Bulldoze the U.S. Tax Code

[Brian4Liberty]

Bulldoze the U.S. Tax Code
by Breitbart News - 15 Apr 2015

There is no excuse for today’s federal tax system. It obstructs wealth-creation and jobs. The only interests it serves well are those of the political class. When they debate among themselves about the proper level of taxation, it’s clear that they think the federal government can tax at any level they want.

Many people were enraged when it was revealed in May 2013 that the federal government’s taxing authority, the Internal Revenue Service, was playing favorites with tax-exempt organizations. Specifically, groups seen as hostile to big government (and therefore to its feeding mechanism, the IRS) were subjected to heightened scrutiny that amounted to harassment. In some cases, IRS officials leaked confidential information about disfavored groups to their political opponents. In response to this scandal, many have called for the reform of the IRS, but they miss the point. The IRS is politicized no matter which party is in power. No reform will change human nature. The real disgrace is that Americans—whose country was founded on individual freedom—cower before the political creation that is the IRS every April 15. The real disgrace is a tax code that is a monument to social engineering. The tax code rewards some groups for being “non-profit,” some for buying a house with debt, and others for having children.
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Now, the federal government has a necessary role in protecting citizens from foreign intruders, administering justice, and protecting property rights. It needs revenue, but not nearly as much as it receives. The best tax, therefore, might be a tax on consumption rather than income—what some call the Fair Tax. The first reason for such a tax is that in a free country, citizens should not have to prove their income to the federal government. Adopting a consumption tax and abolishing all other taxes and deductions would end the IRS altogether.

Second, even a flat income tax still puts a price on work. A sensible tax system would make work “free” while taxing consumption. Some will suggest that such a tax would penalize retailers, but people produce in order to consume. The wants of human beings are unlimited, so a light tax on consumption would have a negligible effect on consumption.

Third, even if a consumption tax did have a noticeable effect on spending, society would be better off. To return to my refrain, there are no companies, no start-ups, and no jobs without savings and investment first. If people avoid consumption, their savings will supply the credit to the innovators of tomorrow. All the products we enjoy today are the result of past savings, and a small national tax on consumption would free up enormous amounts of capital to fund the next Steve Jobs.

Fourth, a consumption tax would be blind. It would be hard for politicians to impose a graduated consumption tax with an eye on playing favorites. Instead, we’d all be equal before the tax law, as we should be.

Fifth, and perhaps most critical, a consumption tax is the only way citizens can starve the federal government. Theoretically, a consumption tax, unlike a flat income tax, would give citizens the power to pay the government less some years. This is particularly important when people are unhappy with the federal government, but it’s also important when we citizens are having a difficult year such that we’re consuming less. If we’re struggling, so should the government struggle through reduced revenue intake.
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More: http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-u-s-tax-code/

[euphemia]

I totally agree. I think a game winner for a candidate would be to say there will be a date certain beyond which the current tax code will cease to exist. Congress will have to come up with a simply-worded flat tax, payable monthly, quarterly, or whatever, directly by the taxpayer. The payroll deduction will go away with the abolition of the current system.

I think the uber rich should have to write their own check for taxes. I think some people have no idea how much tax they pay, and I think some of them would be very ticked off if they knew.

[Danke]

We already have too many on food stamps, you want to add to that with all those tax attorneys, agents, etc?!

[devil21]

Yep, been a lot of flat tax articles, end the IRS articles, and related tax overhaul articles being put out lately, in preparation for the big changes coming. It's not commentary, it's conditioning.

see: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-money-is-done

[tod evans]

We already have too many on food stamps, you want to add to that with all those tax attorneys, agents, etc?!

Not I, I'd like to see them all strung up in public....

[ILUVRP]

would a consumption tax be the same as a value added tax ( vat ) , in most countries the vat tax amounts to a 20% tack on to the price .

what would be the % of the consumption tax , would there also be a consumption tax on services .

would a business pay a consumption tax on the items it buys ?

i wonder how millions of people living on ss and small savings ( now getting about 1/2 % ) would be able to afford anything .

[Danke]

would a consumption tax be the same as a value added tax ( vat ) , in most countries the vat tax amounts to a 20% tack on to the price .

what would be the % of the consumption tax , would there also be a consumption tax on services .

would a business pay a consumption tax on the items it buys ?

i wonder how millions of people living on ss and small savings ( now getting about 1/2 % ) would be able to afford anything .

Well, with less waste, productivity should go up and prices down.

[euphemia]

I think there needs to be a flat tax, no deductions. Every man, woman, and child needs to know there is a cost to living here. If they pay tax, then they know. If people want to pay less taxes, they can decide what they are willing to pay for. And they need to find a way to pay their tax. There are some people who have never worked for anything their whole lives because the taxpayers pay it all. There are kids that do more work by the time they graduate than some people do their whole lives. That's a shame, and a flat tax will do it. People do not get that their kids are born with a share of tax debt, and when half the people who live here don't pay anything, that's just a shame. It needs to be big, it needs to be visible, and it needs to be by vote of the people.

[TheTexan]

America is #1 in large part because of our great tax system. For example we are #1 by like a huge gigantic margin in terms of collecting taxes from people who work overseas.

Why fix whats not broken? Unless you want to end up like Greenland which has a huge flat tax, and that country is basically a footnote in the list of countries that actually matter.

[nayjevin]

[The Free Hornet]

I totally agree. I think a game winner for a candidate would be to say there will be a date certain beyond which the current tax code will cease to exist. Congress will have to come up with a simply-worded flat tax, payable monthly, quarterly, or whatever, directly by the taxpayer. The payroll deduction will go away with the abolition of the current system.

I think the uber rich should have to write their own check for taxes. I think some people have no idea how much tax they pay, and I think some of them would be very ticked off if they knew.

Who are you to dictate HOW the taxes are paid including specifics of who writes the check and whether voluntary payroll deductions are permitted? I favor a simpler system but if each American adds two silly mandates then that is 600,000,000 more laws.

[ILUVRP]

Well, with less waste, productivity should go up and prices down.

how's that work .

how about buying a house , with a vat all homes /cars/planes/boats/farms/all fuel will go up about 25% , or are we going to pick and choose what we want to tax .

i think at times people just throw bs against a wall and see what sticks , a val does not stick , i never see what we tax or how much . at least i do put out numbers , others may have ideas but at least put up numbers . don't just say " we need a vat or we need a national sales tax " .

i still think we need a flat tax , the numbers : everyone getting a pay check would get a $30,000 deduction then pay 18% on everything over 30k , no deductions for anything . gates/buffet/ceo's/hedge fund mfr's all would get a $30,000 deduction and pay 18% on anything over 30k .

as far as business its very simple : they would pay 20% on what they tell their stockholders they made , if they have 100 million shares and tell the stock holders they made $1/sh that's 100 million profit , their tax would be $20 million .

this is not rocket science .

[Zippyjuan]

I think there needs to be a flat tax, no deductions. Every man, woman, and child needs to know there is a cost to living here. If they pay tax, then they know. If people want to pay less taxes, they can decide what they are willing to pay for. And they need to find a way to pay their tax. There are some people who have never worked for anything their whole lives because the taxpayers pay it all. There are kids that do more work by the time they graduate than some people do their whole lives. That's a shame, and a flat tax will do it. People do not get that their kids are born with a share of tax debt, and when half the people who live here don't pay anything, that's just a shame. It needs to be big, it needs to be visible, and it needs to be by vote of the people.

Flat tax would raise the taxes on over half of the country. The lower half. About half of all income tax filers owed zero net income taxes. You would likely be included in the "higher tax" category.

[Zippyjuan]

would a consumption tax be the same as a value added tax ( vat ) , in most countries the vat tax amounts to a 20% tack on to the price .

what would be the % of the consumption tax , would there also be a consumption tax on services .

would a business pay a consumption tax on the items it buys ?

i wonder how millions of people living on ss and small savings ( now getting about 1/2 % ) would be able to afford anything .

Maximum VAT in Europe is 25% and many countries are there. That is 25% added to the price of almost everything. (There are exemptions- milk in a UK grocery store is not taxed but a glass of milk in a restaurant is taxed at their top rate of 20%). In addition to income taxes and corporate taxation.

I would agree that taxes are too complicated but we must also be careful that proposed changes are for the better- not making them worse. Something like a VAT or consumption tax (national sales tax) would likely be IN ADDITION TO rather than INSTEAD OF our current system.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

As someone who believes in equality & completely free markets, I support no taxes at all. But that might be a bit too much to ask I guess.......

A consumption tax is one of the worse taxes out there because just like "inflation-tax" that so many people here like to talk about, it's easier to extract more tax from people without them even realizing how much they are actually paying; this is one of the reasons why socialist countries in Europe prefer consumption taxes. A consumption tax also leads to a legal maze (comparable to income tax code) where everybody bickers over what to tax, how much to tax, etc. which as has been said ends up with people not knowing how much tax they are paying; & you basically end up with a system where as prices rise because of higher tax, the workers blame the businesses for underpaying, businesses blame workers for asking too much, consumers get in on the blame-game & during all that, the real culprit - the government - is let off the hook.

I think there needs to be a flat tax, no deductions. Every man, woman, and child needs to know there is a cost to living here. If they pay tax, then they know. If people want to pay less taxes, they can decide what they are willing to pay for. And they need to find a way to pay their tax. There are some people who have never worked for anything their whole lives because the taxpayers pay it all. There are kids that do more work by the time they graduate than some people do their whole lives. That's a shame, and a flat tax will do it. People do not get that their kids are born with a share of tax debt, and when half the people who live here don't pay anything, that's just a shame. It needs to be big, it needs to be visible, and it needs to be by vote of the people.

I agree with the sentiment that a system where people know exactly how much tax they are paying is generally a better system, & in that sense, a flat income-tax, without any deductions or exemptions, would be simple as well as effective in making sure that everyone knows how much is leaving their pocket. It would also make it harder for the government to increase taxes because everyone would be affected by it & perhaps, there might even be a general downward pressure applied on the tax.

I'm not sure if you meant this or not but I think a system where people are able to pay less taxes by choosing not to patronize certain government schemes is a good idea. So those who support the war would have to pay into "war-fund" or whatever, & if you don't support it then you can skip it; same with welfare & a whole bunch of things but it would be difficult to make such a system politically viable because there are simply too many freeloaders around & the nature of democracy more or less facilitates such freeloading.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

About half of all income tax filers owed zero net income taxes.

You would likely be included in the "higher tax" category.

So let's say your claim is true. Half of all people pay no taxes. How is that fair? Your Democrat brethren are always citing "fairness," so shouldn't they pay their fair share? Shouldn't everyone pay something?

[tangent4ronpaul]

If they ever do this and get a one page tax form that anyone with a iQ over 50 could understand and fill out, i would be very tempted to start a company that buys up the old tax code books, shreds them, pulps them and makes handmade 'Freedom Paper' from the pulp.

If you want to make me very, very happy - do the same with the code of federal regulations!

-t

[TheTexan]

IMO, all taxes should be erased except on the super super rich. No need to raise their taxes either, just borrow the money. It'll be great for the economy.

[Brian4Liberty]

As someone who believes in equality & completely free markets, I support no taxes at all. But that might be a bit too much to ask I guess.......

A consumption tax is one of the worse taxes out there because just like "inflation-tax" that so many people here like to talk about, it's easier to extract more tax from people without them even realizing how much they are actually paying; this is one of the reasons why socialist countries in Europe prefer consumption taxes. A consumption tax also leads to a legal maze (comparable to income tax code) where everybody bickers over what to tax, how much to tax, etc.

In States with Sales Tax, it is very obvious. It is tacked on when the purchase occurs.

As far as exceptions and exemptions, that applies to any tax system. You are talking about the corruption of the system. Flat income tax or flat sales tax, no difference. The minute they start adding exceptions, it is no longer "flat".

[ChristianAnarchist]

We already have too many on food stamps, you want to add to that with all those tax attorneys, agents, etc?!

Wait... I want some food stamps before they're done away with. I figure the fastest way to kill the beast is to milk it dry. We need 50% of the population on 100% disability RIGHT NOW!! (Damn!! My back is KILLING me!!)

[Paul Or Nothing II]

So let's say your claim is true. Half of all people pay no taxes. How is that fair? Your Democrat brethren are always citing "fairness," so shouldn't they pay their fair share? Shouldn't everyone pay something?

Good point. How about everyone paying the same thing? Like X amount of money? I mean people wouldn't want to have less rights because they are paying less, right? Under the current situation, everyone paying about $10,000 would raise 3+ trillion in taxes; that should get people voting for less taxes! Of course, it's not going to happen but just on the topic of equality & fairness.......

In States with Sales Tax, it is very obvious. It is tacked on when the purchase occurs.

As far as exceptions and exemptions, that applies to any tax system. You are talking about the corruption of the system. Flat income tax or flat sales tax, no difference. The minute they start adding exceptions, it is no longer "flat".

Fair point but I think it's easier for people to overlook a few dollars here & there on their purchases & most people won't have the inclination to keep track of EXACTLY how much they are paying to the government; on the other hand, having to write a check to the government would let everyone know exactly how much they are paying & the psychological impact of paying a larger amount would be different, it would definitely encourage more people to vote for less taxes.