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Thread: Rand Paul Opposes Amnesty and Believes We Must Secure The Border While Encouraging Legal Immig

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  3. #2

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    About that guest worker program ... there are already 21 of them:

    http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-...igrant-workers

    Is he planning to reform this area at all, or just add a 22nd?

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    The Americans I know are concerned about this and the fact that there is no one in power representing us on this issue.

    Census: Record 51 million immigrants in 8 years, will account for 82% of U.S. growth
    Washington Examiner
    APRIL 22, 2015

    Source link: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ce...rticle/2563463

    Legal and illegal immigrants will hit a record high of 51 million in just eight years and eventually account for an astounding 82 percent of all population growth in America, according to new U.S. Census figures.

    ... The surge in immigrant population, both legal and illegal, threatens to slam into the presidential campaign as GOP candidates move to figure out what their position is and the president tries to use executive powers to exempt some 5 million illegals from deportation.

    ... "These numbers have important implications for workers, schools, infrastructure, congestion and the environment," said Steven Camarota, the [Center for Immigration Studies] director of research. "They also may have implications for our ability to successfully assimilate and integrate immigrants. Yet there has been almost no national debate about bringing in so many people legally each year, which is the primary factor driving these numbers."

    Those numbers are likely to shake up Washington's political debate over the 12 million illegals in America, the expected 70,000 expected to pour over the border this year and the 4.4 million legal immigrants on a State Department waiting list who have relatives or jobs in the U.S.
    Rand Paul would do well to become a leader in securing the border, returning illegals, enforcing current immigration laws and reviewing legal immigration needs from an HR supply/demand point of view.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by milgram View Post
    About that guest worker program ... there are already 21 of them:

    http://www.uscis.gov/working-united-...igrant-workers

    Is he planning to reform this area at all, or just add a 22nd?
    Hopefully he'll let it grow without limit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    enforcing current immigration laws
    What is it about current immigration laws that people love so much? Current immigration laws are stupid.

  7. #6

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    Our Constitution calls for equal protection under the law. Our current immigration laws do not do that. Legal immigrants spend a lot of time and money to get green cards so they can work. These are people with high levels of education and good English skills, excellent work skills, and their paperwork sits on someone's desk for years.

    On the other hand, we allow some groups to sneak across the border, or come on student visas when they never attend a class.

    If we are to have unlimited and fair immigration, then it should be according to one standard. We cannot show preference to some groups, or ignore the ones that don't follow protocol, while snubbing the ones who have good reasons to be here and who contribute to both the market and the community.

    With today's technology there is no excuse for a case to sit untouched for years. True equality would handle cases on a first-come-first-served basis, and would require that everyone pass through the same process in the same way.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    returning illegals
    Is that a euphemism for government agents kidnapping them from their homes and dumping them in Tijuana?

    reviewing legal immigration needs from an HR supply/demand point of view.
    Funny, that's what the market would do without arbitrary governmental restrictions on the number of immigrants allowed into the country.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Is that a euphemism for government agents kidnapping them from their homes and dumping them in Tijuana?
    You call apprehending and arresting criminals 'kidnapping?'

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    You call apprehending and arresting criminals 'kidnapping?'
    What crime did they commit?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    You call apprehending and arresting criminals 'kidnapping?'
    Would you call it kidnapping if you or I as individuals did it?

    If the answer is yes, then it's kidnapping when the government does it too.

  12. #11

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    Rand Paul 2016, defend our borders!
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Rand Paul 2016, defend our borders!
    I wish it were possible to separate the issues of border security and immigration in the public mind.

    I'm for free immigration, and also a very high level of border security.

    The latter should be the cornerstone of a rational anti-terrorism policy (contra arming both sides in Islamic civil wars ).
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

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    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    What is it about current immigration laws that people love so much? Current immigration laws are stupid.
    Agree 100%, and this is where Rand can seize the initiative and get himself back in the game. Rand needs to announce a major immigration initiative and then come out in support of totally scrapping the current immigration system in favor of an Australian style points system. A system under which (and Rand should use this direct quote), "potential immigrants are asked what they can do for America rather than the current system which asks only what America can do for them". If Rand did something like this, he'd skyrocket in the polls.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    Agree 100%, and this is where Rand can seize the initiative and get himself back in the game. Rand needs to announce a major immigration initiative and then come out in support of totally scrapping the current immigration system in favor of an Australian style points system. A system under which (and Rand should use this direct quote), "potential immigrants are asked what they can do for America rather than the current system which asks only what America can do for them". If Rand did something like this, he'd skyrocket in the polls.
    Answer: They will do the jobs that Americant's are unwilling or incapable of doing. Like those IT slackers down in Disney World that got replaced.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  16. #15

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    Don't be shy about it Rand... Shout it from the roof tops.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobismom View Post
    Our Constitution calls for equal protection under the law.
    It didn't originally say exactly that - lawmakers in the 19th century thought it was important, so they amended the constitution.

    As a student of the constitution, perhaps you can be the one who can finally point out to me where it says that the federal government shall have the power to make rules as to who is and is not a citizen, who is and is not allowed to be in the US, and also the power to eject people who fail to meet federal-government dictated criteria.

    Try not to spend too much time on the 10th Amendment in particular... I wouldn't want this exercise to point out the ridiculously anti-constitutional nature of the anti-immigration position.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  18. #17

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    Well, that would certainly put a kink in the NAU implementation agenda and timeline.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Well, that would certainly put a kink in the NAU implementation agenda and timeline.
    Exactly. Something the open borders crew is overlooking or just doesn't care about.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  20. #19

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    I have spent hours searching trying to determine if Rand is going to increase or decrease H-1B immigration and cannot find specifics. He is too silent on this issue.

    Since Rand is awfully close with Cruz it concerns me since Cruz is proposing to increase it by 500 percent. This regardless that studies show they are not needed with the glut of American IT workers.

    edit: this is not looking good, all I find are articles saying he will increase it but no direct quotes.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-16-2015 at 07:27 AM.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I have spent hours searching trying to determine if Rand is going to increase or decrease H-1B immigration and cannot find specifics. He is too silent on this issue.

    Since Rand is awfully close with Cruz it concerns me since Cruz is proposing to increase it by 500 percent. This regardless that studies show they are not needed with the glut of American IT workers.

    edit: this is not looking good, all I find are articles saying he will increase it but no direct quotes.
    This is all I can find, "And I think what I have tried to say is, what we want is more legal immigration, so we have less illegal immigration".

    And this, which I find troubling at best,
    National ID card for all citizens protects national security

    Immigration: I do not support amnesty, but rather I support a legal immigration process. I recognize that the country has been enriched by those who seek the American Dream and the desire for a better life, however, millions of illegal immigrants are crossing our border without our knowledge which threatens our national security.
    Foreign Policy & Defense: I believe that one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is national security.
    I introduced legislation that would make immigration reform conditional on Congress voting on whether the border is secure, establishing a national identification card system for citizens. My "Trust but Verify" amendment requires Congress to write and enforce a border security blueprint rather than relying on bureaucracies, such as the Department of Homeland Security, to come up with a plan. The amendment also would provide new national security safeguards to track the holders of student visas and those provided asylum and refugee status.
    Source: http://www.ontheissues.org/2016_Pres_Web.htm

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This is all I can find, "And I think what I have tried to say is, what we want is more legal immigration, so we have less illegal immigration".

    And this, which I find troubling at best,
    "National ID card for all citizens protects national security".

    It says from his campaign website, I think that site misattributed that quote.

    This is what I find on his campaign website for that issue at least.

    ...requiring completion of a border fence in five years and a protection against the federal government establishing a national identification card system for citizens.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-16-2015 at 08:19 AM.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    "National ID card for all citizens protects national security".

    It says from his campaign website, I think that site misattributed that quote.

    This is what I find on his campaign website for that issue at least.
    Yep, his campaign needs to correct this mistake.

  24. #23

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    "Legal immigration" is exactly the problem, these people aren't hiking over deserts and mountains in Arizona; they are being let in thru these work programs. So Rand wants more H-1Bs?

    "Legal immigration" is amnesty

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkob View Post
    "Legal immigration" is exactly the problem, these people aren't hiking over deserts and mountains in Arizona; they are being let in thru these work programs. So Rand wants more H-1Bs?

    "Legal immigration" is amnesty
    I agree. I want to be sure what I am reading is correct. I find articles where it says Rand wants to increase H-1B but as they say is "vague" on numbers. I can find no direct quote.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    "National ID card for all citizens protects national security".

    It says from his campaign website, I think that site misattributed that quote.

    This is what I find on his campaign website for that issue at least.
    I need to find that legislation. I'm running into people that insist he's for voter ID.
    [edit, national ID card]

    nvrmd, found it
    http://www.paul.senate.gov/files/documents/1333.pdf
    Last edited by Origanalist; 08-16-2015 at 11:41 AM.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I need to find that legislation. I'm running into people that insist he's for voter ID.
    [edit, national ID card]
    Weird, HotAir went ape because they thought he was anti ID. Seems like Rand gets hate from all sides.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What crime did they commit?
    tresspassing

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Weird, HotAir went ape because they thought he was anti ID. Seems like Rand gets hate from all sides.
    Ya, I noticed that.

  30. #29

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    rand should pretty much mimic trumps stance on this. this is the issue where trump is getting all his traction. oppose trump on everything else but agree with him here. do that and his voters will be able to choose other candidates. right now trumps voters are the antiestablishment types. if trump disappears, they will go to rand, cruz or carson. we are dying in the polls because our voters have gone to trump. and its all because of this one issue. mimic trump on immigration, differentiate yourself on everything else. give the trump voters reason to come back to you

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