"Limited Government" Texas Republicans Gut Local Fracking Bans

[fr33]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N829A20150417

Cry not about Obamacare. The state of Texas taking over your municipality is no different than than the feds overruling our state.

Denton bans fracking by popular vote. The Texas Legislature tells Denton residents, that they have no say so.

[William Tell]

Not sure I totally agree with you. Unless the legislature is violating the Texas Constitution, I don't think its really comparable to federal overreach. I don't know all the ins and outs of the fracking issue. I'm sure the Denton had its reasons for the ban, probably some legitimate ones. I do know its complicated by the fact that many people don't have recognized mineral rights. But I don't think cities should be allowed to ban much relating to private property.

I can kinda see both sides to it. I'm not sure what the best liberty view on this kind of bill is.

[fr33]

Not sure I totally agree with you. Unless the legislature is violating the Texas Constitution, I don't think its really comparable to federal overreach. I don't know all the ins and outs of the fracking issue. I'm sure the Denton had its reasons for the ban, probably some legitimate ones. I do know its complicated by the fact that many people don't have recognized mineral rights. But I don't think cities should be allowed to ban much relating to private property.

I can kinda see both sides to it. I'm not sure what the best liberty view on this kind of bill is.

Its just like if Ted Cruz or Jeb Bush becomes president and then decides the DEA should enforce federal marijuana laws in Colorado, Washington, Oregon, or California.

[sam1952]

Here in PA local municipalities can ban fracking should they choose too. Some have, some haven't. I like the idea that local communities can govern themselves and keep the state out of it. Fracking is allowed where I live.

[William Tell]

It just like if Ted Cruz or Jeb Bush becomes president and then decides the DEA should enforce federal marijuana laws in Colorado, Washington, Oregon, or California.

While I kind of see your point, I don't think its that simple. Federal drug laws are both anti liberty, which is obviously bad, and unconstitutional. I don't think my town should be allowed to ban guns for example. But I don't want the feds involved if that became an issue, I just want the state and local government to leave me alone. Of course, on the other hand, I want my local officials to not enforce bad laws from higher up. Local control doesn't always bring liberty.

[William Tell]

Here in PA local municipalities can ban fracking should they choose too. Some have, some haven't. I like the idea that local communities can govern themselves and keep the state out of it. Fracking is allowed where I live.

I guess I don't know enough about how fracking affects people and private property. Generally I think doing whatever you want with your property is fine. But if you start making people sick or something its a different story. Laws relating to mineral rights are a mess too, in my opinion. The whole topic is kind of sticky.

[Natural Citizen]

Here in PA local municipalities can ban fracking should they choose too. Some have, some haven't. I like the idea that local communities can govern themselves and keep the state out of it. Fracking is allowed where I live.

Did you hear about this? Lifelong ‘frack gag’: Two Pennsylvania children banned from discussing fracking

The 7- and 10-year-old children of a Pennsylvania couple that reached a settlement following a lawsuit involving health issues brought on by fracking have been barred from discussing details of the case for the rest of their lives.

"I, frankly, your Honor, as an attorney, to be honest with you, I don't know if that's possible that you can give up the First Amendment rights of a child," stated Villari.

[pacodever]

Same issue currently in OK w/ my hometown of Stillwater trying to pass municipal ordinances w/ two bills currently in OK legislature:

The proposed Stillwater ordinance was sparked by an oil company’s drilling 300 feet behind a resident’s home, Darlington said. The city’s Planning Commission approved the ordinance Feb. 10, sending it to the City Council, which has delayed a vote three times since then.

It would allow the city to require 1,000-foot “setbacks” of oil and gas drilling operations from properties including homes, churches, parks and medical facilities. The proposed ordinance also contains limits on noise, lights, gas flares and dust.

The two bills pending in the Legislature would limit the ability of local governments to regulate drilling issues including setbacks, noise, odor and dust. The bills would bar local governments from banning drilling outright.

Both bills are in legislative committees, with at least one likely to be heard by the end of next week.

House Bill 2178 would allow cities to pass ordinances with “reasonable” regulations on setbacks, noise, odors and traffic involving oil and gas drilling. The bill gives authority to the Oklahoma Corporation Commission to determine what ordinances are reasonable.

The second bill, Senate Bill 809, contains similar language but would also define such regulations as a “taking” of private property rights. It would require cities to pay mineral owners for land that cannot be developed, possibly ending in lawsuits and adverse court rulings.

Darlington said Morgan told her that version of the legislation “would cost the city a lot of money in lawsuits.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gover...b0a661527.html

[sam1952]

Did you hear about this? Lifelong ‘frack gag’: Two Pennsylvania children banned from discussing fracking

Yeah, I kinda remember when that was happening. Hickory is in the same county I live in, different townships. I'm not privy to the details of the case but if I remember it had more to do with the holding ponds and odors causing their health concerns. Hickory can be pretty rural so not sure how close other neighbors were. There were no other claims though.

Whether news sources are lazy I don't know but in the link provided the photos used, other than the one with holding pond, are from Mortrose PA. Hundreds of miles away from hickory.

The idea of a gag order on the children is just ridicules. How can anyone give up someone else's rights, stupid.

Funny side note. The judge from the case, Paul Pozonsky, had his own day in court..


March 20, 2015 – A former Washington County judge accused of taking cocaine submitted as evidence in cases he presided over likely will plead guilty today as part of an agreement with prosecutors. Defense attorneys for Paul Pozonsky were still “honing” Thursday which crime or crimes he will plead to. The 59-year-old, who retired in 2012 during a state grand jury investigation into the allegations, was charged with theft, drug possession, misapplication of entrusted property, obstruction and conflict of interest, a violation of the state ethics law.

In 2012, investigators found some evidence bags in his chambers had been tampered with, their seals broken, with some of the drugs inside replaced with baking soda. Mr. Pozonsky’s DNA also was found. Visiting Judge Daniel Howsare of Bedford County, who is presiding over the case, denied Mr. Del Greco’s motion to suppress that evidence and scheduled the case for trial. Mr. Del Greco said sentencing will not occur today. Mr. Pozonsky, who is expected to appear in court, lives with his wife in her native Alaska.

[fr33]

This is happening when oil and natural gas prices are at a very low price. Still that lobby has such a strangle hold over the legislators.

[sam1952]

This is happening when oil and natural gas prices are at a very low price. Still that lobby has such a strangle hold over the legislators.

Hey, the legislators knows where the money is. Do you think they want that control going to the people who actually live there when they can get a buck out of it..

[Natural Citizen]

Yeah, I kinda remember when that was happening. Hickory is in the same county I live in, different townships. I'm not privy to the details of the case but if I remember it had more to do with the holding ponds and odors causing their health concerns. Hickory can be pretty rural so not sure how close other neighbors were. There were no other claims though.

Whether news sources are lazy I don't know but in the link provided the photos used, other than the one with holding pond, are from Mortrose PA. Hundreds of miles away from hickory.

The idea of a gag order on the children is just ridicules. How can anyone give up someone else's rights, stupid.

Funny side note. The judge from the case, Paul Pozonsky, had his own day in court..


March 20, 2015 – A former Washington County judge accused of taking cocaine submitted as evidence in cases he presided over likely will plead guilty today as part of an agreement with prosecutors. Defense attorneys for Paul Pozonsky were still “honing” Thursday which crime or crimes he will plead to. The 59-year-old, who retired in 2012 during a state grand jury investigation into the allegations, was charged with theft, drug possession, misapplication of entrusted property, obstruction and conflict of interest, a violation of the state ethics law.

In 2012, investigators found some evidence bags in his chambers had been tampered with, their seals broken, with some of the drugs inside replaced with baking soda. Mr. Pozonsky’s DNA also was found. Visiting Judge Daniel Howsare of Bedford County, who is presiding over the case, denied Mr. Del Greco’s motion to suppress that evidence and scheduled the case for trial. Mr. Del Greco said sentencing will not occur today. Mr. Pozonsky, who is expected to appear in court, lives with his wife in her native Alaska.

That's funny about the judge. I didn't hear about that. PA has been an interesting state to watch with all of this.

[sam1952]

Even funnier is this same judge handled most of the DUI cases in the county.

I've been living in the middle of a shale gas boom and fracking since 2008. I've seen the good and bad side of it. Which is why I support local decisions and involvement in the process.

[Matt Collins]

Faulty logic is faulty...


The state governments created the federal government, therefore the federal government is supposed to be subservient to the state governments.

However, the cities and counties did not create a state government, therefore the state governments are not subservient to city and state governments. Cities and counties only exist at the discretion of the state governments and are subservient thereto.




Also - why would it be ok for a city or county to be able to infringe on one's rights?

[Pericles]

It is much better to have local government violate property rights than if the state or national government does it,

[Matt Collins]

It is much better to have local government violate property rights than if the state or national government does it,

Absolutely because it is VERY easy to overthrow local elected officials in an election.... most city council / county commission seats are won by a few hundred if not a few dozen seats.


And then there is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

[fr33]

It is much better to have local government violate property rights than if the state or national government does it,

There doesn't seem to be much difference between them. It's just several mafias fighting over turf.

I would have voted against it if I lived in Denton. It's just an interesting limited government story so I pointed it out. Try to secede as a state or a city. The outcome will be the same.

[truthspeaker]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N829A20150417

Cry not about Obamacare. The state of Texas taking over your municipality is no different than than the feds overruling our state.

Denton bans fracking by popular vote. The Texas Legislature tells Denton residents, that they have no say so.

Thank you! This! So this! A lot of liberty folks don't understand about that Texas mineral rights are separate from land. If I buy a piece of property, chances are the mineral rights had already been sold to a big corporation. That corporation can then go on MY LAND to drill. It has happened repeatedly in the Houston area, sometimes even in the middle of small towns next to residences. I was shocked our liberty GOP voted for this.

[acptulsa]

Faulty logic is faulty...


The state governments created the federal government, therefore the federal government is supposed to be subservient to the state governments.

However, the cities and counties did not create a state government, therefore the state governments are not subservient to city and state governments. Cities and counties only exist at the discretion of the state governments and are subservient thereto.

So, you have no use for the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which hold that anything that can be left to the people should be?

And you don't much cotton to the idea that local, state and federal governments are all there to serve the people, and are subservient thereto?

Absolutely because it is VERY easy to overthrow local elected officials in an election.... most city council / county commission seats are won by a few hundred if not a few dozen seats.

Now you're contradicting yourself.

Stop straddling the fence and tell us whether local governments are subservient to state governments, or if local governments are the most logical repositories for these powers, and the most legitimate, most responsive and purest republics.