all 'create the situation'?
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.

  11. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    What's your opinion of the beautiful girl wearing the short shorts while jogging who gets raped?Guilty?

    How about the woman carrying a purse in a poor neighborhood who gets purse snatched?Guilty?

    Or the man who gets curb-stomped for wearing a Redskins jersey in Dallas?Guilty?

    Did they all 'create the situation'?
    I can tell you this. Every person in that contest, and especially Ms. Geller, love it when they hear Muslims are killed int he middle east. They love it when they hear a predator drone killed a wedding full of Muslims. I guarantee you, in their hearts, every single one of them hate Muslims like nothing else.

    And they are murderers. They conspire with the US government to commit murder. They have murder in their heart. They are murderers.

  12. #160
    And they are murderers. They conspire with the US government to commit murder. They have murder in their heart. They are murderers.
    I think murderers should be locked up in prison for a long,long time.Unless they are caught in the act of murdering or attempted murdering where,hopefully,like those two worthless POS scumbags in Texas were,they are killed in the attempt.

    So tell me,you accused the participants of this gathering in Texas of murder,should they all be locked up for decades?
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.



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  14. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    So tell me,you accused the participants of this gathering in Texas of murder,should they all be locked up for decades?
    Sure. If I ruled the world, I'd have them executed, with large swaths of the American public, who has cheered on this bloodthirsty empire. Those who have cheered the destruction of the impoverished so they can have even more. Woe be unto the fat gluttons of America, whose lust for blood, food, pleasure and power knows no bounds, who are willing to kill and literally laugh about their mass murder at the drop of a hat, and who think their adventures overseas are entertainment.

    I often wish there were a God, the God of the bible, the God of Revleations, and his son, Christ, with a sword, as a lion... ..and I often wish his wrath upon "Babylon" was near. Oh, how I would love to see the shocked faces of the hateful christians, who believe they are god's people, when they are his despised Laodecians. Oh, how I would love to see them tortured through tribulation, only to be burned and cast away in hell for eternity.

    I assure you, I as an agnostic, have a better chance at heaven then most Americans claiming to be Christians today.

    So vote for me as God, I have a plan and a vision.

    Funnily, neither I, nor god rule this planet, but nature does, and the real laws of war say America will get what is coming to it. Including these idiots in Texas.
    Last edited by UWDude; 05-05-2015 at 12:21 AM.

  15. #162
    Sure. If I ruled the world, I'd have them executed, with large swaths of the American public, who has cheered on this bloodthirsty empire.
    Yes,that is a totally sane opinion(backing slowly toward the door looking for something I might use as a defensive weapon)you aren't utterly insane in your bloodthirsty musings on annihilating anybody and everybody that disagrees with you,no, you're perfectly normal.
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.

  16. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    Yes,that is a totally sane opinion(backing slowly toward the door looking for something I might use as a defensive weapon)you aren't utterly insane in your bloodthirsty musings on annihilating anybody and everybody that disagrees with you,no, you're perfectly normal.
    I didn't say that, you just said that.



    No, I am not perfectly normal. Because normal in this world is insane.

  17. #164
    No,you just said you would execute large swaths of the American Public.

    Totally sane.
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.

  18. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    No,you just said you would execute large swaths of the American Public.

    Totally sane.
    The bible says God will. In fact, the Bible says God will kill most of the world.

    In fact, God already did it once.

    The difference between myself and God, is, I would do it because people are murdering other people to take their stuff, and use it for themselves, when they really don't need more stuff, and the people they killed actually did need the stuff to live. I can think of nothing more evil, unless these people, while murdering and stealing, also took some sick kind of sadistic pleasure in it. Like I am sure all the contestants at this contest do, every time they hear muslims are getting killed. I don't need to be God to see into their hearts. Their hatred is quite obvious.

    The Biblical God did it for that, *and* because other men were sticking other mens' penises in their mouth, eating bacon, sometimes at the same time. Wiping out people for that is insane.

    So vote for UWDude for God, I will be the far more fair and just God, plus, I am not very jealous.
    Last edited by UWDude; 05-05-2015 at 01:38 AM.

  19. #166
    So vote for UWDude for God, I will be the far more fair and just God, plus, I am not very jealous.
    Okay,(running blindly toward the door,not even trying anymore to reason with this crazy person)when you're right,you're right.
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.

  20. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    Okay,(running blindly toward the door,not even trying anymore to reason with this crazy person)when you're right,you're right.
    This is the part where I assert my own machismo, and assure myself there is little between the manliness I exhibit, and the manliness of an MMA fighter. Now that I made you "run away", I an make all sorts of comments inferencing we just had a fight, and how I won, and made you run away.

  21. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    This is the part where I assert my own machismo, and assure myself there is little between the manliness I exhibit, and the manliness of an MMA fighter. Now that I made you "run away", I an make all sorts of comments inferencing we just had a fight, and how I won, and made you run away.
    Okay,that was hilarious,seriously laughing out loud,I wish that I had posted it.Plus rep.
    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.


    A police state is a small price to pay for living in the freest country on earth.



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  23. #169
    how does Breitbart spin this?

    Calling the cops "good guys" http://www.breitbart.com/big-journal...in-15-seconds/

  24. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by mad cow View Post
    Yes,that is a totally sane opinion(backing slowly toward the door looking for something I might use as a defensive weapon)you aren't utterly insane in your bloodthirsty musings on annihilating anybody and everybody that disagrees with you,no, you're perfectly normal.
    Wow, you ever get the feeling that you blinked and accidentally walked into bearded Spock world?

  25. #171
    i think the matrix is wobbling this week. I'm cutting everyone some slack till further notice...

  26. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    And I said I AGREE with the bolded statement. Violence is wrong. Instigating is also wrong. Nowhere have I said it's ONE person's fault. The entire situation was created by both parties and couldn't have happened without both parties. It was mutual combat as presence has backed up. No one was righteous. Period.

    Do you feel that if you say both sides are bad you are in the wrong or something? Is that somehow condoning jihadists?
    God spoke to me last night and told me the word "Wizard" is blasphemous. Please change your username or face death in the name of my religion.

    So, are you? By your logic you absolutely should.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Remove retards with guns = no conflict
    Remove retards inciting violence by drawing cartoons = no conflict

    Two set of bad guys. No good guys. Are we keeping up?
    You need to explain how drawing a historical figure makes one a bad guy. You KNOW islam also bans drawing/depicting Jesus, right? You KNOW islam bans eating pork, right? You know it bans homosexuality, right? How many of their rules do we need to follow? Just like I don't accept christians telling me I can't curse or have premarital sex, I don't accept muslims telling me who I may or may not draw.

    REMEMBER: No one is harmed by any cartoon ever.
    REMEMBER: Shooting someone can only be intended to cause harm
    THEREFOR: One side was NOT causing harm, the other side was TRYING to cause harm. So now we've figured out there WERE good and bad guys. Great.

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Are you trying to say that there are no places in the US where a woman risks being raped by dressing slutty and walking about alone? Cos men taking advantage of a woman is something that only happens in oversea countries.

    There is a reason why bait cars, to catch a predator etc etc works even in the US. if you bait a criminal, they will likely show up and what better way to bait a rapist than to dress slutty and walk around alone.
    Most rapes are by someone the victim knows well, so your strategy is flawed.

    A woman has every right to walk around dressed however she would like. A cartoonist has every right to draw whatever they would like. No one has the right to rape, and no one has the right to murder. I don't understand the confusion here. Sure, it might be dumb to put yourself in a knowingly dangerous situation (dress slutty in a prison yard filled with convicted rapists), but having a cartoon contest in TEXAS with multiple armed guards is not such a situation

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Don't know if you are. It's the internet, dude. You could be a child, a cop, me, a robot, or a figment of my imagination.

    Because of the nature of the medium I must judge you by your words alone.

    Your sentence indicated you were clueless what the poster you quoted was saying, but you sided against the shooters anyway even though you are obviously aware of the whole story.

    By taking one side when both sides are guilty you show your true intent. Or at least that's what your words say.

    I can't believe what people "say they are" online because the back-pedaling is atrocious because of the fact that no one follows anyone and holds them accountable. I must hold people accountable for their words, post by post.
    I misunderstood the context of his post, as you pointed out.

    No one at the cartoon event is "guilty" of anything. Unless one of them is George Bush or Barack Obama or another known war criminal, no one there committed a violent act. The shooters (as in, the ones who came there to do the shooting, not those shooting back in defense) are guilty (pending further investigation, of course) of trying to turn a peaceful event into a bloodbath over an obscure and radical religious view.
    The more prohibitions you have,
    the less virtuous people will be.
    The more weapons you have,
    the less secure people will be.
    The more subsidies you have,
    the less self-reliant people will be.

    Therefore the Master says:
    I let go of the law,
    and people become honest.
    I let go of economics,
    and people become prosperous.
    I let go of religion,
    and people become serene.
    I let go of all desire for the common good,
    and the good becomes common as grass.

    -Tao Te Ching, Section 57

  27. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Hello, CIA

    How did you talk them into it?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  28. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post
    God spoke to me last night and told me the word "Wizard" is blasphemous. Please change your username or face death in the name of my religion.
    Well, I'm a Christian so death isn't really all that big of a deal to me. More like a nap. Plus I kind of see God as a wizard. Magic powers and all that. One of his names is "Wonderful" after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post
    You need to explain how drawing a historical figure makes one a bad guy. You KNOW islam also bans drawing/depicting Jesus, right? You KNOW islam bans eating pork, right? You know it bans homosexuality, right? How many of their rules do we need to follow? Just like I don't accept christians telling me I can't curse or have premarital sex, I don't accept muslims telling me who I may or may not draw.

    REMEMBER: No one is harmed by any cartoon ever.
    REMEMBER: Shooting someone can only be intended to cause harm
    THEREFOR: One side was NOT causing harm, the other side was TRYING to cause harm. So now we've figured out there WERE good and bad guys. Great.
    If I draw a picture of your mom because you said you'd beat me up and I wanted to test you and someone innocent got hurt in the process, and I knew that was a risk, I'm wrong.

    And that's what happened. Luckily the innocent person's wounds were minor in this case, no thanks to the SWAT people they hired that were barricaded in the convention with their assault rifles. Had to be handled by one traffic cop armed with a pistol.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post
    I misunderstood the context of his post, as you pointed out.

    No one at the cartoon event is "guilty" of anything. Unless one of them is George Bush or Barack Obama or another known war criminal, no one there committed a violent act. The shooters (as in, the ones who came there to do the shooting, not those shooting back in defense) are guilty (pending further investigation, of course) of trying to turn a peaceful event into a bloodbath over an obscure and radical religious view.
    I know that nearly every pseudo-intellectual around here has gobbled up the Rothbardian Kool-Aid, but you and all the rest need to realize that the Rothbardian philosophy only deals with how the government uses violence to contain crime. Rothbard's philosophy of government doesn't put a fence around what is "moral" and makes a person "guilty". It only attempts, badly, to define the use of violence in return for violence.

    So many of you use this line of thought as your hammer and everything looks like a nail. They are the violent ones! Cartoonists are peaceful ones! Baloney. None of the actors were peaceful by any stretch of the imagination. All had violent hearts.

    Yes, those shooters lived by the sword and died by the sword. But that doesn't mean those cartoonists are not morally accountable for inciting the violence and LUCKILY only wounding one innocent person who had nothing to do with any of it (the unarmed security officer).

    At the very least they should be sternly rebuked and publicly shamed for fueling hatred and inciting violence but instead they are heralded as heroes. That European speaker that was there (who is on Al Qaeda's hit list I here) I saw in a clip advocating "NO MORE MOSQUES! NO MORE ISLAMIC SCHOOLS!" That's free speech for sure, but his intent is not to further the art of cartooning and neither is the primary organizer. They are at war in their minds plain and simple. And that is a mindset of hatred and division not of freedom.

    Violent violation of property rights is not the only morally bad thing in the world. I know life would be simpler if that were the case for those who choose not to think.
    Last edited by wizardwatson; 05-05-2015 at 11:30 AM.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  29. #175
    This has 9/11 all over it. I bet if the attack was successful, Iran would already look like the surface of the sun
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  30. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    This has 9/11 all over it. I bet if the attack was successful, Iran would already look like the surface of the sun
    My guess is these guys were set up- especially if POS Pam Geller was involved.

    How Convenient Is ISIS
    Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

    Just because ISIS is a propaganda dream come true for the US empire and its Middle Eastern satraps does not mean it was funded, like other convenient Arab groups, by the CIA, Al Mukahbarat, Mossad, MI6, or DGSE. And now ISIS–after the shootings in Texas–will be used to promote further not only US world domination, but a full-scale federal police state.

    Were the shooters patsies in classic agent provocateur fashion? I’m only sure of one thing: it is not a good idea to seek to offend someone’s religion. Apparently the Texas cartoon show was not, like Charlie Hebdo, mainly aimed at Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church, but it’s still a vile notion. Nor, note, would free speech be used to defend a show of anti-Semitic, anti-black, or anti-gay cartoons. But if haters are promoting the state’s foreign and domestic tyranny, why anything is OK.

    12:27 pm on May 4, 2015
    Email Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
    There is no spoon.



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  32. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post

    Most rapes are by someone the victim knows well, so your strategy is flawed.

    A woman has every right to walk around dressed however she would like. A cartoonist has every right to draw whatever they would like. No one has the right to rape, and no one has the right to murder. I don't understand the confusion here. Sure, it might be dumb to put yourself in a knowingly dangerous situation (dress slutty in a prison yard filled with convicted rapists), but having a cartoon contest in TEXAS with multiple armed guards is not such a situation
    I think I just the wrong analogy here. Think of someone who leave a wad of cash in the front seat of their car, then parks it in the bad area of time. Most likely, someone will try to break into his car. Do you think it would be fair to say that such a person brought the stealing upon themselves?

    My argument is not whether one has the right to park their cars where ever they want or say whatever they want. The point is that your actions good or bad have consequences. Its not fair but that is how the world works.

    Before someone call me a SJW for daring to suggest actions can have negative consequences, please do know it is actually the SJW that believe actions should not have negative consequences. Just saying

  33. #178
    If we're going to continue this thread of fail, can we at least remove the reference to "explosives" in the thread title which was a false rumor?
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  34. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Wow, you ever get the feeling that you blinked and accidentally walked into bearded Spock world?
    Yes - I should post this picture:


    So that everyone knows that if there is anything said to which I might take offense, that there is an implied capability for violence to result. Therefore, if I am provoked, who knows what may happen.

    Because I have no history of violence for mere speech that I have not liked, my implied threat is not credible, but such is not universally the case.

    Interesting world in which it takes a credible threat of violence before people worry about giving offense - or maybe it has always been thus.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  35. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Well, I'm a Christian so death isn't really all that big of a deal to me. More like a nap. Plus I kind of see God as a wizard. Magic powers and all that. One of his names is "Wonderful" after all.



    If I draw a picture of your mom because you said you'd beat me up and I wanted to test you and someone innocent got hurt in the process, and I knew that was a risk, I'm wrong.

    And that's what happened. Luckily the innocent person's wounds were minor in this case, no thanks to the SWAT people they hired that were barricaded in the convention with their assault rifles. Had to be handled by one traffic cop armed with a pistol.



    I know that nearly every pseudo-intellectual around here has gobbled up the Rothbardian Kool-Aid, but you and all the rest need to realize that the Rothbardian philosophy only deals with how the government uses violence to contain crime. Rothbard's philosophy of government doesn't put a fence around what is "moral" and makes a person "guilty". It only attempts, badly, to define the use of violence in return for violence.

    So many of you use this line of thought as your hammer and everything looks like a nail. They are the violent ones! Cartoonists are peaceful ones! Baloney. None of the actors were peaceful by any stretch of the imagination. All had violent hearts.

    Yes, those shooters lived by the sword and died by the sword. But that doesn't mean those cartoonists are not morally accountable for inciting the violence and LUCKILY only wounding one innocent person who had nothing to do with any of it (the unarmed security officer).

    At the very least they should be sternly rebuked and publicly shamed for fueling hatred and inciting violence but instead they are heralded as heroes. That European speaker that was there (who is on Al Qaeda's hit list I here) I saw in a clip advocating "NO MORE MOSQUES! NO MORE ISLAMIC SCHOOLS!" That's free speech for sure, but his intent is not to further the art of cartooning and neither is the primary organizer. They are at war in their minds plain and simple. And that is a mindset of hatred and division not of freedom.

    Violent violation of property rights is not the only morally bad thing in the world. I know life would be simpler if that were the case for those who choose not to think.
    I don't know what philosophy you're referring to.

    Can you please list which islamic laws we must follow in order to not be bad people?


    EDIT: It used to be assumed that a black man holding a white woman's hand in public was an assumed beatdown or lynching. That didn't end with legislation, it ended with brave men and women doing just that over, and over, and over. Don't tell me who to love, and don't tell me what to draw.
    Last edited by jonhowe; 05-05-2015 at 11:46 AM.
    The more prohibitions you have,
    the less virtuous people will be.
    The more weapons you have,
    the less secure people will be.
    The more subsidies you have,
    the less self-reliant people will be.

    Therefore the Master says:
    I let go of the law,
    and people become honest.
    I let go of economics,
    and people become prosperous.
    I let go of religion,
    and people become serene.
    I let go of all desire for the common good,
    and the good becomes common as grass.

    -Tao Te Ching, Section 57

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