Rand can win nomination by going after H1b visas & illegal immigration

[redmed]

You can never secure the borders 100%, especially one as long as the US-Mexican border, and decreasing the availability of legal immigration will increase the demand for illegal immigation. It doesn't solve anything except for having less control on who gets in, and their skillsets.

True you can never make the border 100% secure, but that can be a good thing if the illegals cross the border back into Mexico. If we stop the incentives for illegals, schooling for their children, jobs, medical care, welfare they will leave this country in droves back across the border.

[RonPaulMall]

True you can never make the border 100% secure, but that can be a good thing if the illegals cross the border back into Mexico. If we stop the incentives for illegals, schooling for their children, jobs, medical care, welfare they will leave this country in droves back across the border.

You can't make the border secure in the same way you can't prevent all murder or rape. That you can't do something "100%" is a silly argument against a policy. If you make the effort, you can make the border reasonably secure. Other countries with a fraction of the resources the US has are able to do it.

Immigration is definitely Rand's Achilles Heel. Libertarianism is a hard sell. The only way you can make the sale on a national level is if you broaden the base by framing yourself as a defender of the Middle Class and scourge of the Corporate Fat Cats the way UKIP and Dave Brat have successfully done. But you can't do that if you take the Corporate Fat Cat position on immigration. If it ends up being Rand vs Jeb then I guess it won't matter as much, but Walker will simply destroy Rand if he doesn't make some kind of adjustments in his views.

[Brian4Liberty]

You can't make the border secure in the same way you can't prevent all murder or rape. That you can't do something "100%" is a silly argument against a policy. If you make the effort, you can make the border reasonably secure. Other countries with a fraction of the resources the US has are able to do it.

Immigration is definitely Rand's Achilles Heel. Libertarianism is a hard sell. The only way you can make the sale on a national level is if you broaden the base by framing yourself as a defender of the Middle Class and scourge of the Corporate Fat Cats the way UKIP and Dave Brat have successfully done. But you can't do that if you take the Corporate Fat Cat position on immigration. If it ends up being Rand vs Jeb then I guess it won't matter as much, but Walker will simply destroy Rand if he doesn't make some kind of adjustments in his views.

Is Walker better? AFAIK, all of the potential GOP candidates have essentially the same position. The only real question is which ones are liars when they talk about securing the border. One could guess that Jeb, Rubio and Graham are all lying when they say that they will secure the border.

[erowe1]

True you can never make the border 100% secure, but that can be a good thing if the illegals cross the border back into Mexico. If we stop the incentives for illegals, schooling for their children, jobs, medical care, welfare they will leave this country in droves back across the border.

We should stop all those things for everyone, not just illegal immigrants. But it won't make many people want to leave this country. In fact, it will be a boon to our economy, and draw even more people who will come here for the same reason most immigrants have throughout history, which is to get jobs earning more money than they can in their places of origin.

[otherone]

LOL, this is hilarious. You really think that massive waves of barbarians (i.e. uncivilized people) flooding a first world country is a GOOD thing?

Wow, I simply don't know what to say. I think Rand's campaign is toast if this is what he believes.

Maybe just make Mexico the 51st state, making them waves of citizen-barbarians. Problem solved!

[JohnGalt1225]

To me the answer to immigration is to turn off the magnets. Stop offering welfare and other benefits. Enforce the laws that are on the books. There is no need for additional laws.

[Southron]

I would like to see more control over immigration given back to the states, as well as making citizenship rest within the States.

We can see that almost no one in the federal government is interested in slowing immigration, including Rand Paul.

[jmdrake]

Rand needs funding from Silicon Valley so I doubt he puts the brakes on H1B visas.

Not only that, but ever since the advance of high speed internet a programmer doesn't need a Visa to work in the U.S. He can telecommute. If the worker actually comes to the U.S. he must demand a higher salary than he would need if he remained living in India or Pakistan or the Philippines or Russia or China. In fact, come to think of it, I'm surprised more U.S. programmers don't move to countries with lower costs of living and taxes.

[AuH20]

I would like to see more control over immigration given back to the states, as well as making citizenship rest within the States.

We can see that almost no one in the federal government is interested in slowing immigration, including Rand Paul.

Cruz has the best immigration stance over the rest of the candidates and even he is not spectacular. It's all one panderfest. Rand is somehow mired in the middle. Not great but not horrible. There is no serious candidate willing to call out corporate fraud and illegal alien fraud. We don't owe corporate America or illegal aliens a thing. If the illegals want to come here without all the goodies that's fine with me, but we all that's not the case. If Corporate America wants to make money, get rid of the regulatory middle men and taxes. This entire illegal alien fiasco is one giant vicious cycle of cronyism that in turn transforms into big government.

[Foreigner]

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgr...lim-immigrant/

I don't mind muslim immigrants, but I DO mind benefits being paid out to immigrants. We have lots of space, low population and dying rural communities are being kept alive because of immigration. Norway will be a much more dynamic in the future place than the rest of Europe (where the social state will collapse) with more young people compared to the elderly. Let those willing to work and contribute come, the rest can stay behind.

[whoisjohngalt]

They took muh jerb

[r3volution 3.0]

Where? They have the lowest crime rates and highest employment rates in the world.

Right now South Korea,Taiwan, and Singapore are predicted to become the richest non-oil countries in the world

Massive immigration does not mean prosperity. Try and find a ghetto in Japan, South Korea, or Singapore. They don't exist.

And I'll bet North Korea has even fewer immigrants...

Lesson: correlation =/= causation

Those countries are rich in spite of their immigration restrictions, not because of them.

Immigration is always economically beneficial (assuming they don't get welfare benefits, of course, which is another matter).

The government has no business trying to manage what the crime and employment rates are.

That is actually the only legitimate function of government. Of course, one does not need to restrict immigration in any meaningful way to manage crime.

A policy of free immigration, except for known criminals, would be perfectly appropriate.

He's already come out for more H1B visas. I think he could walk it back or rather compromise on this by advocating raising the cap while at the same time charging (more) for them. If it cost $20K or $30k for a year's Visa, companies that really are facing a labor shortage would pay for it, and it would relieve the downward pressure on Americans' wages.

...and increase the upward pressure on their cost of living.

To me the answer to immigration is to turn off the magnets. Stop offering welfare and other benefits.

Yes, that's the real problem. One can't have free immigration with a welfare state. Of course, the solution is to get rid of the welfare state, not restrict immigration.

Cruz has the best immigration stance over the rest of the candidates and even he is not spectacular. It's all one panderfest. Rand is somehow mired in the middle.

It's not pandering in Rand's case. Free immigration is the libertarian position, and hes going as far in that direction as he can given the anti-immigrant sentiment within the GOP. Others like Jeb or Rubio have the right position by accident, as it were. That is, in this case the special interest of the businesses they're serving happens to coincide with the general interest.

They took muh jerb

...indeed.

[RickyJ]

Rand has an opportunity to take the nomination by going after the corrupt H1B visa program and illegal immigration.

He can still be for the H1B visa program, but reduce its size and scope. There are literally hundreds of thousands of American workers that are jobless due to this system. Additionally, he can show how if we reduce immigration the salaries will go up for low skill labor.

This may not be a popular theme on these forums, but it's reality. He could easily over take Walker and Cruz right now if he chooses to. Cruz is for creating an unlimited number of H1B visas, which would in essence allow any individual from India with a C.S. degree to work in the states.

There are a lot of ignorant Republicans that don't realize there is even a problem with the H1B visa program, but you are right, it is a very big problem. Hearing Rubio say recently that we should not allow people to graduate from college because they may not be able to get a job was shocking. I know he was talking about not giving out student loans, and not actually stopping people from graduating, but his statement shows that he doesn't have a clue about the fact that we have many people graduating with science degrees that are suppose to be in high demand that can't find a job in their field. I would love to hear Rand Paul speak out about this.

[RickyJ]

Switzerland, Japan, South Korea, and Singapore disagree.

Right, and they are all doing better than us economically as well.

[RickyJ]

That would make him a total flip flopper on the issue and assure he loses the nomination.

It didn't hurt Romney any being a total flip flopper when it came to winning the Republican nomination.

[idiom]

Try and find a ghetto in Japan, South Korea, or Singapore. They don't exist.

hahahahaha. Oh my god.

[trojansc82]

Right, and they are all doing better than us economically as well.

Sure they are. You can live in any location in any one of those countries and not be in fear of your life. So if an individual making 30k a year in the US is forced to live in a poor area of Detroit, then they are much worse off than an individual forced to live in the worst part of Singapore, South Korea, Japan or Switzerland.

[trojansc82]

hahahahaha. Oh my god.

What? Seriously, try to find an area in any one of those countries that is dangerous to live in. I'll wait.

And for the record Singapore is an ethnically diverse country. It could be a model for other countries to follow (except I would prefer a Singapore that allows a concealed carry license).

[trojansc82]

They took muh jerb

They took the Southern California Edison workers' jobs. You can laugh all you want, but there are thousands of highly trained computer scientists being laid off for cheap foreign labor. You obviously aren't a nationalist, so there is no use in discussing this with you.

However I can say that in other countries, like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan would not allow hundreds of thousands of their workers to be removed and replaced by cheap Indian workers. Nationalism will help them.

Even the former Prime Minister of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, has stated that multiculturalism without assimilation will be the death of the US.

[AuH20]

They took the Southern California Edison workers' jobs. You can laugh all you want, but there are thousands of highly trained computer scientists being laid off for cheap foreign labor. You obviously aren't a nationalist, so there is no use in discussing this with you.

However I can say that in other countries, like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan would not allow hundreds of thousands of their workers to be removed and replaced by cheap Indian workers. Nationalism will help them.

Even the former Prime Minister of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, has stated that multiculturalism without assimilation will be the death of the US.

They don't want Americans since it's not cost effective. They want taxpayer subsidized foreigners.

[erowe1]

Enforce the laws that are on the books

You mean the ones telling us who we can and can't hire as employees?

[erowe1]

there are thousands of highly trained computer scientists being laid off for cheap foreign labor

How is that a bad thing?

[trojansc82]

You mean the ones telling us who we can and can't hire as employees?

There are laws that state the companies need to hire US citizens first. I don't believe they are following these guidelines if the workers at SCE had to train the Indian H1B employees before they left.

[trojansc82]

How is that a bad thing?

They are not citizens. I guess we have a difference of opinion about what a nation is. I don't think putting thousands of U.S. citizens out of work a good thing. And that goes for individuals that have Indian parents who are now American citizens. They too would be put out of work because of their citizenship.

Seems to me like the H1B visa is just a scam. We don't have a shortage of PHP or Java programmers, and I wouldn't call programmers "highly skilled" labor.

Why don't we just have H1B visas for our medical field? Or our lawyers?

[jmdrake]

There are a lot of ignorant Republicans that don't realize there is even a problem with the H1B visa program, but you are right, it is a very big problem. Hearing Rubio say recently that we should not allow people to graduate from college because they may not be able to get a job was shocking. I know he was talking about not giving out student loans, and not actually stopping people from graduating, but his statement shows that he doesn't have a clue about the fact that we have many people graduating with science degrees that are suppose to be in high demand that can't find a job in their field. I would love to hear Rand Paul speak out about this.

The problem is that college is designed to teach you how to apply for and get a job somewhere as opposed to creating one. And there should be more in the way of apprentiships for everything. Rather than getting in debt to not learn how to do something, employers should be able to have trainee programs where you get "certified" in lieu of payment and if you are successful you already have a job. If you fail at least you aren't in debt.

[erowe1]

There are laws that state the companies need to hire US citizens first.

How can you possibly support that?

[erowe1]

They are not citizens.

What does that have to do with anything?

You might as well prioritize hiring people because they have widow's peaks or freckles.

[trojansc82]

What does that have to do with anything?

You might as well prioritize hiring people because they have widow's peaks or freckles.

What does it have to do with anything?

Last time I checked, the U.S. was a nation. A nation is composed of citizens.

There is no point in being a citizen of the U.S. if the employment process for IT jobs discriminates against you.

Why don't we just join with India and become Amerindia. That way we can do away with any pesky laws that get in the way of hiring any foreigners from India. Better yet, just make the US open to anyone in the world! But when we apply to work in their countries, we won't be given the same opportunity.

[trojansc82]

How can you possibly support that?

I've stated before that I am a nationalist. I believe in the US as a nation that does not import foreign workers at the expense of US workers.

We already have the O1 visa for people like Albert Einstein and Tesla. We don't need any other visas, US citizens can learn how to code.

[erowe1]

There is no point in being a citizen of the U.S.

Should there be?