Yes- For some people it's like “we love the free market, until it's GMO's, then we want the government to force everyone to ban or restrict it.”
I'm fairly confident he respects property, and that would include airborne pollution.Originally Posted by angelatc
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Just shut the $#@! up.
And go away.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
I am more than fairly certain that Ron Paul has laid out the procedures for dealing with pollution that causes damage, which I am advocating and you are opposing.
The government has to protect the property rights of both individuals.
There is no "protection to pollute and damage others" unless you believe in state sponsored communism.
Why?
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
I think she does.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
I'm not the one advocating for people to have the free reign to pollute and destroy other people's property, you are.
Because the courts outside of America are sooooo much better.
The revolving door between agribusiness and government is a mercantilist phenomenon. And, of course, mercantilism is not a free market. Even if some of you in the grocery business create the illusion that it is, it isn't. It is industry protectionism by way of government. Again, a revolving door.
So, Zip, if you want to have a discussion with regard to a genuine free market and mercantilism, I'll be in the neighborhood. Show us your wisdom, Zip. I'd like to hear your position with regard to federal intrusion of states rights. We're seeing companies like Monsanto pad pockets of congressmen to introduce industry penned legislation that voids state rights and removes the consumer's means of an informed choice of what they consume, thus, disfranchising their means to actually participate in a free market. What this does is protect these industries from a genuine free market. Correct? This is government protectionism. Mercantilism. If you require specific examples and specific legislation and participants, then, feel free to whistle. I'll perform a forum search and bump those instances for you.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-01-2015 at 12:34 PM.
If you take her positions on GMOs alone, I think you are right. She is ALL ABOUT using the state guns to force them down people's throats.
The courts heard the complaint and ruled that property was not destroyed. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-2...-court/5482864
But Justice Kenneth Martin said Mr Baxter could not be held responsible just for growing a GM crop in a conventional way.
"The end of season winds and the blowing of swathes from Sevenoaks eastwards into Eagle Rest had not been an outcome intended by Mr Baxter," he said in his judgment summary.
"Even so, no physical injury whatsoever had been sustained at Eagle Rest in consequence.
"Mr Baxter was not to be held responsible as a broadacre farmer merely for growing a lawful GM crop and choosing to adopt a harvest methodology (swathing) which was entirely orthodox in its implementation."However, Mr Baxter's lawyers told the court their client was simply exercising his right to grow a crop that was judged safe and legal by the State Government.
They argued Mr Marsh's land could only be said to have sustained contamination if his own crops of wheat and oats had been genetically modified, or if the GM material had been mixed in with the end product, neither of which had happened.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-01-2015 at 12:36 PM.
So it is okay for Organic farmers to lose business?
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Pretty sad. I like Angela. And used to like Zippy. But both seem to have gone...fill in the blank.If you take her positions on GMOs alone, I think you are right. She is ALL ABOUT using the state guns to force them down people's throats.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Remember, the free market doesn't matter to these people when their investments are on the line.
Angela is still great on most issues. On vaccinations she's a bit off. On GMO's she's straight BSI. I try to think of these two positions as aberrations and not really hold them against her too much.
It seems they talk out of both sides of their mouths or completely confused about a free market.Remember, the free market doesn't matter to these people when their investments are on the line.
Last edited by donnay; 05-01-2015 at 12:41 PM. Reason: typo
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
I think that government subsidies by way of the Farm Bill has pretty much demanded that those farmers plant GMO products. Of course, the elected ones who passed the thing own the biggest farms. So, go figger. And in many cases, these are the same fake-me-out representatives claiming to oppose a nanny state. So, the mercantilist. revolving, door between agribusiness and government is the largest impediment to organic business. We had a rather thorough thread on that if I recall correctly.
Of course, I maintain that the GMO issue is geo-political. As well, it will be resolved at the geo-political level. We're seeing this evolve now, actually.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-01-2015 at 12:41 PM.
I think it's a lot less devious than that. At least for Angela. It's more like libertylibertylibertylibertylibertylibertyliberty OOOHHH There's my pet issue!!! mywayorthehighway. For Zippy, yeah that sounds about right.
In a free market, a farmer can choose to grow or not to grow GMO crops. And you are free to buy or not to buy such products.
Whether you think organic products should sell for the premiums they do or not, is irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you break a 1 gallon glass bottle at the store, and it costs five bucks to replace it, you have to pay them five bucks. If it happens to be a "rare" glass bottle from 200 years ago at an antique shop, and it costs them $1,000 to replace it, you can complain all you want but it still costs $1,000 to replace it. That's what you will pay.
You can say a baseball is a baseball all day long, but if you destroy one that happens to have a Babe Ruth signature on it. Don't expect to get away with replacing it with one from Walmart.
The going rate in any market dictates the replacement cost. It doesn't matter if you like it, its just reality.
How do you know you're buying GMO or not? Without a method of choice you aren't able to participate in a genuine free market. You have no means of making an informed choice. As such, the industry is protected from a genuine free market by way of government protectionism.
So, Zip, I'll lask again. Please explain the difference between a genuine free market and mercantilism. How are they different? Thank You.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-01-2015 at 12:50 PM.
So we should have mandatory government labeling?
So you think the government should make us quit burning wood for heat because a neighbor might have asthma? (And in that example, at least there's a medical reason to be had. The anti-GMO crowd literally has nothing other than "because we said so" to explain why these regulations should even exist. )
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
NOT IF THE FARMER DOWN THE ROAD CONTAMINATES THE ORGANIC FARMERS CROPS!
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Fair point, but but this isn't that, exactly. The government condemned his land over arbitrary rules they fabricated using nothing credible - they're the ones who should pay for the losses, if any. As it stands, he can't even prove any losses. He can say that now the government won't allow him to grow what he wanted to grow, but that's quite a bit different from saying that he can't grow anything at all.
Last edited by angelatc; 05-01-2015 at 06:03 PM.
Why government?
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us