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Thread: Rand Paul Opposes Amnesty and Believes We Must Secure The Border While Encouraging Legal Immig

  1. #31

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    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...gration-reform

    IMMIGRATION REFORM THAT WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

    The three core principles of Donald J. Trump's immigration plan
    When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.
    Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:
    1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.
    2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.
    3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.
    Make Mexico Pay For The Wall
    For many years, Mexico’s leaders have been taking advantage of the United States by using illegal immigration to export the crime and poverty in their own country (as well as in other Latin American countries). They have even published pamphletson how to illegally immigrate to the United States. The costs for the United States have been extraordinary: U.S. taxpayers have been asked to pick up hundreds of billions in healthcare costs, housing costs, education costs, welfare costs, etc. Indeed, the annual cost of free tax credits alone paid to illegal immigrants quadrupled to $4.2 billion in 2011. The effects on jobseekers have also been disastrous, and black Americans have been particularly harmed.
    The impact in terms of crime has been tragic. In recent weeks, the headlines have been covered with cases of criminals who crossed our border illegally only to go on to commit horrific crimes against Americans. Most recently, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, with a long arrest record, is charged with breaking into a 64 year-old women’s home, crushing her skull and eye sockets with a hammer, raping her, and murdering her. The Police Chief in Santa Maria says the “blood trail” leads straight to Washington.
    In 2011, the Government Accountability Office found that there were a shocking 3 million arrests attached to the incarcerated alien population, including tens of thousands of violent beatings, rapes and murders.
    Meanwhile, Mexico continues to make billions on not only our bad trade deals but also relies heavily on the billions of dollars in remittances sent from illegal immigrants in the United States back to Mexico ($22 billion in 2013 alone).
    In short, the Mexican government has taken the United States to the cleaners. They are responsible for this problem, and they must help pay to clean it up.
    The cost of building a permanent border wall pales mightily in comparison to what American taxpayers spend every single year on dealing with the fallout of illegal immigration on their communities, schools and unemployment offices.
    Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore.
    Defend The Laws And Constitution Of The United States
    America will only be great as long as America remains a nation of laws that lives according to the Constitution. No one is above the law. The following steps will return to the American people the safety of their laws, which politicians have stolen from them:
    Triple the number of ICE officers. As the President of the ICE Officers’ Council explained in Congressional testimony: “Only approximately 5,000 officers and agents within ICE perform the lion’s share of ICE’s immigration mission…Compare that to the Los Angeles Police Department at approximately 10,000 officers. Approximately 5,000 officers in ICE cover 50 states, Puerto Rico and Guam, and are attempting to enforce immigration law against 11 million illegal aliens already in the interior of the United States. Since 9-11, the U.S. Border Patrol has tripled in size, while ICE’s immigration enforcement arm, Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO), has remained at relatively the same size.” This will be funded by accepting the recommendation of the Inspector General for Tax Administration and eliminating tax credit payments to illegal immigrants.
    Nationwide e-verify. This simple measure will protect jobs for unemployed Americans.
    Mandatory return of all criminal aliens. The Obama Administration has released 76,000 aliens from its custody with criminal convictions since 2013 alone. All criminal aliens must be returned to their home countries, a process which can be aided by canceling any visas to foreign countries which will not accept their own criminals, and making it a separate and additional crime to commit an offense while here illegally.
    Detention—not catch-and-release. Illegal aliens apprehended crossing the border must be detained until they are sent home, no more catch-and-release.
    Defund sanctuary cities. Cut-off federal grants to any city which refuses to cooperate with federal law enforcement.
    Enhanced penalties for overstaying a visa. Millions of people come to the United States on temporary visas but refuse to leave, without consequence. This is a threat to national security. Individuals who refuse to leave at the time their visa expires should be subject to criminal penalties; this will also help give local jurisdictions the power to hold visa overstays until federal authorities arrive. Completion of a visa tracking system – required by law but blocked by lobbyists – will be necessary as well.
    Cooperate with local gang task forces. ICE officers should accompany local police departments conducting raids of violent street gangs like MS-13 and the 18th street gang, which have terrorized the country. All illegal aliens in gangs should be apprehended and deported. Again, quoting Chris Crane: “ICE Officers and Agents are forced to apply the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) Directive, not to children in schools, but to adult inmates in jails. If an illegal-alien inmate simply claims eligibility, ICE is forced to release the alien back into the community. This includes serious criminals who have committed felonies, who have assaulted officers, and who prey on children…ICE officers should be required to place detainers on every illegal alien they encounter in jails and prisons, since these aliens not only violated immigration laws, but then went on to engage in activities that led to their arrest by police; ICE officers should be required to issue Notices to Appear to all illegal aliens with criminal convictions, DUI convictions, or a gang affiliation; ICE should be working with any state or local drug or gang task force that asks for such assistance.”
    End birthright citizenship. This remains the biggest magnet for illegal immigration. By a 2:1 margin, voters say it’s the wrong policy, including Harry Reid who said “no sane country” would give automatic citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants.
    Put American Workers First
    Decades of disastrous trade deals and immigration policies have destroyed our middle class. Today, nearly 40% of black teenagers are unemployed. Nearly 30% of Hispanic teenagers are unemployed. For black Americans without high school diplomas, the bottom has fallen out: more than 70% were employed in 1960, compared to less than 40% in 2000. Across the economy, the percentage of adults in the labor force has collapsed to a level not experienced in generations. As CBS news wrote in a piece entitled “America’s incredible shrinking middle class”: “If the middle-class is the economic backbone of America, then the country is developing osteoporosis.”
    The influx of foreign workers holds down salaries, keeps unemployment high, and makes it difficult for poor and working class Americans – including immigrants themselves and their children – to earn a middle class wage. Nearly half of all immigrants and their US-born children currently live in or near poverty, including more than 60 percent of Hispanic immigrants. Every year, we voluntarily admit another 2 million new immigrants, guest workers, refugees, and dependents, growing our existing all-time historic record population of 42 million immigrants. We need to control the admission of new low-earning workers in order to: help wages grow, get teenagers back to work, aid minorities’ rise into the middle class, help schools and communities falling behind, and to ensure our immigrant members of the national family become part of the American dream.
    Additionally, we need to stop giving legal immigrant visas to people bent on causing us harm. From the 9/11 hijackers, to the Boston Bombers, and many others, our immigration system is being used to attack us. The President of the immigration caseworkers union declared in a statement on ISIS: “We've become the visa clearinghouse for the world.”
    Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
    Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
    Requirement to hire American workers first. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need to companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
    End welfare abuse. Applicants for entry to the United States should be required to certify that they can pay for their own housing, healthcare and other needs before coming to the U.S.
    Jobs program for inner city youth. The J-1 visa jobs program for foreign youth will be terminated and replaced with a resume bank for inner city youth provided to all corporate subscribers to the J-1 visa program.
    Refugee program for American children. Increase standards for the admission of refugees and asylum-seekers to crack down on abuses. Use the monies saved on expensive refugee programs to help place American children without parents in safer homes and communities, and to improve community safety in high crime neighborhoods in the United States.
    Immigration moderation. Before any new green cards are issued to foreign workers abroad, there will be a pause where employers will have to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed immigrant and native workers. This will help reverse women's plummeting workplace participation rate, grow wages, and allow record immigration levels to subside to more moderate historical averages.



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  3. #32

  4. #33

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    Rand is the epitome of a generic "conservative" on this issue. Illegal immigration is a huge problem, but so too is the current legal immigration system. America needs at least five or ten years with zero net immigration, like what was done previously after big influxes. If Rand had some balls, he could've taken this issue away from Trump before Trump even announced, but he's so utterly terrified of being called racist, that he's letting it get away from him. Sad, really.
    NeoReactionary. Anarcho-Feudalist.

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  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by menciusmoldbug View Post
    Dude got banned.
    But the fact of the matter is that there are often times in life even a curmudgeonly, misanthropic old grouch like myself has to "join the team" to accomplish a larger goal. -AF

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  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by menciusmoldbug View Post
    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...gration-reform

    IMMIGRATION REFORM THAT WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

    The three core principles of Donald J. Trump's immigration plan
    When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.
    Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:
    1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.
    2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.
    3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.
    Make Mexico Pay For The Wall
    For many years, Mexico’s leaders have been taking advantage of the United States by using illegal immigration to export the crime and poverty in their own country (as well as in other Latin American countries). They have even published pamphletson how to illegally immigrate to the United States. The costs for the United States have been extraordinary: U.S. taxpayers have been asked to pick up hundreds of billions in healthcare costs, housing costs, education costs, welfare costs, etc. Indeed, the annual cost of free tax credits alone paid to illegal immigrants quadrupled to $4.2 billion in 2011. The effects on jobseekers have also been disastrous, and black Americans have been particularly harmed.
    The impact in terms of crime has been tragic. In recent weeks, the headlines have been covered with cases of criminals who crossed our border illegally only to go on to commit horrific crimes against Americans. Most recently, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, with a long arrest record, is charged with breaking into a 64 year-old women’s home, crushing her skull and eye sockets with a hammer, raping her, and murdering her. The Police Chief in Santa Maria says the “blood trail” leads straight to Washington.
    In 2011, the Government Accountability Office found that there were a shocking 3 million arrests attached to the incarcerated alien population, including tens of thousands of violent beatings, rapes and murders.
    Meanwhile, Mexico continues to make billions on not only our bad trade deals but also relies heavily on the billions of dollars in remittances sent from illegal immigrants in the United States back to Mexico ($22 billion in 2013 alone).
    In short, the Mexican government has taken the United States to the cleaners. They are responsible for this problem, and they must help pay to clean it up.
    The cost of building a permanent border wall pales mightily in comparison to what American taxpayers spend every single year on dealing with the fallout of illegal immigration on their communities, schools and unemployment offices.
    Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore.
    Defend The Laws And Constitution Of The United States
    America will only be great as long as America remains a nation of laws that lives according to the Constitution. No one is above the law. The following steps will return to the American people the safety of their laws, which politicians have stolen from them:
    Triple the number of ICE officers. As the President of the ICE Officers’ Council explained in Congressional testimony: “Only approximately 5,000 officers and agents within ICE perform the lion’s share of ICE’s immigration mission…Compare that to the Los Angeles Police Department at approximately 10,000 officers. Approximately 5,000 officers in ICE cover 50 states, Puerto Rico and Guam, and are attempting to enforce immigration law against 11 million illegal aliens already in the interior of the United States. Since 9-11, the U.S. Border Patrol has tripled in size, while ICE’s immigration enforcement arm, Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO), has remained at relatively the same size.” This will be funded by accepting the recommendation of the Inspector General for Tax Administration and eliminating tax credit payments to illegal immigrants.
    Nationwide e-verify. This simple measure will protect jobs for unemployed Americans.
    Mandatory return of all criminal aliens. The Obama Administration has released 76,000 aliens from its custody with criminal convictions since 2013 alone. All criminal aliens must be returned to their home countries, a process which can be aided by canceling any visas to foreign countries which will not accept their own criminals, and making it a separate and additional crime to commit an offense while here illegally.
    Detention—not catch-and-release. Illegal aliens apprehended crossing the border must be detained until they are sent home, no more catch-and-release.
    Defund sanctuary cities. Cut-off federal grants to any city which refuses to cooperate with federal law enforcement.
    Enhanced penalties for overstaying a visa. Millions of people come to the United States on temporary visas but refuse to leave, without consequence. This is a threat to national security. Individuals who refuse to leave at the time their visa expires should be subject to criminal penalties; this will also help give local jurisdictions the power to hold visa overstays until federal authorities arrive. Completion of a visa tracking system – required by law but blocked by lobbyists – will be necessary as well.
    Cooperate with local gang task forces. ICE officers should accompany local police departments conducting raids of violent street gangs like MS-13 and the 18th street gang, which have terrorized the country. All illegal aliens in gangs should be apprehended and deported. Again, quoting Chris Crane: “ICE Officers and Agents are forced to apply the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) Directive, not to children in schools, but to adult inmates in jails. If an illegal-alien inmate simply claims eligibility, ICE is forced to release the alien back into the community. This includes serious criminals who have committed felonies, who have assaulted officers, and who prey on children…ICE officers should be required to place detainers on every illegal alien they encounter in jails and prisons, since these aliens not only violated immigration laws, but then went on to engage in activities that led to their arrest by police; ICE officers should be required to issue Notices to Appear to all illegal aliens with criminal convictions, DUI convictions, or a gang affiliation; ICE should be working with any state or local drug or gang task force that asks for such assistance.”
    End birthright citizenship. This remains the biggest magnet for illegal immigration. By a 2:1 margin, voters say it’s the wrong policy, including Harry Reid who said “no sane country” would give automatic citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants.
    Put American Workers First
    Decades of disastrous trade deals and immigration policies have destroyed our middle class. Today, nearly 40% of black teenagers are unemployed. Nearly 30% of Hispanic teenagers are unemployed. For black Americans without high school diplomas, the bottom has fallen out: more than 70% were employed in 1960, compared to less than 40% in 2000. Across the economy, the percentage of adults in the labor force has collapsed to a level not experienced in generations. As CBS news wrote in a piece entitled “America’s incredible shrinking middle class”: “If the middle-class is the economic backbone of America, then the country is developing osteoporosis.”
    The influx of foreign workers holds down salaries, keeps unemployment high, and makes it difficult for poor and working class Americans – including immigrants themselves and their children – to earn a middle class wage. Nearly half of all immigrants and their US-born children currently live in or near poverty, including more than 60 percent of Hispanic immigrants. Every year, we voluntarily admit another 2 million new immigrants, guest workers, refugees, and dependents, growing our existing all-time historic record population of 42 million immigrants. We need to control the admission of new low-earning workers in order to: help wages grow, get teenagers back to work, aid minorities’ rise into the middle class, help schools and communities falling behind, and to ensure our immigrant members of the national family become part of the American dream.
    Additionally, we need to stop giving legal immigrant visas to people bent on causing us harm. From the 9/11 hijackers, to the Boston Bombers, and many others, our immigration system is being used to attack us. The President of the immigration caseworkers union declared in a statement on ISIS: “We've become the visa clearinghouse for the world.”
    Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
    Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
    Requirement to hire American workers first. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need to companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
    End welfare abuse. Applicants for entry to the United States should be required to certify that they can pay for their own housing, healthcare and other needs before coming to the U.S.
    Jobs program for inner city youth. The J-1 visa jobs program for foreign youth will be terminated and replaced with a resume bank for inner city youth provided to all corporate subscribers to the J-1 visa program.
    Refugee program for American children. Increase standards for the admission of refugees and asylum-seekers to crack down on abuses. Use the monies saved on expensive refugee programs to help place American children without parents in safer homes and communities, and to improve community safety in high crime neighborhoods in the United States.
    Immigration moderation. Before any new green cards are issued to foreign workers abroad, there will be a pause where employers will have to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed immigrant and native workers. This will help reverse women's plummeting workplace participation rate, grow wages, and allow record immigration levels to subside to more moderate historical averages.
    It is a good plan. And yes Rand should have owned this issue. Flooding the country with poor unskilled people does nothing for the economy and only grows government.

  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Dude got banned.
    Damn shame.

    Guess he told too much truth.

    That's usually what precipitates a ban here.

  8. #37

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    At the next debate, I would love for Rand when questioned about wars; to say we should stop intervening in other countries and protect our own. Take a strong stand against open borders. We have no idea how many ISIS are crossing the southern border, on Obama's watch (FOX will love that). Secure the border, stop welfare to illegal immigrants. Offer illegals a free plane ticket back home. Forget the fricken court stuff Judge Nap is talking about. Once you cut off free housing, free Obamacare, free food; they will go back home; especially with a $200. free plane ticket ONE WAY.

  9. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFF View Post
    Guess he told too much truth.

    That's usually what precipitates a ban here.
    Well, in that case, since you are not banned, we can safely conclude (by your own "logic") that you do not tell too much truth.

    Good to know. Thanks for the heads-up ...

  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    At the next debate, I would love for Rand when questioned about wars; to say we should stop intervening in other countries and protect our own. Take a strong stand against open borders. We have no idea how many ISIS are crossing the southern border, on Obama's watch (FOX will love that). Secure the border, stop welfare to illegal immigrants. Offer illegals a free plane ticket back home. Forget the fricken court stuff Judge Nap is talking about. Once you cut off free housing, free Obamacare, free food; they will go back home; especially with a $200. free plane ticket ONE WAY.
    Added to that- no more catch and release, and mandatory prison sentences for those that get deported once (with the free plane ticket) and then get caught entering illegally again.

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    Added to that- no more catch and release, and mandatory prison sentences for those that get deported once (with the free plane ticket) and then get caught entering illegally again.
    Sorry. You're out of luck. Trump flip flopped on that. Now he wants his wall built with a 'big, beautiful door' by which he will let all the people he just deported right back in.

    He said so on CBS Sunday morning. With millions watching.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Inflation goes to sellers, not to the Fed. If inflation is two percent, the person you buy something from is charging you two percent more. He gets that money- not the Fed.
    The seller has to pay more 'dollars' to cover his expenses, and his expenses 'went up' because the dollar is worth less than it was yesterday, but it's the seller who raised the price--and the poor, beleaguered Fed and the banks that own it didn't get richer devaluing the 'dollar' by printing more of them.

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    Added to that- no more catch and release, and mandatory prison sentences for those that get deported once (with the free plane ticket) and then get caught entering illegally again.
    Awesome. I'm glad your a taxpayer.
    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,
    and unacknowledged by our laws;
    giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Well, in that case, since you are not banned, we can safely conclude (by your own "logic") that you do not tell too much truth.

    Good to know. Thanks for the heads-up ...
    Heads-up? Head shot, BOOM.

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again.
    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,
    and unacknowledged by our laws;
    giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Sorry. You're out of luck. Trump flip flopped on that. Now he wants his wall built with a 'big, beautiful door' by which he will let all the people he just deported right back in.

    He said so on CBS Sunday morning. With millions watching.
    What he said was that he wanted the illegals to come back legally. As a practical matter, because of current immigration law quotas, most would die long before they'd get off the wait list for the legal immigration track.

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    What he said was that he wanted the illegals to come back legally. As a practical matter, because of current immigration law quotas, most would die long before they'd get off the wait list for the legal immigration track.
    What do you think is the likelihood that Trump knows anything about that?

  16. #45

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    I believe that we need a mix of a closed and open border. We need strong border security to protect against people with dangerous intentions (such as terrorism) and I think that people need to be checked for any diseases that could be potentially dangerous to people near the immigrant, but anything more than that? If someone poses no danger to other people and is here to become an addition to society, why stop them? Why not just let them in?

  17. #46

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    What is Rand's position on those 4.5 million immigrants that are in the backlog?

  18. #47

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    I like trumps plan, but I believe the illegals should pay a hefty fine before they are given the boot.

  19. #48

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    I'd like to see what would be the best idea to deal with the 4 million legal immigrants who are waiting in line and are part of the immigration backlog. This is another class of immigrants we're talking about here, since they're in line and did their paper work.

  20. #49

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    I'd like some thoughts on the following idea.. it gets complicated with our stance against the IRS and the Tax Code, obviously. My main objection is it would give ICE more authority and gives government more intrusion into business affairs.

    Revocation of All Deductions, Credits and Subsidies - If any business is found to be hiring workers with no legal status, all expense deductions, tax credits and government subsidies are revoked. Tax liability is then adjusted accordingly without factoring these three elements that reduce liability. Companies violating this provision would be given one year to demonstrate that they have removed illegal workers and if they have been found not in compliance, the above revocations go into effect that next tax year. This is so business isn't entirely crippled by needing to respond immediately and allows time to transition their business model to hire legal workers. They would then be subject to random reviews up to 3-5 years.

    Reporting Illegal Hiring Program - Could something not be modeled around the anti-piracy programs? With those, employees are given a way to anonymously report illegal piracy and if the offending company is found to have broken license agreements via piracy, the employee who reported the activity is given a monetary reward. I feel this could be adopted in illegal hiring practices too. Perhaps it comes as a tax credit?

    -------

    Employee reporting serves to identify violations, ICE follows up and imposes the 1 year probation period on violations and then conducts a review the next year. By cutting off employment opportunity, it should cause self-deportation. This avoids the government needing to deport millions of illegal immigrants by force, while also not accepting amnesty as the only option. The risk of paying full tax liability with no deductions, credits, or subsidies is aggressive enough to discourage these hiring practices, but also doesn't impose the penalty immediately and provides an "amnesty" period of 1 year for businesses to correct the violation.

    IMO, it's more cost-effective than a wall and also removes most of the benefits of jumping the border in the first place.
    Last edited by dusman; 11-13-2015 at 01:18 AM.
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  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Well, in that case, since you are not banned, we can safely conclude (by your own "logic") that you do not tell too much truth.

    Good to know. Thanks for the heads-up ...
    Well, I think DFF got the last laugh in the end.

    DFF
    DFF is offline
    Banned
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    No enemies to the right

  22. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Well, I think DFF got the last laugh in the end [because DFF is now banned].
    Only if you don't understand the fallacy of affirming the consequent (which was my point about DFF's "logic" to begin with).

  23. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Only if you don't understand the fallacy of affirming the consequent (which was my point about DFF's "logic" to begin with).
    I wasn't claiming that what he said was logical, nor that I agree with it. Obviously! Just noticing a funny coincidence.
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    No enemies to the right

  24. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    I wasn't claiming that what he said was logical, nor that I agree with it. Obviously! Just noticing a funny coincidence.

  25. #54

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    Being libertarian and nationalist is somewhat at odds.
    "I have a strong temperamental attachment to the meaning of words. In the age I find myself in, that condemns me to a daily dose of pain." - John Derbyshire
    "Give me control of the scientists' money supply and I care not who fakes the results."
    "I can find millions of 'social problems' such as: 'Too many red-headed people have hangnails'." - Murray Rothbard

  26. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by merkelstan View Post
    Being libertarian and nationalist is somewhat at odds.
    Not in 2017.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  27. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Not in 2017.
    It's pretty complicated. Libertarians are supposed to judge people as individuals. Nationalists judge, at least partially, by ethnic groups.
    "I have a strong temperamental attachment to the meaning of words. In the age I find myself in, that condemns me to a daily dose of pain." - John Derbyshire
    "Give me control of the scientists' money supply and I care not who fakes the results."
    "I can find millions of 'social problems' such as: 'Too many red-headed people have hangnails'." - Murray Rothbard

  28. #57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by merkelstan View Post
    It's pretty complicated. Libertarians are supposed to judge people as individuals. Nationalists judge, at least partially, by ethnic groups.
    Globalism is swallowing up nations at an alarming rate. Even libertarians prefer a smaller pond.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  29. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Globalism is swallowing up nations at an alarming rate. Even libertarians prefer a smaller pond.
    My "smaller pond" doesn't require more Federal Government involvement. I don't particularly care to trade one for the other.
    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,
    and unacknowledged by our laws;
    giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

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