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Thread: Applying the NAP to a real life situation

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    You don't EVER want to engage another in such combat because $#@! will come out of nowhere that you would never expect and your life can turn to poo in well under one second.
    Yes. First rule is to find your way clear of an engagement. If there's no way out, buckle up.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Guys, "by the NAP", every other person on that train should pull their piece and make Swiss cheese out of the clear and obvious threat.

    We're obviously not in a NAP world, so trying to apply the principle to a situation like this is going to yield erroneous answers.

    The way modern cities are set up, it's impossible to live by NAP and assure your own security. You need to be in too close with too many other people, and that nearness can be leveraged into setting up lose-lose situations for any victim.

    Move out of the cities if you want to live by NAP. Otherwise you're going to have to live by prayer.
    There is no difference in self-defense between a NAP and conventional society, outside specific carry laws.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Yea, the man is such a pussy because he lost a fight where he was ambushed by a bunch of teenagers, only a pussy would lose that fight. We all know that if it had happened to us, we would have fought them off, the sucker punch? we would have ducked it and returned a round house.
    What a complete mischaracterization of what I typed.

    The guy is a pussy for not fighting back, winning or losing doesn't matter not fighting back does.

    Some old people and some women don't fight back but for a male in the prime of his life to cover up and cower is shameful.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    ..................... but for a male in the prime of his life to cover up and cower is shameful.
    Sadly many have been taught that effete is the new manly.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    The NAP is very clear in this situation. After the first aggresor struck the victim, the white guy should have stood up and knocked out the punk in the red shirt.
    I tend to the position that when the thugs started their surround maneuver THAT was aggression and could properly be met with lethal force.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by paleocon1 View Post
    I tend to the position that when the thugs started their surround maneuver THAT was aggression and could properly be met with lethal force.
    So you assessed that said thugs have aggressed upon you before you attacked? that is NAP. My only problem with your solution is to wonder if there are no middle grounds between not doing anything and lethal deadly force.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    What a complete mischaracterization of what I typed.

    The guy is a pussy for not fighting back, winning or losing doesn't matter not fighting back does.

    Some old people and some women don't fight back but for a male in the prime of his life to cover up and cower is shameful.
    He probably had a different goal that you, I bet his goal was to minimize dmg to face, neck and vital organs and I think he did quite well. The altercation lasted a few seconds and he guessed right that the hoodlums was not there to maul him. He came out unfazed in a 3 vs 1 fight. That is not what I consider being a pussy.

    Also the 3 men were in their prime not him. He looked middle age, a bit out of shape and out of his elements. He did just fine if you asked me. Watch a video of those lion vs a horde of hyena fights and you will see the same sort of defense at play. The lions put its tail between its legs and crouches to the ground to covered his soft belly. He does this while looking for an escape route. This poor man did the human version of that and you call him a pussy?

    That is what I have a problem with. this is real life not the $#@!ing movies where 1 man can take out a group of people attacking one at a time

  10. #38
    So is this actually a question about the NAP's twin, the JAP(Justified Aggression Principle)?
    Last edited by Sam I am; 03-31-2015 at 03:31 PM.
    If you wanted some sort of Ideological purity, you'll get none of that from me.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I am View Post
    So is this actually a question about the NAP's Twin, the JAP(Justified Aggression principle)?

    Japs used to be aggressive. Not today, though.
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    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
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    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




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  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    He probably had a different goal that you, I bet his goal was to minimize dmg to face, neck and vital organs and I think he did quite well. The altercation lasted a few seconds and he guessed right that the hoodlums was not there to maul him. He came out unfazed in a 3 vs 1 fight. That is not what I consider being a pussy.

    Also the 3 men were in their prime not him. He looked middle age, a bit out of shape and out of his elements. He did just fine if you asked me. Watch a video of those lion vs a horde of hyena fights and you will see the same sort of defense at play. The lions put its tail between its legs and crouches to the ground to covered his soft belly. He does this while looking for an escape route. This poor man did the human version of that and you call him a pussy?

    That is what I have a problem with. this is real life not the $#@!ing movies where 1 man can take out a group of people attacking one at a time
    Sure it's real life. Head over to Youtube and type in "old man beats up young punks." Those videos are "not the $#@!ing movies." They are real (old) men not putting up with bull$#@!. But since you mentioned movies and lions see what you can take away from this when you compare it to some of those movies.



    The older man didn't want trouble. The young punks pushed. And the old man ended up beating their ass. THAT's called "not being a pussy." I won't let the government enforcers step on my neck. And they have a helluva lot more weight. I'd be damned if I would let some young punks.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    $#@! the NAP.......

    Here's the video from yesterday;

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...etrolink-train
    A three on one fight. Sure he had a right to "self defense." His not fighting back likely nothing to do with NAP or self defense laws or anything other than the fact that he didn't have a gun and there were three of them.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Sure it's real life. Head over to Youtube and type in "old man beats up young punks." Those videos are "not the $#@!ing movies." They are real (old) men not putting up with bull$#@!. But since you mentioned movies and lions see what you can take away from this when you compare it to some of those movies.



    The older man didn't want trouble. The young punks pushed. And the old man ended up beating their ass. THAT's called "not being a pussy." I won't let the government enforcers step on my neck. And they have a helluva lot more weight. I'd be damned if I would let some young punks.
    Real life.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  16. #43
    [QUOTE=jmdrake;5826811]Real life.

    Do you really want to start a dueling videos thread?

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Real life.

    Do you really want to start a dueling videos thread?
    /grabs popcorn
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
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  18. #45
    [QUOTE=phill4paul;5826827]
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Real life.

    Do you really want to start a dueling videos thread?


    Anytime you get into a fight with strangers you have no idea what happens next. You might get lucky and the three punks you seek to take out can't fight at all. Or....maybe they can fight just enough to F you up. You can risk whatever you want. But I wouldn't risk anything based on someone else's YouTube fight. Anyway, post away. I love good street fight videos especially when the underdog wins.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  19. #46
    [QUOTE=jmdrake;5826839]
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post



    Anytime you get into a fight with strangers you have no idea what happens next. You might get lucky and the three punks you seek to take out can't fight at all. Or....maybe they can fight just enough to F you up. You can risk whatever you want. But I wouldn't risk anything based on someone else's YouTube fight. Anyway, post away. I love good street fight videos especially when the underdog wins.
    I don't dispute that anytime you get into a fight with strangers you have no idea what happens next. What I risk is that the punks might go away emboldened if I choose not to stand my ground and pick on someone less capable. Possibly causing far worse harm. I'm not gonna take that risk.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Real life.

    This guy made a few big mistakes. First he let his emotions get the best of him. Second, he took his opponents for granted. He thought he was the cock of the walk. Third, he got jumped by the second guy in.

    Billy Badass in the video there thought because he "knew" how to fight that he could handle a couple of punks. I hope he didn't end up dead because of it, he took a couple of solid kicks to the skull.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    There is no difference in self-defense between a NAP and conventional society, outside specific carry laws.
    My point was that once an area becomes crowded enough, there's no effective way to insure self-defense, as people by necessity will be close enough to hit you out of nowhere before you can act, and it's way too easy to get cornered, as this incident highlighted in this thread demonstrates. As soon as population density is high enough that total strangers can get close enough to sucker punch you, that kind of sudden, no-warning ambush attack has no defense.



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  23. #49
    Slightly off topic:

    Video has an Age Restriction. Are you guys that are watching this video using a Youtube Acct to "verify your age", or are you just not watching the video, or are you employing other tactics to bypass the "Age Verification Check" required by Google?
    1776 > 1984

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    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I don't dispute that anytime you get into a fight with strangers you have no idea what happens next. What I risk is that the punks might go away emboldened if I choose not to stand my ground and pick on someone less capable. Possibly causing far worse harm. I'm not gonna take that risk.
    I can understand that. I can also understand someone weighing the risk and deciding the risk of losing such a fight not worth it. If you were to take out three punks like that my hat would go off to you.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    This guy made a few big mistakes. First he let his emotions get the best of him. Second, he took his opponents for granted. He thought he was the cock of the walk. Third, he got jumped by the second guy in.

    Billy Badass in the video there thought because he "knew" how to fight that he could handle a couple of punks. I hope he didn't end up dead because of it, he took a couple of solid kicks to the skull.
    He survived the fight.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Slightly off topic:

    Video has an Age Restriction. Are you guys that are watching this video using a Youtube Acct to "verify your age", or are you just not watching the video, or are you employing other tactics to bypass the "Age Verification Check" required by Google?
    hI didn't realize it was age restricted. I was logged into gmail. I have several throwaway ones.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    no-warning ambush attack has no defense.
    I don't think this is really an example of no-warning, though. Perhaps there was no explicit declaration of intention, but I think there were probably an ample amount of red flags leading up to the physical violence. Evidently there were enough to prompt a man in the back of the train car to begin recording the event, in fact.

    Sure, situations may arise where initiations of violence are almost entirely random, and totally without warning, and unavoidable. But I suspect, relatively speaking, these are a vast minority. Most physical violence tends to be an escalation from some other contentious situation.
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Sure it's real life. Head over to Youtube and type in "old man beats up young punks." Those videos are "not the $#@!ing movies." They are real (old) men not putting up with bull$#@!. But since you mentioned movies and lions see what you can take away from this when you compare it to some of those movies.




    The older man didn't want trouble. The young punks pushed. And the old man ended up beating their ass. THAT's called "not being a pussy." I won't let the government enforcers step on my neck. And they have a helluva lot more weight. I'd be damned if I would let some young punks.
    Yea, I went to youtube and I saw a ton of videos of old man in bus beating retarded middle aged man, and a few other old man beat young guy in sparing boxing match. What does it say that I found more unique videos of "Man hit by lightning caught on video" than "old man beats young man"?

    The scenario in the OP is 3 fit, young, agile, street fighter type vs lone middle aged, slightly out of shape man. In one case, you only need to land 1 lucky punch on one person, in the OP scenario, you basically have to land 3 punches. There is really no point in fighting back, add in the element of surprise and I don't see how he achieves anything from trying to fight back.

    But you countered my post about real life being different from hollywood films by posting a video of the movie "second hand lions". Not saying that its impossible to knock them all out like the old man in the bus did but the odds are not in his favor.

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