6 years of change under Obama

[Mad Raven]

This meme has gone viral. Care to revise it?

The S&P and Dow I assume are because of all the new money being created going into the pockets of the super-wealthy, who stick it into the markets. Prices have also gone up, as anyone who buys groceries knows.

GDP - Didn't Obama change the formula for GDP going forward to make it look like he improved it?

Unemployment - Lots of part time workers and people who have gone so long without work that they aren't being counted anymore?

Deficit % and consumer confidence - I have no idea, help?

[ILUVRP]

could also put up the number of gi's killed in the middle east .

[Zippyjuan]

1) Most of the Quantitative Easing money the Fed created is sitting in bank accounts in the form of "excess reserves" (about $2.5 trillion) doing nothing. Before the crisis, excess reserves were basically zero. Companies have also seen record profits and higher earnings which increases share prices. Price inflation is low.

2) GDP calculation was not changed.

3) Unemployment- actually most jobs added have been full time (full time meaning at least 36 hours a week).


http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/...ull-time-jobs/

4) Deficit as percent of GDP: Blame that on (or credit it to) gridlock in Congress. Spending has actually grown the least while Obama has been president. Gridlock has prevented new programs from being established and kept existing ones from growing much.

5) Consumer confidence- a survey. People are less worried about losing their jobs today than they were when the recession was at its worst and thousands were losing theirs- so sure, they are more confident today.

[Mad Raven]

You're saying GDP calculation was not changed? It was all over the news that it was changed to make it appear that GDP had grown a few percent. That might not have been the only purpose to screwing with the formula, but you can bet your last dollar that they wouldn't have screwed with it in a way that would make GDP appear lower.
http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/Advan.../07/id/519128/

Who are the employers hiring people? Government? Government contractors? Businesses granted special Obamacare exemptions? Other businesses getting bigger government benefits? When companies rely on government spending by even a degree or two of separation, it's no surprise that there's an uptick in employment, but it isn't a healthy sign. If real non-crony businesses are hiring, then great. In some ways technology is making more businesses more viable or cheaper to run, and it's plausible that at times they can out-pace what Obama is doing to wreck the business environment. The ingenuity of entrepreneurs has kept us going this far despite the obstacles.

[Zippyjuan]

You're saying GDP calculation was not changed? It was all over the news that it was changed to make it appear that GDP had grown a few percent. That might not have been the only purpose to screwing with the formula, but you can bet your last dollar that they wouldn't have screwed with it in a way that would make GDP appear lower.
http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/Advan.../07/id/519128/

Who are the employers hiring people? Government? Government contractors? Businesses granted special Obamacare exemptions? Other businesses getting bigger government benefits? When companies rely on government spending by even a degree or two of separation, it's no surprise that there's an uptick in employment, but it isn't a healthy sign. If real non-crony businesses are hiring, then great. In some ways technology is making more businesses more viable or cheaper to run, and it's plausible that at times they can out-pace what Obama is doing to wreck the business environment. The ingenuity of entrepreneurs has kept us going this far despite the obstacles.

Federal spending has barely budged while Obama has been president (thank Congressional gridlock for that- they write and approve the budgets- Obama just gets to sign them). He took office in January, 2009 but "his" first budget was FY 2010 which started in October of that year. So it was not higher federal government spending creating more jobs.

Federal Spending by year:

2009: $3.517 trillion (last "Bush" budget year)
2010: $3.475 trillion
2011: $3.603 trillion
2012: $3.537 trillion
2013: $3.454 trillion
2014: $3.506 trillion
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=200

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Federal spending has barely budged while Obama has been president (thank Congressional gridlock for that- they write and approve the budgets- Obama just gets to sign them).

That is 6th grade civics textbook stuff. The executive branch has a huge influence over budgets and spending. They can divert funds from program to program. They can carry over money. They can divert money for covert activities (e.g., CIA). There is a entire de facto list. It has been done plenty in wartime and peacetime.

[Zippyjuan]

Shifting money from one program to another within a budget category is not increasing spending.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Shifting money from one program to another within a budget category is not increasing spending.

I am addressing your claim how congress writes the budget and the president just signs it. And Obama has increased spending. He had the 99 weeks of unemployment and the stimulus.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

ZippyJuan,

Please answer my question that you have not answered. Are you for or against a minimum wage mandated by law?

Thanks!

[Sam I am]

If you just want to go after the low hanging fruit, go ahead and see if you can make a similar chart, except make the starting point represent the same point of Bush's term, April 16, 2007 instead of January of 2009, and see if the numbers look as good that way.


What that will do is expose the selection bias that uses what is probably the worst fiscal year in decades as a baseline.

[LatinsforPaul]

These numbers are going to change fast by next year. A faster and bigger drop than in 2008.

[Zippyjuan]

I am addressing your claim how congress writes the budget and the president just signs it. And Obama has increased spending. He had the 99 weeks of unemployment and the stimulus.

Most of the stimulus was passed under Bush- including TARP. The unemployment was funded by cuts in other programs (and done by Congress).

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Most of the stimulus was passed under Bush- including TARP. The unemployment was funded by cuts in other programs (and done by Congress).

I'm not comparing him to Bush. I did not vote for Bush, but you voted for Obama. Obama basically continued what Bush did.

Obama approved/approved of the unemployment cash.

[Zippyjuan]

If you just want to go after the low hanging fruit, go ahead and see if you can make a similar chart, except make the starting point represent the same point of Bush's term, April 16, 2007 instead of January of 2009, and see if the numbers look as good that way.


What that will do is expose the selection bias that uses what is probably the worst fiscal year in decades as a baseline.

Same figures for when Bush was president:

Dow Jones- January, 2001 (Bush takes office): 10,646
January 2009- 7,949
Change: minus 25%

S&P 500:
January 2001: 1335
January 2009: 805
Change: minus 40%

GDP Growth Rate:
January 2001: 2.19%
January 2009: minus 8.9%

Unemployment Rate:
January 2001: 4.2%
January 2009: 7.8%

Deficit as percent of GDP:
January 2001: 1.2%
January 2009: 9.8%

Consumer Confidence:
January 2001: 94
January 2009: 37.7

Bonus figures:

Government Spending:
FY 2002: $2.01 trillion (first "Bush" budget)
FY 2009: $3.52 trillion
Change: 75% increase
Latest "Obama" budget (FY 2014): $3.5 trillion

[Zippyjuan]

I'm not comparing him to Bush. I did not vote for Bush, but you voted for Obama. Obama basically continued what Bush did.

Obama approved/approved of the unemployment cash.

Really?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/us...cong.html?_r=0

President Signs Bill to Extend Jobless Aid

WASHINGTON — Congress on Thursday approved legislation that would keep unemployment checks flowing to jobless Americans, and President Obama immediately signed it.

Yes, he approved it but could not do so until Congress passed it.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Really?

He signed it. It's in your own blurb.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Federal spending has barely budged while Obama has been president (thank Congressional gridlock for that- they write and approve the budgets- Obama just gets to sign them). He took office in January, 2009 but "his" first budget was FY 2010 which started in October of that year. So it was not higher federal government spending creating more jobs.

Federal Spending by year:

2009: $3.517 trillion (last "Bush" budget year)
2010: $3.475 trillion
2011: $3.603 trillion
2012: $3.537 trillion
2013: $3.454 trillion
2014: $3.506 trillion
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=200

Is that a left-handed compliment? Bush basically did Obama's dirty work by jacking it up about 17% in his last year. It's like saying, Hey, I don't beat my wife any more than her last husband beat her.


People here are against Bush and Obama. They are for Paul.

You are for Obama. You are against Paul. That is why you make anti-liberty posts on this site day-after-day.

[Zippyjuan]

Yeah- I voted for Obama in all of the last seventeen elections. Or was that seventeen times in the last election?

Oops. I am a Jewish agent from Britain. I am not allowed to vote. You aren't going to turn me in, are you?

[ifthenwouldi]

I try not to praise or condemn presidents for the "economy." To do so is to buy into the idea that the President *should* have "control" over an economy, which he/she shouldn't.

[Zippyjuan]

They get credit and blame for what happens to the economy but yes- they really have little control over it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Yeah- I voted for Obama in all of the last seventeen elections. Or was that seventeen times in the last election?

Oops. I am a Jewish agent from Britain. I am not allowed to vote. You aren't going to turn me in, are you?

LOL!

how about these:
Percent of people who are keeping their doctor because they like them
Number of people who lost their health care because of Obamacare
Number of people that dropped their health care because they could no longer afford the premiums and deductables
Increase in the national debt - over 7 trillion right?
Number of wars - 5+
Number of dead US service members
Number of service members permanently disabled
Number of dead "brown" people
Number of miles flown on Air Force 1
Number of golf courses played.
Number of vacation days as a percentage of work days
Increase in average electric bill due to EPA
Increase in gas cost
Increase in grocery cost
Number of scandles

-t

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Yeah- I voted for Obama in all of the last seventeen elections. Or was that seventeen times in the last election?

Oops. I am a Jewish agent from Britain. I am not allowed to vote. You aren't going to turn me in, are you?

Nice try playing the conspiracy card. Again. I thought progressives were so proud and not ashamed of their views. Oh well.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Nice try playing the conspiracy card. Again. I thought progressives were so proud and not ashamed of their views. Oh well.

RACIST!



-t

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

And to answer the OP. Obama and Bush are two sides of the same coin. Obama basically continued Bush. Bush budgets rose incrementally, while Obama kept the same budget after a first year steep increase. Same thing.

Six years is not a trend. The US has been declining since about 1960. The east is up; the west is down. China invests millions in African infrastructure. People buy more Korean cars. Philippines just surpassed India in call center activity. Countries like Vietnam rise. The U.S.? Dunkin Donuts plans to open a slate of western US stores, thereby investing in fat Americans.

What kind of jobs?

According to the labor dept., many social assistance jobs:

The healthcare and social assistance industry is expected to continue to add a substantial number of jobs to the economy between 2012 and 2022, according to the latest projections from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Employment in the healthcare and social assistance industry is projected to increase 29 percent through 2022, compared to an average of 11 percent for all industries. The healthcare and social assistance industry group is projected to be the fastest growing industry overall from 2012 to 2022.



http://www.nasrecruitment.com/upload...to-2022-72.pdf

Social assistance jobs means mostly government jobs funded by taxpayers. We are increasingly using government money to talk care of sick people and more people who can't--or refuse--to take care of themselves.

[PRB]

They get credit and blame for what happens to the economy but yes- they really have little control over it.

Unless your last name is Paul, then you have a lot of control over it and can rightfully take credit for all the improvements, and blame the rest on previous non-libertarians.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

I try not to praise or condemn presidents for the "economy." To do so is to buy into the idea that the President *should* have "control" over an economy, which he/she shouldn't.

I agree it's a terrible way to judge the performance of presidents or governments as a whole, especially for those of us who believe in less government & freer markets; perhaps a better way to do it would be through how much power they have exercised over people & its legitimacy. Even by that token, IF we take the Constitution as the base, Obama has done terribly considering the amount of transgressions he has engaged in.

[Todd]

could also put up the number of gi's killed in the middle east .

Wars started

Increase in numbers on food stamps...poverty

Deficit increases

Drone killings of children

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Looks like the OP got negged for this post in another thread:

I don't like these relentless attacks from Rand. I get that he wants GOP voters to see him as someone who can beat Hillary, but this constant smearing is bad ju-ju, and it's so early to be attacking Hillary. And his criticisms of her have been weak. I never understood the significance of Benghazi in the big scheme of things. Taking money from anyone willing to give it sure didn't seem to matter when skinheads donated to Ron Paul. My guess is this book coming out will fall short of proving anything.

So, did he actually post this thread's meme as a disingenuous ruse? Did he slyly know the meme will be so much more visible than his tiny text below the meme?

[angelatc]

Without the government's help a lot of that stock market gain woud have ended up in our paychecks.