A Message to the Liberty Movement

[The Northbreather]

It takes a lot of experience to know when the potential for covert agenda may be in control. Critical thinking IS required. Agents don't attack everyone or every concept.

Logically they only risk attacking concepts that will functionally oppose the agenda of the major governmental infiltration. If you have never promoted one of those you've never seen first hand the unreason they suddenly share, mostly without staying they share it. That becomes an overt group. I describe a group, but a covert one. If they are seen acting overtly in opposition rather than covertly as a group, they expose the group which is far more damaging than just one or two agents.

Some have spent years building credibility as sincere Americans posting on web forums.

For this reason a large percentage never oppose, and the sacrificial agents attempt opposition. The others of a larger body has exchanges with them later that increases their credibility. They are preserved as a large body to ping pong quasi sensational subjects putting down the government to maintain credibility. They are important for dilution and distraction, or burying threads that have concepts that will successfully oppose the governmental infiltrations agenda of tyranny.

This goes back at least 7 years to an overt admission/recommendation from a Supreme Court justice advising BO to invest in cognitive infiltration with his regime/administration. Probably all the way back to the inception of .com, increasing radically after 9/11.

http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...-manipulation/

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...c_document.pdf

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...30621?irpc=932
For decades, the NSA and GCHQ have worked as close partners, sharing intelligence under an arrangement known as the UKUSA agreement. They also collaborate with eavesdropping agencies in Canada, Australia and New Zealand under an arrangement known as the "Five Eyes" alliance.


Next is the natural question for you Natural Citizen. Do you agree and accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to our unalienable rights?

So you're saying that because some people on this and other forums don't agree exactly with you're method to achieve liberty that these people are agents of the government?

I don't think so.

Consider the idea that many here are not stalling by adhearing to your narrow guidelines to understanding freedom. Many here have seen their attempts to enlighten others to the idea of liberty fail over and over again and have become jaded to the idea of a peaceful solution. I have not lost hope yet and I believe, as Dr. Ron Paul does, that enlightenment is imperative and possible.

Consider also the the idea that many of these people probably do agree with your understanding of the importance of free speech and are at the same time witnessing the population around them slide in to stupidity and disinterst of even the most fundamental aspects of a free society.

Consider again the idea that it is possible that the only thing that might jog the interests of the sleeping masses about the ideas of liberty is a full and violent reset of the entire system. Full crash/correction. I hope not, but you would be wrong to discard the men who could foresee such a scenario as "agents", when if this path did become reality, they may be you're closest alias.

Just because they see a trend unfolding does not mean they promote it.

Nobody knows what the future holds. If people like the path you take they just may follow it.

[Christopher A. Brown]

So you're saying that because some people on the and other forums don't agree exactly with you're method to achieve liberty that these people are agents of the government?

I don't think so.

Did you mean "some people on [this and] the and other forums"?

The ultimate purpose of free speech is separate from the method of achieving liberty through a lawful and peaceful revolution. It is a logical basis and enabler for that revolution however.

Consider the idea that many here are not stalling by adhearing to you're narrow guidelines to understanding freedom.

That is too general of a description. I am only defining one specific freedoms PURPOSE in maintaining freedom. It has to do with the people educating themselves and forming opinion.

Many here have seen their attempts to enlighten others to the idea of liberty fail over and over again and have become jaded to the idea of a peaceful solution.

I've noticed that is used as an excuse. However such excuse disregards the purpose of free speech which is separate from the specific solution that implements it.

I have not lost hope yet and I believe, as Dr. Ron Paul does, that enlightenment is imperative and possible.

Enlightenment comes with knowledge. Knowledge comes with information. Information requires understanding before it is knowledge. Understanding requires Q & A to form opinion upon the information to realize that it is actual knowledge and not simply opinion.

These things are the purpose of free speech being served and that purpose is abridged.

Consider also the the idea that many of these people probably do agree with you're understanding of the importance of free speech and are at the same time witnessing the population around them slide in to stupidity and disinterst of even the most fundamental aspects of a free society.

Yes, but do not omit that while they do agree, the covert agents foster an environment of uncertainty while also having no plan of viable lawful strategy to secure liberty. Which of course they are unaccountable to addressing despite the fact that the agents present a unified front if ambiguity based in appreciation and acceptance of DISTRACTION as being the only functional activism.

Consider again the idea that it is possible that the only thing that might jog the interests of the sleeping masses about the ideas of liberty is a full and violent reset of the entire system. Full crash/correction.

Those would be the perceptions the NWO and it's agents want people to hold. The NWO is specifically poised to survive the crash of our "system" and then be the only power offering aid at that point. Such is the FEMA camps. The NWO works to crash the system

I hope not, but you would be wrong to discard the men who could foresee such a scenario as "agents", when if this path did become reality, they may be you're closest alias.

"May be" is important. Distinguishing them from agents without an absolutely solid commitment to something which supports Liberty is not possible.

THIS is exactly why I seek agreement and acceptance of the ultimate purpose of free speech.

Witnessing such agreement is in itself a powerful motivating example to agreement with the same. Agents will NEVER set such an example.

Notice, the detractors to this agreement have never described any damage the agreement might cause. They have never defined any sacrifice or risk to making the agreement, but still do not make it despite the fact of the 1st amendment.

EXPLAIN THAT!

Just because they see a trend unfolding does not mean they promote it.

Nobody knows what the future holds. If people like the path you take they just may follow it.

Agents work to assure no such trend is easily visible by obsfucation of it.

Sheep require that ease.

Actually scientific projection of conditions over time result in accurate predictions absent unforeseen interventions. The future can be predicted very closely depending on conditions and how far in the future the projection is directed to.

[Anti Federalist]

Notice, the detractors to this agreement have never described any damage the agreement might cause. They have never defined any sacrifice or risk to making the agreement, but still do not make it despite the fact of the 1st amendment.

EXPLAIN THAT!

I already have, many times.

The damage, quite simply, is this:

You would waste a generation, maybe more, petitioning for justice from the very system that oppresses us.

[CCTelander]

I already have, many times.

The damage, quite simply, is this:

You would waste a generation, maybe more, petitioning for justice from the very system that oppresses us.

Besides that, working within the system has been employed non-stop for 237+ years and proven to be a dismal failure. How many centuries does it take before people start looking for viable alternatives?

[Christopher A. Brown]

I already have, many times.

The damage, quite simply, is this:

You would waste a generation, maybe more, petitioning for justice from the very system that oppresses us.

Unfounded speculation within implied constitutional intent which has never been reasonably shown to be otherwise.

Let's try it for 6 months to see what happens. But do you feel liberty, rights and the constitution are worth it?

How much progress has your plan of action produced in the last 6 months? Ah, what is that pian BTW?

[Christopher A. Brown]

Besides that, working within the system has been employed non-stop for 237+ years and proven to be a dismal failure. How many centuries does it take before people start looking for viable alternatives?

Wrong, a segment of the system failed in 1911 when 2/3 of the states submitted applications for an Article V to congress but congress didn't act.

Due to the abridging of the purpose of free speech the people were unable to unify and correct the system. The abridging is only accomplished by a deficiency in the first amendment.

The proposal of preparatory amendment completely corrects that and two other problems impairing the system.

Congress was complicit and wanted to create the federal reserve which the states were trying to oppose.

The elite usurpers created the titanic incident which killed 40 of the wealthiest Americans against the federal reserve, April 15, 1912.

There is a thread here showing that congress after 226 years has finally started counting applications.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...e-V-Convention

Perhaps just in time for the Koch bros. to lead an unconstitutional convention. Which may succeed if agents here are allowed to influence decision making.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tion&p=5865531

[The Northbreather]

Yes, but do not omit that while they do agree, the covert agents foster an environment of uncertainty while also having no plan of viable lawful strategy to secure liberty. Which of course they are unaccountable to addressing despite the fact that the agents present a unified front if ambiguity based in appreciation and acceptance of DISTRACTION as being the only functional activism.

I like your enthusiasm but you are barking up the wrong tree for the most part around here IMHO.

I'm certain that the hundreds of liberty related topics one can view on these forums each day do NOT serve as mere "distraction" from a "viable" strategy to obtain liberty.

People post on issues they feel are relevant and this brings a huge variety of topics up for discussion.

This aggregation of ideas gives the liberty lover a HUGE arsenal at his disposal with which to engage others in conversion their actual offline life. This is not dysfunctional.

It serves the function of being able to break the ice when engaging others about these ideas by allowing one to relate liberty to common problems in the real world.

I consider this site and many like it the 'spark' in the ignition of 'brush fires of liberty' that is necessary for any kind of tipping point.

Most of the posters here do no disservice by increasing the arsenal of ideas, its up you to use the info relevantly.

[Christopher A. Brown]

I like your enthusiasm but you are barking up the wrong tree for the most part around here IMHO.

I'm certain that the hundreds of liberty related new topics one can view on these forums each day do NOT serve as mere "distraction" from a "viable" strategy to obtain liberty.

Can you find one thread on the site that has a viable, lawful, peaceful strategy that will empower the people to defend and enforce the constitution?

[HVACTech]

I already have, numerous times, in a much more clear and understandable way.

Go home, your brain is fried on refrigerant fumes...

VOC's do not bother me, neither do light aromatic hydrocarbons.
are YOU sure you know the difference between the two?

are we having fun yet?

you MIGHT do better if you jacked with me over electrical concepts....
but I doubt it....

[The Northbreather]

Can you find one thread on the site that has a viable, lawful, peaceful strategy that will empower the people to defend and enforce the constitution?

Uh yes. As I just said, spreading the idea of liberty in the form that fits the situation.

In other words.

Setting brush fires of liberty in the minds of your fellow men ( as the good doc has said to be paramount, time and again)

[The Northbreather]

Originally Posted by CCTelander
Besides that, working within the system has been employed non-stop for 237+ years and proven to be a dismal failure. How many centuries does it take before people start looking for viable alternatives?

Wrong, the system failed in 1911 when 2/3 of the states submitted applications for an Article V to congress but congress didn't act.

Why are you saying 'wrong', then agreeing? I'm getting confused.

[Christopher A. Brown]

I'm certain that the hundreds of liberty related topics one can view on these forums each day do NOT serve as mere "distraction" from a "viable" strategy to obtain liberty.

I've already asked you to post a link to ONE, as you said that before, and you have not.. What you do is post the same assertion of your "certainty". Find a link to a "viable" strategy to obtain liberty" and post it!

[Christopher A. Brown]

Why are you saying 'wrong', then agreeing? I'm getting confused.

Because it is not the over all system of government that is failing, that would be a generalization. It is one group, one subsystem, of the government and the public that is failing.

Through our unity we can make it work. No governmental system will work without that. And anarchy won't work without it either.

The group of government is failing because of secret control over them executing an agenda, and the people are failing because some of the first elements of the agenda were to remove the knowledge needed by the people to unify and oppose the secrecy.

[wizardwatson]

You say you want a revolution. Well, you know we all want to change the world.
You say you got a real solution. Well, you know we'd all love to see the plan.
You say you'll change the constitution. Well, you know we all want to change your head.
You tell me it's the institution. Well, you know you'd better free your mind instead.

[Christopher A. Brown]

posted a John Lennon.

You say you want a revolution.

Need John, not want.

Well, you know we all want to change the world.

Need John, not want.

You say you got a real solution. Well, you know we'd all love to see the plan.
You say you'll change the constitution.

The plan is to enforce the constitution but to change the government and assure it is constitutional, we may need change a few things including the constitution.

Well, you know we all want to change your head.

Who is "we" John?

You tell me it's the institution. Well, you know you'd better free your mind instead.

People do not realize that controlled minds control the institution John.

Do Beatles live in a colony under a queen John?

[osan]

Do you agree and accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to our unalienable rights?

No. I agree that it may be one of many purposes, but it is not the single over-arching raison d'être. Free speech is a right if, for no other reason, nobody holds the authority to prevent you from speaking freely.

[wizardwatson]

Need John, not want.



Need John, not want.



The plan is to enforce the constitution but to change the government and assure it is constitutional, we may need change a few things including the constitution.



Who is "we" John?



People do not realize that controlled minds control the institution John.

Do Beatles live in a colony under a queen John?

Dude, I hate to be the one to break the news but John's dead, man.

[Uriah]

Enforcement seems to be the issue with grand juries. There is movement to get sheriffs on board. I think this is a great tool but most people don't come close to understanding the far reaching power juries have and the profound effect they will exert on society if used to their full potential.

[Christopher A. Brown]

No. I agree that it may be one of many purposes, but it is not the single over-arching raison d'être. Free speech is a right if, for no other reason, nobody holds the authority to prevent you from speaking freely.

You priorities are skewed. If free speech does not serve to create unity protecting unalienable rights, like LIFE, you are dead and the other $#@! doesn't matter.

[Christopher A. Brown]

Dude, I hate to be the one to break the news but John's dead, man.

Its most likely a person with a controlled mind would pretend I didn't know that in the process of trying to compromise agreement upon prime constitutional intent enabling unity defending unalienable rights.

Do you agree and accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights?

[Christopher A. Brown]

It is safe to assume that northbreather can find no thread here that presents a viable plan for defending liberty.

Can you find one thread on the site that has a viable, lawful, peaceful strategy that will empower the people to defend and enforce the constitution?

The below does not constitute finding a thread here with a viable plan to defend liberty.

Uh yes. As I just said, spreading the idea of liberty in the form that fits the situation.

In other words.

Setting brush fires of liberty in the minds of your fellow men ( as the good doc has said to be paramount, time and again)

I'm certain that the hundreds of liberty related topics one can view on these forums each day do NOT serve as mere "distraction" from a "viable" strategy to obtain liberty.

I've already asked you to post a link to ONE, as you said that before, and you have not.. What you do is post the same assertion of your "certainty". Find a link to a "viable" strategy to obtain liberty" and post it!

[wizardwatson]

Its most likely a person with a controlled mind would pretend I didn't know that in the process of trying to compromise agreement upon prime constitutional intent enabling unity defending unalienable rights.

Do you agree and accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights?

Ooooh! You are asking me directly.

Well, truth be told I don't believe in free speech. It's a fiction. There are no such things as "rights". God gave you no rights, he gave you commands. You think those are your words coming out of your mouth but they are not.

Proverbs 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

When you speak you think it's the truth because you think you own yourself. You don't own that either. You can't change one single thing about you.

Matthew 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

Freedom is an illusion. Only by becoming aware of our sin nature can we achieve any type of freedom. That is the truth.

So when you go around spewing your nonsense philosophy others are more aware of your error than you are. And since you self-identify with your words you become enraged when others don't acknowledge the wisdom you see in them. Your philosophy is nothing but vanity. You have some kind of psychologically embedded hero complex that's making you irrationally accuse others of being malevolent actors.

Only by acknowledging the holes and fallacies in the words you've clinged to will this delusion of yours melt away. You know nothing. None of us know anything either. All is His will. Seek the truth only. Do not seek to wield the truth. It cannot be wielded. It is a living truth. You cannot possess truth in such a way that you "catch it" but only in such a way that it catches you.

Eat more vegetables.

[Christopher A. Brown]

Enforcement seems to be the issue with grand juries. There is movement to get sheriffs on board. I think this is a great tool but most people don't come close to understanding the far reaching power juries have and the profound effect they will exert on society if used to their full potential.

Here is why we need a lawful and peaceful revolution to create authority for GJ's.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5864960

[Christopher A. Brown]

Ooooh! You are asking me directly.

Well, truth be told I don't believe in free speech. It's a fiction. There are no such things as "rights". God gave you no rights, he gave you commands. You think those are your words coming out of your mouth but they are not.



When you speak you think it's the truth because you think you own yourself. You don't own that either. You can't change one single thing about you.



Freedom is an illusion. Only by becoming aware of our sin nature can we achieve any type of freedom. That is the truth.

So when you go around spewing your nonsense philosophy others are more aware of your error than you are. And since you self-identify with your words you become enraged when others don't acknowledge the wisdom you see in them. Your philosophy is nothing but vanity. You have some kind of psychologically embedded hero complex that's making you irrationally accuse others of being malevolent actors.

Only by acknowledging the holes and fallacies in the words you've clinged to will this delusion of yours melt away. You know nothing. None of us know anything either. All is His will. Seek the truth only. Do not seek to wield the truth. It cannot be wielded. It is a living truth. You cannot possess truth in such a way that you "catch it" but only in such a way that it catches you.

Eat more vegetables.

^ = evasion.

[wizardwatson]

^ = evasion.

Denial of the assertions underlying your question is not an evasion.

Answering the loaded question which violates my core belief system would be evading myself and pretending to be someone I'm not.

That would be more akin to evasion in an indirect way.

You're just being whiney.

[Christopher A. Brown]

Northbreather says he is certain there is a viable plan somewhere on the forum to defend liberty, but cannot post a link to one.

AF bashes a plan to defend liberty and refuses to agree or accept that free speech has the ultimate purpose of enabling unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights.

Unfounded speculation within implied constitutional intent which has never been reasonably shown to be otherwise.

Let's try it for 6 months to see what happens. But do you feel liberty, rights and the constitution are worth it?

How much progress has your plan of action produced in the last 6 months? Ah, what is that pian BTW?

The wizwat evades. No wonder tyranny is looming over us with this kind of unaccountable dysfunction. Can this be by accident? Doubtful IF those posters are sincere Americans concerned about what is happening in America.

[jllundqu]

Being the ignorant pig that in some ways I am, could anyone explain to me the value of the 10th Amendment? I see nothing there but the door to tyranny standing widely ajar. The 9th was all that was needed and is correct. Semantically speaking, the 10th places the state above the individual, and puts them in competition for those rights to which reference is made. At the very least I would have reversed to order to say "to the people or to the States." This is just another subtle, but very serious error on the part of the authors.

Were the Framers out of ideas in a world where they just had to have a nice round number of Amendments, like ten? Clearly, I must be missing something.

All that said, how does the measure in question make the 10th work properly? What is its proper function? I see this as making the 9th work properly, or does the 10th speak to "the people" not as individuals but as a governing body? That last bit just came to me. It is correct?

In the immortal words of Dubya, "The Constitution is just a god damned piece of paper."

Osan. Your points are well taken. I would posit even if the founders and framers (picture framers, to use your analogy) had crafted a near 'perfect' document, the human experience and human nature itself would, and does, render such expressions as meaningless. "Interpretations" and the like leave the individual at the mercy of would-be tyrants and despots.

[wizardwatson]

Northbreather says he is certain there is a viable plan somewhere on the forum to defend liberty, but cannot post a link to one.

AF bashes a plan to defend liberty and refuses to agree or accept that free speech has the ultimate purpose of enabling unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights.



The wizwat evades. No wonder tyranny is looming over us with this kind of unaccountable dysfunction. Can this be by accident? Doubtful IF those posters are sincere Americans concerned about what is happening in America.

Are you the Gestapo? Come to round us all up?

There is no strategy for liberty, friend. Read last chapter of Ethics of Liberty if you need a clue.

The fact that you have an infintesimal inkling of a shadow of a clue about that is completely BLINDING you to the fact that all your posts are EQUALLY empty on that front as well.

All I read is:

Path to liberty:

Step #1: We all need to discuss and agree that my assertion that us talking and agreeing will lead to liberty.
Step #2: See Step #1.

I pity you in a way because this psychosis no doubt stems from some misguided frustration you have with the suffering going on in the world. But you are not the savior. You are as much to blame for the suffering in the world as the next guy.

You are the one evading your own despair. Confront and accept it. You cannot change yourself if you have no awareness of yourself.

[Christopher A. Brown]

wiz, you completely ignore that the framers defined a right to alter or abolish, and instead try to assert that I demand people agree with me. I assert that the framers has a naturally limited vision into the masses and mass media or its potentials. They assumed that people would be united as those were at the time of the revolutionary war.

Are you the Gestapo? Come to round us all up?

There is no strategy for liberty, friend. Read last chapter of Ethics of Liberty if you need a clue.

The fact that you have an infintesimal inkling of a shadow of a clue about that is completely BLINDING you to the fact that all your posts are EQUALLY empty on that front as well.

All I read is:

Path to liberty:

Step #1: We all need to discuss and agree that my assertion that us talking and agreeing will lead to liberty.
Step #2: See Step #1.

I pity you in a way because this psychosis no doubt stems from some misguided frustration you have with the suffering going on in the world. But you are not the savior. You are as much to blame for the suffering in the world as the next guy.

You are the one evading your own despair. Confront and accept it. You cannot change yourself if you have no awareness of yourself.

Basically I read someone trying to make excuses for their own refusal to unify for the protection of unalienable rights. This is exactly what covert agents in a group will do, and they will work together to try and make it look normal. So you fit in.

Critical thinking anyone? Are you going along with the wiz's efforts to make the Declaration of Independence go away?

[HVACTech]

In the immortal words of Dubya, "The Constitution is just a god damned piece of paper."

Osan. Your points are well taken. I would posit even if the founders and framers (picture framers, to use your analogy) had crafted a near 'perfect' document, the human experience and human nature itself would, and does, render such expressions as meaningless. "Interpretations" and the like leave the individual at the mercy of would-be tyrants and despots.

wow dude, that was like MAJOR profound...

the founders wrote about human nature in the Federalist papers.