Correcting bad advice about marriage

[jmdrake]

I was over at my ex wife's house yesterday helping my sons with homework. They definitely needed my help and it simply wasn't conducive to do it at my house that time. When they were taking a break I overheard my ex give one son what I believe is the worst advice ever for a happy home. "Just find out what makes your wife happy and do it." Recipe for disaster! Number one what makes her happy might make him miserable. Number two he'll never do that perfectly. Number three women (and people in general) change their minds. Number four, once you've done what made her happy and makes you miserable and she's now changed her mind about even wanting that you can't blame her for the choice because she'll say "Well I told you that you didn't have to do that if you didn't want to."

So...when we were outside I pulled my sons aside and gave them this advice. Don't try to please a woman. Find out what it is that you want to do in life and either accomplish it before you get married or have a plan and be well on your way. Then find a woman that fits your plans and is willing to support you in them. In fact, I think that's the point of Proverbs 31.

[helmuth_hubener]

Good advice, Mr. Drake. Good advice.

So many men today mouth these cliches about how the wife is in charge (of the household, of the finances, of everything, and even of them), and how learning to say "Yes, dear" no matter what is the key to married life, and so many other related cliches. They're funny maybe (to someone) but they are deeply flawed, and I hope that far fewer are actually following this philosophy than who give it lip service. It's not going to work. Sacrificing yourself and your values for someone else and theirs is not something that works.

It's good advice for both sexes. Follow your dreams. Live your life alive. Be happy.

[Suzanimal]

You gave them great advice, jmdrake.

My dad used to sing this song to my brothers all the time. He would grin and wink at my mom when he started singing it - we thought it was so funny.




My mom is very attractive, btw.

[jmdrake]

You gave them great advice, jmdrake.

My dad used to sing this song to my brothers all the time. He would grin and wink at my mom when he started singing it - we thought it was so funny.

LOL. Actually Proverbs 31 ends with "Beauty will fade anyway." And the Hip Hop version of the same idea.



Lyrics:

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
A pretty woman makes her husband look small
And very often causes his downfall
As soon as he married her and then she starts
To do the things that will break his heart
But if you make an ugly woman your wife
A-you'll be happy for the rest of your life
An ug-a-ly woman cooks meals on time
And she'll always give you peace of mind
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
[Sax solo]
Don't let your friends say you have no taste
Go ahead and marry anyway
Though her face is ugly, her eyes don't match
Take it from me, she's a better catch
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
[Spoken:]
Say man!
Hey baby!
I saw your wife the other day!
Yeah?
Yeah, an' she's ug-leeee!
Yeah, she's ugly, but she sure can cook, baby!
Yeah, alright!
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

[euphemia]

This is why a man's way of finding a mate is not a good one. They marry the hottest girl who will say yes, and if he has money, multiply that dumb factor by 10.

Marry a woman who has the same goals and ethics as you, and who is intentional about her life, relationships, and sexuality. Make sure to have several dates to see if she blames PMS for being cranky. Is she honest and forthright? Does she make excuses for her character flaws, or does she accept correction?

Pay attention to what she says about past relationships of any kind. Does she attract fatally flawed friends and boyfriends? Why?

[jmdrake]

This is why a man's way of finding a mate is not a good one. They marry the hottest girl who will say yes, and if he has money, multiply that dumb factor by 10.

Marry a woman who has the same goals and ethics as you, and who is intentional about her life, relationships, and sexuality. Make sure to have several dates to see if she blames PMS for being cranky. Is she honest and forthright? Does she make excuses for her character flaws, or does she accept correction?

Pay attention to what she says about past relationships of any kind. Does she attract fatally flawed friends and boyfriends? Why?

Good advice! Especially about avoiding cranky women.

Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.

Proverbs 27:15 A continual dropping in a very rainy day and a contentious woman are alike.

I need to remember to tell my sons in our next talk that if the women they date ever start an argument before they're even married, drop her like a hot potato and lose her phone number. This isn't the time to even think about "Well maybe I helped start the argument" or "Maybe I did something wrong." Nope. Drop her. And I would give the same argument to my daughter if I had one. If y'all are arguing while you are merely dating and still trying to impress each other, what's going to happen when you are locked into a marriage?

[fisharmor]

I'd add these:

1) There is no such thing as a soulmate. The whole concept is bull$#@!. Relationships of any kind require work, and marriages require the most work.

2) Find a woman who wants to be a wife, and be her husband. If she's working on being your wife, and you're not working on being her husband, she's going to be unhappy. If you're working on being her husband and she's not working on being your wife, you're going to be unhappy.

3) If either one has the only say in how things are going to work, then that is an unhealthy marriage. I always say my wife is the boss.... and I am the owner.
I disappear for 10 hours a day and leave the boss in charge. What she says is law during that time.
What she says when I'm there is law, too. But it is always subject to my review.
I will never call out the boss on the production floor because this will undermine her authority with the workers.
Likewise, I expect that she will never contradict what I say to the workers in front of them.
I expect to consult her a lot when making decisions on how the business will move forward, and I expect to change my mind based on her feedback.
I also expect her to suggest changes to the business when she's not sure whether I'd just be ok with her doing it herself.

[fisharmor]

I need to remember to tell my sons in our next talk that if the women they date ever start an argument before they're even married, drop her like a hot potato and lose her phone number. This isn't the time to even think about "Well maybe I helped start the argument" or "Maybe I did something wrong." Nope. Drop her. And I would give the same argument to my daughter if I had one. If y'all are arguing while you are merely dating and still trying to impress each other, what's going to happen when you are locked into a marriage?

There's arguing, and there's bickering.
If two people have different opinions and are making reasoned arguments why the other should adopt the other position, that is perfectly healthy and a requirement for a good marriage.
If they're obstinate and refuse to work with the other party, then yeah, drop her.

[Eagles' Wings]

Perhaps the comment was a sideways comment at you, JM.

Sometimes people do that because they don't feel heard being straight forward. It is common for men and women. We all do it.

Hopefully the kids can enjoy their youth, and not worry about finding a healthy mate at this point in their lives.

Your example of respect toward their mother will give them a clue as to how to treat women. Even if she is abusive and unkind to you, they do not have to witness your angst about it. That is for private discussion with friends and professionals if needed.

[Eagles' Wings]

I'd add these:

1) There is no such thing as a soulmate. The whole concept is bull$#@!. Relationships of any kind require work, and marriages require the most work.

2) Find a woman who wants to be a wife, and be her husband. If she's working on being your wife, and you're not working on being her husband, she's going to be unhappy. If you're working on being her husband and she's not working on being your wife, you're going to be unhappy.

3) If either one has the only say in how things are going to work, then that is an unhealthy marriage. I always say my wife is the boss.... and I am the owner.
I disappear for 10 hours a day and leave the boss in charge. What she says is law during that time.
What she says when I'm there is law, too. But it is always subject to my review.
I will never call out the boss on the production floor because this will undermine her authority with the workers.
Likewise, I expect that she will never contradict what I say to the workers in front of them.
I expect to consult her a lot when making decisions on how the business will move forward, and I expect to change my mind based on her feedback.
I also expect her to suggest changes to the business when she's not sure whether I'd just be ok with her doing it herself.

Very well said, fisharmor. Love it!

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You can't make anybody happy. Your own happiness is a consequence of serving others. At least in my opinion.

[Terry1]

It helps to find someone who shares the same beliefs and passions, but that doesn't always work either. When one gets older, you don't want be out there looking for someone in these days and times when disease is rampant and it seems like people are just plain nutty as fruitcakes.

Me and my hub are both in agreement that if one of us gets pissed off--we just move to another part of the house until we cool off. We're both too dayam tired at the end of the day to fight like teenagers and start over again. It helps to have a fairly large home with a lot of rooms to hide out in. Everyone needs their space once in a while to just relax and chill.

I've created a room for myself that I can retreat to that feels like a vacation away from it all right in my own home. Couples who are organized and clean have a better shot at a good marriage too. No one likes to live in a hoard of crap. That's the reason I've seen a lot of marriages fail too. Their homes and lives are a mess.

It also helps for both the wife and the husband to agree on finances, which is another big reason that marriage fail. You gotta live within your budget and be clean and organized. Be respectful of each other and work together. Me and my hub have had a very happy 18 years together.

[helmuth_hubener]

I need to remember to tell my sons in our next talk that if the women they date ever start an argument before they're even married, drop her like a hot potato and lose her phone number.

Actually, I would say that it would be a good idea to intentionally try to start an argument, just to see what happens and how you both handle it. Arguing is probably going to happen over the years, and disagreement certainly is. Best to know in advance both what you disagree about and how you go about disagreeing.

So, I'd say the opposite: if you're dating and you haven't had an argument, try to start one (just a little bit; don't be mean).

[donnay]

I'd add these:

1) There is no such thing as a soulmate. The whole concept is bull$#@!. Relationships of any kind require work, and marriages require the most work.

2) Find a woman who wants to be a wife, and be her husband. If she's working on being your wife, and you're not working on being her husband, she's going to be unhappy. If you're working on being her husband and she's not working on being your wife, you're going to be unhappy.

3) If either one has the only say in how things are going to work, then that is an unhealthy marriage. I always say my wife is the boss.... and I am the owner.
I disappear for 10 hours a day and leave the boss in charge. What she says is law during that time.
What she says when I'm there is law, too. But it is always subject to my review.
I will never call out the boss on the production floor because this will undermine her authority with the workers.
Likewise, I expect that she will never contradict what I say to the workers in front of them.
I expect to consult her a lot when making decisions on how the business will move forward, and I expect to change my mind based on her feedback.
I also expect her to suggest changes to the business when she's not sure whether I'd just be ok with her doing it herself.

Very sage advice!

[jmdrake]

There's arguing, and there's bickering.
If two people have different opinions and are making reasoned arguments why the other should adopt the other position, that is perfectly healthy and a requirement for a good marriage.
If they're obstinate and refuse to work with the other party, then yeah, drop her.

People can discuss differences of opinion without arguing. If your fiance' is insisting that he/she must be right and you must be wrong, even if it's being done in a "nice" way, that's a very bad sign. Remember. This is the person that's trying to impress you. It only gets worse after marriage. No sex before marriage and no arguing before marriage. I've dated women where we had strong differences of opinion but I wasn't made to feel bad about the difference. That's the difference between debate and discussion and arguing.

[donnay]

Perhaps the comment was a sideways comment at you, JM.

Sometimes people do that because they don't feel heard being straight forward. It is common for men and women. We all do it.

Hopefully the kids can enjoy their youth, and not worry about finding a healthy mate at this point in their lives.

Your example of respect toward their mother will give them a clue as to how to treat women. Even if she is abusive and unkind to you, they do not have to witness your angst about it. That is for private discussion with friends and professionals if needed.

Great points.

[jmdrake]

Actually, I would say that it would be a good idea to intentionally try to start an argument, just to see what happens and how you both handle it. Arguing is probably going to happen over the years, and disagreement certainly is. Best to know in advance both what you disagree about and how you go about disagreeing.

So, I'd say the opposite: if you're dating and you haven't had an argument, try to start one (just a little bit; don't be mean).

If the person you are dating is contentious then you won't have to start an argument. The arguments will just happen. There are always opportunities for arguments anyway especially as you get closer to your wedding date. Wedding lists can cause arguments. What to put on the bridal registry can cause arguments. Discussions about finances can cause arguments. Future in-laws can cause arguments. Hell, once during our engagement we got into an argument after my sister-in-law complained to my fiance' about how my brother was handling their finances. I could see the problems and realized we were arguing too much and asked that we postponed the wedding and I got an "Well I'm marrying somebody on that date" response. Trust me. The arguments will find you.

[jmdrake]

I'd add these:

1) There is no such thing as a soulmate. The whole concept is bull$#@!. Relationships of any kind require work, and marriages require the most work.

2) Find a woman who wants to be a wife, and be her husband. If she's working on being your wife, and you're not working on being her husband, she's going to be unhappy. If you're working on being her husband and she's not working on being your wife, you're going to be unhappy.

3) If either one has the only say in how things are going to work, then that is an unhealthy marriage. I always say my wife is the boss.... and I am the owner.
I disappear for 10 hours a day and leave the boss in charge. What she says is law during that time.
What she says when I'm there is law, too. But it is always subject to my review.
I will never call out the boss on the production floor because this will undermine her authority with the workers.
Likewise, I expect that she will never contradict what I say to the workers in front of them.
I expect to consult her a lot when making decisions on how the business will move forward, and I expect to change my mind based on her feedback.
I also expect her to suggest changes to the business when she's not sure whether I'd just be ok with her doing it herself.

I don't discount the possibility of soul mates. Isaac seemed to have found one in Rebekah. Abraham tasked his servant to find Isaac a wife. Isaac's servant prayed for a sign to see that the woman was kind. God answered the prayer. When Isaac met her it was love at first sight. (The Bible doesn't say this, but I bet Isaac was praying "Don't let her be ugly.") Sure the marriage still required work. Rebekah about ruined it by getting the big head when God gave her a prophecy about the younger serving the older. (Something else to watch out for. Just because God tells a woman something doesn't give her permission to undermine her husband based on it.) Nobody is perfect. But if you don't do good "soul searching" of yourself and others before getting married you'll likely have to work much harder.

Glad you and your wife are working well together. That's kind of what I was getting at. Find a woman that wants to be helpful in whatever it is that you already have set your mind to doing. Don't get married without a plan and don't marry someone antagonistic to your plan. If you want to be a dairy farmer, marrying someone who wants to live in Washington DC might not be a good idea. (Then again with all of the BS in DC......)

I will at this to my list. "Don't think you can ever make anyone else happy. Be happy yourself and find someone else who is already happy."

[jmdrake]

It helps to find someone who shares the same beliefs and passions, but that doesn't always work either. When one gets older, you don't want be out there looking for someone in these days and times when disease is rampant and it seems like people are just plain nutty as fruitcakes.

Me and my hub are both in agreement that if one of us gets pissed off--we just move to another part of the house until we cool off. We're both too dayam tired at the end of the day to fight like teenagers and start over again. It helps to have a fairly large home with a lot of rooms to hide out in. Everyone needs their space once in a while to just relax and chill.

I've created a room for myself that I can retreat to that feels like a vacation away from it all right in my own home. Couples who are organized and clean have a better shot at a good marriage too. No one likes to live in a hoard of crap. That's the reason I've seen a lot of marriages fail too. Their homes and lives are a mess.

It also helps for both the wife and the husband to agree on finances, which is another big reason that marriage fail. You gotta live within your budget and be clean and organized. Be respectful of each other and work together. Me and my hub have had a very happy 18 years together.

Congrats on your 18 years! I've seen messy couples make a good go of it and clean couples make a good go of it. Couples where one is messy and one is clean are headed for trouble.

[moostraks]

Will be 15 years of marriage for us this September and it seems like just days have passed. He is definitely my better half. We never fight each other, maybe had half a dozen or so arguments the first few years because of misinterpretations of what the other person was wanting. I married my best friend and neither of us counts the costs of what we put in to the relationship to judge whether the other person is measuring up to a standard of input and that made all the difference. I would say he is my soulmate but that is because we complete each other. He is as much my flesh and blood as my own children. Just like some find a career that is never work because they are living their calling, I don't call my marriage work. You certainly have to be equally yoked or you just go in circles.

[jmdrake]

I forgot the most important piece of advice! Don't be fake. Your future spouse should know the worst about you. (Don't talk about anything illegal though because that might not be privileged testimony even if you are engaged.) Tell him/her the worst of what you've done the worst of what you do and the worst of what you might want to do. If he/she doesn't still love you then he/she is not worthy of you. Jesus loves us warts and all. This is true even if you are seeking to change these aspects of your life. If you are seeking to change that because that's what you want to do and not because you're trying to impress someone else then let that be known. Your future spouse can be supportive. If you really don't want to change this aspect then let that be known as well. Your future spouse deserves the right to decide if that is something he/she can live with.

[Jamesiv1]

I like these two:

1. A man's home is his castle
2. If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy

I agree with fisharmor that the soulmate stuff is bull$#@!. I would also add "true love" to the bull$#@! list. Hollywood, pulp fiction and pop music bull$#@!.

I like the idea of multiple wives - a man should be able to marry as many women as he can support.

I also like the idea of arranged marriages for anyone under 30. Teens and 20-somethings don't know $#@! from shinola about things that matter (like finding a mate). Elders know from experience what marriage is and isn't. Western cultures don't have near the extended family relationships that other cultures have, however.

Cultures that have arranged marriages also are much less condemning about men having extra-marital relationships. As long as it does not cause the wife and her family to lose face then it's not encouraged, but it's not condemned either. Kind of like the way Japan does it - geisha girls and such.

Ideally, 'Do not commit adultery'. But if you're going to do it, do not cause her or her family to lose respect (lose face).

Polygamous marriages also help minimize extra-marital sex.

[Terry1]

Congrats on your 18 years! I've seen messy couples make a good go of it and clean couples make a good go of it. Couples where one is messy and one is clean are headed for trouble.

This is true. My SIL is a pig--seriously and that's not the way she was raised. My MIL was a very neat and organized person and couldn't understand why her daughter lived that way. She's not bad looking, but she can't hold on to a guy because everything she touches turns into a mess. As soon as they see how she lives--they're gone!

Both me and my husband like to be organized and clean. Plus I'm old fashioned in a sense that I like to lay his clothes out and have a meal ready for him before and after his work. A lot of women won't do that stuff for their husbands nowadays either or they just can't because they both work. In a case like that, they just have to work together to help each other out.

When my hub was laid off years ago--the only way we survived and kept our home is because I dug in and took on the burden of paying all of the bills when he couldn't and likewise, when I got sick and landed in the hospital and couldn't work for a couple years--he dug in and paid everything I couldn't help out with. You gotta support each other. Too often today when young couples hit hard times they just bail out on each other instead of finding ways to get through the hard times.

Years ago when we hit those hard times--I just dug my feet in and did everything I could do to bring revenue into the home and it paid off. Young couples nowadays want everything right away forgetting how long it took Mom and Dad to get everything they've got.

Money and financial irresponsibility is a lot of the reason marriages fail today too. These young couples want brand new expensive cars and homes as soon as they're married because this is what they were used to having growing up. It's too easy to get credit today instead of teaching the kids to save their money and live on a budget till they can pay cash for it.

[helmuth_hubener]

If the person you are dating is contentious then you won't have to start an argument. The arguments will just happen.

And that would of course be A Bad Sign.

Wedding lists can cause arguments. What to put on the bridal registry can cause arguments. Discussions about finances can cause arguments. Future in-laws can cause arguments.

Yes, and it's good to have as many opportunities like this as possible before you're married.

I guess maybe I'm saying:

Qualification Level 1: Be friendly and non-contentious and get along wonderfully and blissfully. That's a given. You need that, at minimum, and I think that's what you're getting at with your advice. Then, if that bar is cleared, you go on to....

Qualification Level 2: Handle disagreements and problems well together. Exposing your relationship to difficult, challenging, stressful situations is one way to acquire the information of how well this qualification is met. Planning and executing a large, deadlined project together would be one good way, and that's why it seems like an excellent idea to handle the wedding yourself and not hand it over to parents nor consultants. If even then you are not having arguments, that's probably a good sign, but that's where my somewhat strange advice comes in that you may want to have at bare minimum one trial argument just to test the waters. If even then neither of you can really get riled up and into it, that probably is a Very Good Sign.

[jmdrake]

This is true. My SIL is a pig--seriously and that's not the way she was raised. My MIL was a very neat and organized person and couldn't understand why her daughter lived that way. She's not bad looking, but she can't hold on to a guy because everything she touches turns into a mess. As soon as they see how she lives--they're gone!

Both me and my husband like to be organized and clean. Plus I'm old fashioned in a sense that I like to lay his clothes out and have a meal ready for him before and after his work. A lot of women won't do that stuff for their husbands nowadays either or they just can't because they both work. In a case like that, they just have to work together to help each other out.

When my hub was laid off years ago--the only way we survived and kept our home is because I dug in and took on the burden of paying all of the bills when he couldn't and likewise, when I got sick and landed in the hospital and couldn't work for a couple years--he dug in and paid everything I couldn't help out with. You gotta support each other. Too often today when young couples hit hard times they just bail out on each other instead of finding ways to get through the hard times.

Years ago when we hit those hard times--I just dug my feet in and did everything I could do to bring revenue into the home and it paid off. Young couples nowadays want everything right away forgetting how long it took Mom and Dad to get everything they've got.

Money and financial irresponsibility is a lot of the reason marriages fail today too. These young couples want brand new expensive cars and homes as soon as they're married because this is what they were used to having growing up. It's too easy to get credit today instead of teaching the kids to save their money and live on a budget till they can pay cash for it.

I'll be honest. I'm a pig. I was before I got married. I did a decent job while married. And I'm a pig again. I can and should do better. But any woman who might have an interest in me needs to know my oinkish tendencies.

[jmdrake]

And that would of course be A Bad Sign.

Yes, and it's good to have as many opportunities like this as possible before you're married.

I guess maybe I'm saying:

Qualification Level 1: Be friendly and non-contentious and get along wonderfully and blissfully. That's a given. You need that, at minimum, and I think that's what you're getting at with your advice. Then, if that bar is cleared, you go on to....

Qualification Level 2: Handle disagreements and problems well together. Exposing your relationship to difficult, challenging, stressful situations is one way to acquire the information of how well this qualification is met. Planning and executing a large, deadlined project together would be one good way, and that's why it seems like an excellent idea to handle the wedding yourself and not hand it over to parents nor consultants. If even then you are not having arguments, that's probably a good sign, but that's where my somewhat strange advice comes in that you may want to have at bare minimum one trial argument just to test the waters. If even then neither of you can really get riled up and into it, that probably is a Very Good Sign.

I agree. And that's why you tell your potential spouse all the worst stuff about yourself. If that isn't argument fodder to her then you're golden. I guess what I'm against is a guy being a dick just so he can see what his girl will do. The problem is I would give the "avoid contentious people" advice to women to. So such a guy might X himself out of a good relationship. If she follows my advice she would lose his number too. I'm not saying I've never been a dick. In HS there was this girl I really liked. We were just friends but I was hoping for more. One day she thought I said the "S" word. I hadn't but that's what she thought. She said "Did you say S?" I said "no." She said "Good." Just because I didn't want to feel like I couldn't say what I wanted I said "S." She quit talking to me. What I should have said was "I didn't say that and that isn't my habit but it bothers me that you'd make an issue of it. Don't you care more about our friendship than some stupid word?" Ah...the things I wish I knew 30+ years ago.

[jmdrake]

Perhaps the comment was a sideways comment at you, JM.

Sometimes people do that because they don't feel heard being straight forward. It is common for men and women. We all do it.

Hopefully the kids can enjoy their youth, and not worry about finding a healthy mate at this point in their lives.

Your example of respect toward their mother will give them a clue as to how to treat women. Even if she is abusive and unkind to you, they do not have to witness your angst about it. That is for private discussion with friends and professionals if needed.

I don't think it was a sideways comment. For one thing I would have given them the same advice not to long ago. It's common to hear stuff like this in church these days. Most churches are filled with women. A pastor who preached the wrong sermon might not last too long.

I will say this. I did a lot of things wrong in the marriage. In fact I might very well have been the worse spouse. I own that. I didn't know how to be a man when I got married and she didn't know how to treat one. Neither one of us were ready to get married despite the fact that we were both well past the average marrying age. It took me decades to realize that.

[helmuth_hubener]

I guess what I'm against is a guy being a dick just so he can see what his girl will do.

Yeah, being a jerk is bad. I couldn't really bring myself to do it, even though it did sound like a good idea on paper. Well, to some people I can. But not to her.

[jmdrake]

Yeah, being a jerk is bad. I couldn't really bring myself to do it, even though it did sound like a good idea on paper. Well, to some people I can. But not to her.

LOL. Here's another idea. Go on vacation with her family and get her to go on vacation with yours. One of her potential in-laws is bound to be a dick to her and if she doesn't argue with him/her about it she's bound to argue with you. Experiment done!

[Terry1]

I'll be honest. I'm a pig. I was before I got married. I did a decent job while married. And I'm a pig again. I can and should do better. But any woman who might have an interest in me needs to know my oinkish tendencies.

LMAO! I'll be honest here--my hub wasn't always neat and organized. I sort of impressed him with my housekeeping skills and he's hooked now. When I met him, his clothes were always wrinkled and mismatched--LOL He's actually very happy now that I took charge of that situation. He's now a very neat and tidy guy with creases and color coordinated. LOL