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Thread: Countermand Amendment-Article V proposal that reduces need for Article V but same authority

  1. #1

    Countermand Amendment-Article V proposal that reduces need for Article V but same authority

    The Countermand Amendment makes a permanent method for states to rid themselves of federal lawmaking that creates problems for them. When 60% of the states support it, the specific federal law is removed.

    Substantial accountability is created because delegates are limited to what state legislates designate as the Countermand issue. This is a table that shows the features of the Countermand Amendment compared to other Article V proposals.



    The citizens initiative site.

    https://www.countermands.us



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  3. #2

    Power Point Presentation Script For The Countermand Amendment

    This a brief review of HOW the countermand amendment offers all of the advantages seen in the table comparing it to other Article V proposals. This is about 1/3 of the review.

    • COUNTERMAND AMENDMENT 
The Missing Piece in the Article V Puzzle
*
*
Slide 1
    
Introduction
James Madison – The Powers Designation by the Constitution
*
James Madison, Jr. (March 16, 1751 – June 28, 1836) was an American statesman, political theorist and the fourth President of the United States (1809–1817).*
*
He is hailed as the "Father of the Constitution" for being instrumental in the drafting of the United States Constitution and as the key champion and author of the United States Bill of Rights. *He served as a politician much of his adult life.
*
"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former [federal powers]

    Slide 2
    State Legislatures Created the Federal Government
*

    • State Legislatures in 1787 created the Federal government.* The government did not create the Legislatures.* They reserved to themselves and future Legislatures, in Article V, the authority to amend the Constitution and modify the conduct of the Federal government in order to preserve States Rights
    • It is absurd to argue that State Legislatures must first get the Federal government’s permission (or any other permission), to amend the Constitution*
    • *

    
Slide 3
    
State Legislatures Created the Federal Government
*
    • When the Legislatures ratify any Amendment it is obligatory on the Courts, Congress, Executive Branch, Agencies and financial institutions (including the Federal Reserve) to obey its provisions
    • Legislatures are the final arbiters in all Constitutional matters
    • State Legislatures can restore our Constitutional Republic safely with the Single Issue Countermand Amendment which includes:*
    • *
    • Pre-approved Application by Legislatures on Congress
    • Pre-approved Countermand Amendment text by Legislatures
    • Pre-approved Delegate Resolution to bind delegates
    • *
    
Slide 4
    
Citizen Initiatives, Article V Overview
*
    • Citizen Initiatives and its team have been the leading authority on the Article V Amendment Process, either through Congress or Conventions, for 40 years
    • *
    • Citizen Initiatives’ mission - help State Legislatures preserve and safely apply their sovereign authority, under Article V, against encroachments by:*
    • *
    • Congress or Supreme Court
    • Executive or non-government mandates
    • Regulatory Agencies or Delegates sent to a Convention
    • Under Article V, Congress is the facilitator of the Amendment process and provides a manageable transition from Applications to Ratification*
    • *

    Slide 5
    
Citizen Initiatives, Article V Overview
*
    • When Congress proposes Amendments to the States, they do so as the deliberative body that writes and pre-approves the Amendment before it is sent to the States.* In the same way, State Legislatures are the deliberative body and pre-approve proposed Amendments before the Convention convenes**
    • State Legislatures, under Article V, have sovereign deliberative authority over Congress and the Supreme Court which assures that their collective will is obeyed by all Branches of the Federal government**
    • State Legislatures (having met their Constitutional obligations) can convene a Convention themselves if Congress causes unwarranted delays*
    • *
    
Slide 6
    
Citizen Initiatives, Article V Overview
*
    • State Legislatures (having met their Constitutional obligations) can convene a Convention themselves if Congress causes unwarranted delays*
    • State Legislatures can safely amend the Constitution with “Single Issue” Amendment Conventions, but they cannot arbitrarily rewrite the Constitution through delegates at a Convention
    • Legislatures, as the deliberative body, pre-approve the text of all proposed Amendments as well as Delegate Resolutions
    • *
    
Slide 7
    
State Legislatures Final Arbiters
*
    • State Legislatures are the final arbiters in all Constitutional matters through to Ratification
    • With the Single Issue Countermand Amendment, Legislatures can address egregious wrongs suffered by their citizens:
    • *
    • Safely
    • Quickly
    • Successfully
    • *
*

    Slide 8
    • *
    • National Strategy Committee
*
    • National Strategy Committee
    • *
    • Identify, select and Countermand laws and rulings that are burdensome to the States
    • Composed of State legislators and citizens from each State
    • Includes a Steering Committee
    • Citizen Initiatives facilitates decisions of the National Strategy Committee in the 50 State Legislatures
    • *
    • Avoids likely law suites against State Legislatures claiming violations of Article I, 10 which prohibits Interstate Compacts with the permission of Congress
    • *
    
Slide 9
    
What Can States Countermand?
*
    • States can Countermand and rescind laws and regulations that infringe on Constitutional Rights:
    • *
    • Enumerated Rights
    • Un-enumerated Rights in the 9th and 10th Amendments
    • Federal control of State land
    • Deficits*
    • Debt
    • Taxation
    • Federal Reserve policies (non government mandates)
    • Healthcare*
    • Energy
    • Mining*
    • Local education
    • Social issues, and more*
    • *
    
Slide 10 and 11
    
Article V Proposing Amendments 
*
    • Article V does not allow the convening of a Constitutional (Open) Convention.
    • Article V allows the convening of Amendment Conventions to “Propose Amendments”
    • *
    • The purpose of Article V is to protect the supremacy and perpetuity of the Constitution and to protect our civil liberties and States Rights. This is the real genius of the Founders and 1787 State Legislatures
    • The simplicity of Article V was deliberate.* Future Legislatures would retain sovereign authority to decide how they should control the Amendment process

  4. #3
    Am I experiencing deja vu?

    Why, no. No, I'm not. I really have been here before. And this was already ripped to shreds, too.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Of-Free-Speech

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-to-perfection
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Am I experiencing deja vu?

    Why, no. No, I'm not. I really have been here before. And this was already ripped to shreds, too.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Of-Free-Speech

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-to-perfection
    I'm sorry your standing as a sincere American was shredded. I do not know what to say.

    However, since no one ever has been able to come up with how the framers intended the purpose of creating unity be served, so Americans could effectively alter or abolish, and free speech is the only conceivable way that unity could be enabled amongst the people so, as the framers expressly intended, it is very clear that the Purpose of free speech is, indeed, to enable the unity needed to alter or abolish government destructive to our unalienable rights.

    Of course this is the legalistic aspect of the same function under natural law or biology, where the root purpose of free speech is to assure information vital to survival is shared and understood.

    I'm also sorry you have picked the wrong thread to post your unreasonable, unsupported and unconstitutional position in. This thread is about an amendment proposed by the 'Citizens Initiatives" group, and their website is here.

    https://www.countermands.us/countermand-amendment.html

    Sincerity requires reason and accountability to be seen and recognized, and you, as well as others have neither.
    Last edited by Christopher A. Brown; 03-26-2015 at 05:11 PM.

  6. #5
    Squirrel!

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher A. Brown View Post
    However, since no one ever has been able to come up with how the framers intended the purpose of creating unity be served, so Americans could effectively alter or abolish
    What makes you think they intended to "create unity" to alter or abolish? They didn't have unity when they abolished British rule. The majority of colonial Boobus was just fine the way things were. And they were pretty clear about how to alter or abolish. I remember something about "the blood of patriots and tyrants." Nothing about using free speech to talk them into abdicating power.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Squirrel!
    Hah, not a zoo. it's a circus with clowns!

    I doubt you support American unity useful for creating constitutional government, but I have to try.

    Do you accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights?
    Last edited by Christopher A. Brown; 03-27-2015 at 11:30 PM.

  9. #8
    A quick recap:

    INsincere
    1. Anti Federalist
    2. Occam's Banana
    3. Danke

    Unaccountable
    1. acptulsa
    2. GunnyFreedom

    Sincere
    1. Chris Brown
    2. CPUd
    3. Danke



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  11. #9
    I've been seeing articles and commentary on this everywhere in the U.S. Political News today. Fox, MSNBC, Oprah, CNN, USA Today. This must be something really big!

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher A. Brown View Post
    Hah, not a zoo. it's a circus with clowns!

    I doubt you support American unity useful for creating constitutional government, but I have to try.

    [b]Do you accept that the ultimate purpose of free speech is to enable unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights?]/b]
    Chris, to be honest with you, I don't know if I even care anymore.

    You won't wake Boobus up with convoluted rhetoric, I know that.

    As someone noted to me in a private comment: stories of police blowing us away every day gets thrown in the no-see-um dungeon, and this stays.

    Do whatever you want.

    Think whatever you want.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    A quick recap:

    INsincere
    1. Anti Federalist
    2. Occam's Banana
    3. Danke

    Unaccountable
    1. acptulsa
    2. GunnyFreedom

    Sincere
    1. Chris Brown
    2. CPUd
    3. Danke
    Very good! But further revision is certainly needed. However, overt recognition of the obvious purpose of free speech has been stigmatized by covert manipulations. Perhaps only one of the sincere outright saw the obviousness of the purpose. You if I remember well.

    Meaning the list was only an example of how Americans could use constitutional intent to filter out infiltrators. In order for it to work the sincere cannot be controlled by social fears and instead be seeking to unconditionally support the restoration of constitutional government. Along with the stigma came loads of conditioning into the false society the infiltrators created.

    It's a full blown psyops that started with covert groups using their pretend agreement and shared style to condition pretty much everyone posting. So it is not just misleading at this point it is also a learned style of perceiving and reacting.

    However, no matter how much reaction is echoed through the group of sincere and insincere, none gets to be correct about the ultimate purpose of free speech and none gets to develop a functional plan of action.

    So eventually the sincere will realize the social exchange practiced with false zeal of correctness, is really empty and actually only garnering social approval from those misleading.

    Being played and misused to enable neglect tyrants use to steal what rights might be left eventfully gets old.
    Last edited by Christopher A. Brown; 03-28-2015 at 12:52 AM.

  14. #12

    2nd of 3 parts of powerpoint script for -$#@!ermand Amendment.

    This is more of the powerpoint presentation script. The countermand amendment is a quality tool for states that eliminates the repetitive aspects needed for states to protect their rights with nullification. Also congress has entered into treasonous treaties, GATT and NAFTA. Countermand can deal with that from what I've read.

    GATT and NAFTA are onerous, criminal abuses of government power that favor only corporations. Our environment has been trashed by this treaties and the usurpation of US law in US territory.


    Slide 12
Article V – Will Produce Constitutional Conventions (1)
    • Based on an erroneous claim that the transition from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution was a usurpation of power by the delegates over the Articles
    • This flawed argument has paralyzed State Legislators for 30+ years.
    • Hamilton and Madison asked the Congress to convene an “Open” Convention that would have the authority to amend the Articles without Congress defining the limits of the Convention
    *
    a. The Articles did not allow the Federal government to function effectively which almost caused us to lose the Revolutionary War and the peace afterward.*
    b. Unanimous consent by the States was the biggest problem under the Articles *
    c. All 13 States wanted to retain their sovereign authority
    d. There was no usurpation of power by the delegates and they did not force a Constitutional* (Open) Convention.
    *
    Slide 13
    Article V – Will Produce Constitutional Conventions (2)
    *
    • Legislature sovereignty trumps convention experience, historical experience, legal precedence, and Federal mandates
    • State Legislatures alone control the Amendment process from the Application to Ratification, not Congress, the Courts or Executive.
    • Legislatures don’t need permission from the Federal government to apply for and convene a Convention as long as the purpose is to “Propose Amendments”.
    • Multiple Single Issue Amendment Conventions are allowed in Article V
    • Article V delegates are not equivalent to the Founders. They are Ambassadors of their Legislatures, not free agents.
    *
    a. The Founders (Delegates) were commissioned to create a new Constitution and new government.*
    b. Article V delegates only vote on Amendments pre-approved by State Legislatures thus leaving sovereignty in State Legislatures, not delegates
    *
    Slide 14
    Article V Empowers State Legislatures*
    *
    • Article V “Single Issue” Countermand Amendment will empower Legislatures to:
    *
    a. Address egregious wrongs suffered by the people in their States
    b. Safely remedy those wrongs, one issue at a time, when the Federal government refuses to do so
    c. Give the States a powerful tool to peacefully counter Federal encroachment on their States Rights
    d. Create effective ways to use the Countermand Amendment among the 50 States
    *
    Slide 15
    Article V Protects State Sovereignty
    *
    • Article V does not allow the States, or delegates at a Convention, to write a new Constitution.*
    • In order for the States to re-write the Constitution they would have to:
    *
    a. Secede from the Union
    a. Legal precedence will not guarantee that an Article V Convention will be governed safely
    b. Convention experience will not guarantee that an Article V Convention will be governed safely
    c. Historical experience will not guarantee that an Article V Conventions will be governed safely
    d. Delegates sent to a Convention are not sovereign (no mention of “delegates” in Article V
    *
    • Only Delegate Resolutions, pre-approved by State Legislatures, will assure a safe and successful Countermand Amendment Convention.
    **
    Slide 16
    Thorniest Problem
    *
    • 13 State Legislatures created the Constitution and Federal Government
    • Their purpose was to serve and protect the States, not for the Federal government to rule over them
    • Their thorniest problem at the Convention was resolving how the States would retain their sovereign nation/State independence
    • The solution was in Article V.
    a. Under Articles of Confederation Constitutional Amendments required unanimous vote by the States*
    *
    I. Nearly cost us the Revolutionary War
    II. One State could hold the others hostage
    *
    a. Under Article V Ratification requires ¾ of States
    b. Sovereignty remained in future State Legislatures
    *
    Slide 17
    State Legislatures are the Deliberative Bodies
    *
    • Under Article V State Legislatures are the deliberative body, not delegates they send to a Convention
    • Delegates are Ambassadors of their State Legislatures. They are not free agents.
    • State Legislatures define their own and future generations of legislatures’ sovereign authority under Article V and must not abdicate it:
    • *
    a. to Congress
    b. to Courts
    c. to Executive Branch
    d. to Federal Reserve (non government mandates)
    e. to Regulatory Agencies
    f. to delegates sent to a Convention
    *
    Slide 18
    Article V Groups Diminishing State Legislature Sovereignty
    *
    • Some Article V groups are ignoring critical matters that will diminish, even cause, the abdication of State sovereignty
    • They will make it impossible for future generations of legislators to retain their sovereign authority and use Article V safely and quickly:
    *
    Slide 19
    State Sovereignty – Most Important Issue at Convention
    *
    • Constitutional Convention Rules proposed by Delegate George Wythe, VA:
    *
    a. Delegates adopted these opening rules before the Convention began deliberations:
    *
    I. Proceedings to be in secret, guards to be placed at doors
    II. Credentials required for entrance
    III. Each State allowed one vote
    1. 30 plus previous State Conventions did not decide this question for the Founders.* Politics did!
    2. It will have to be decided again and again at any Convention
    3. The Countermand Amendment Delegate Resolution requires that the Convention be organized as a Republic with each State having one vote. All decisions will be decided by a simple majority vote of State Delegations, not by the population of each State
    IV. Polls of delegate positions not recorded
    V. Delegates speak only twice
    VI. Delegates pay strict attention and address remarks to the President
    a. Call for a Convention - not part of Article V
    b. Create a new Constitution
    c. Form a new Government
    *
    • Under Article V States already have sovereign authority to amend the Constitution.
    • The Countermand Amendment empowers State Legislatures to affirm and secure their sovereign authority peacefully.


    Slide 20
    534 Politically Charged Delegates
    *
    • 534 politically charged delegates may be summoned by Congress and appointed by Legislatures to an Article V Convention. Issues they will have to decide:
    *
    a. If Article IV, Section 4 will rule when establishing the Rules of Order at the Convention.
    b. Will one vote per State be adopted at the Convention
    c. Will each delegate or each State have one vote
    d. Will majority rule at all roll calls
    e. Will delegates be bound to their Legislatures
    f. Will delegates be bound to introduce and vote for the pre-approved Countermand Amendment
    *
    • The Countermand Amendment “Delegate Resolution” will assure that the Convention is safe, quick (as little as one week) and successful according to the will of State Legislatures.
    • There cannot be a Constitutional Convention and with the Countermand Amendment there will be no mayhem at the Convention
    *
    Slide 21
    Countermand and Rescind
    *
    • The Countermand Amendment is a non partisan tool that all 50 States need to protect their States Rights, citizen and businesses
    • States can identify, select and rescind laws & regulatory rulings burdensome to their States
    *
    Slide 22
    Non-Partisan Countermand Amendment
    *
    • The Countermand Amendment protects States Rights by empowering States to disallow and rescind any onerous Federal or none government:
    *
    a. Law
    b. Executive Order
    c. Court decision or
    d. Regulatory Ruling
    *
    • That is burdensome to the States, their citizens, businesses and industries.
    • Once Countermanded by 30 States (60%) the law or ruling is immediately rescinded.



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