Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 208

Thread: There are false claims that Ron Paul is a "Racist"... Well I embrace that label...

  1. #1

    There are false claims that Ron Paul is a "Racist"... Well I embrace that label...


    Mod note: the original title was "Ron Paul is a racist and so am I..."



    All this talk about so-and-so being a "racist". So what? I believe everyone is a bit of a "racist" and those who are the biggest deniers are probably the worst offenders. Do you believe there are genetic differences between black, white and asian? You're a racist. Do you believe that certain cultures excel at certain things? You're a racist. Are you more attracted to red heads than brunettes? You're a racist.

    Quite frankly I'm sick of the B.S. conditioning. I'm embracing my "racism" and I'm going to stop listening when people say that using your personal observation common sense in distinguishing between people is somehow bad behavior. I believe that people are DIFFERENT. Cultures are DIFFERENT. Families are DIFFERENT. Some of these differences I like (therefore I'm attracted) and some of them I don't like (therefore I'm repelled). This does not mean that I HATE anyone. This does not mean that I want to HURT anyone. This does not mean I cannot do business with anyone. It's just my feelings and if you want to call me a "RACIST" go ahead. I embrace that term...
    Last edited by ChristianAnarchist; 03-11-2015 at 10:03 AM.
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Racism was once an excuse to think of people as collectives and the individual be damned. Anti-racism is a good thing--up until the point where it's used as an excuse to think of people as collectives and the individual be damned. Then it becomes the exact same disease it purports to cure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  4. #3
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    As long as you don't view yourself as superior so as to deny other ethnicities their core rights (not privileges), then you're not racist. The term 'racist' has been intentionally grown into something that isn't accurate.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    All this talk about so-and-so being a "racist". So what? I believe everyone is a bit of a "racist" and those who are the biggest deniers are probably the worst offenders. Do you believe there are genetic differences between black, white and asian? You're a racist. Do you believe that certain cultures excel at certain things? You're a racist. Are you more attracted to red heads than brunettes? You're a racist.

    Quite frankly I'm sick of the B.S. conditioning. I'm embracing my "racism" and I'm going to stop listening when people say that using your personal observation common sense in distinguishing between people is somehow bad behavior. I believe that people are DIFFERENT. Cultures are DIFFERENT. Families are DIFFERENT. Some of these differences I like (therefore I'm attracted) and some of them I don't like (therefore I'm repelled). This does not mean that I HATE anyone. This does not mean that I want to HURT anyone. This does not mean I cannot do business with anyone. It's just my feelings and if you want to call me a "RACIST" go ahead. I embrace that term...
    Noting differences in cultures is not racism because culture is not race. Noting differences among families is not racism because families are not race. Having an opinion or preference regarding hair color is not racism because hair color is not race. However, categorizing people based on perceived race (even though it is a scientifically suspect idea) and treating them differently based on your perception of their race IS racism and it is ignorant and hurtful.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  6. #5
    Everyone has a little bit of racism in them I'm sure, some more than others, but it is impossible to be racist if you are a Christian because Christians make a spiritual division between men (saved and unsaved), not a genetic division.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Everyone has a little bit of racism in them I'm sure, some more than others, but it is impossible to be racist if you are a Christian because Christians make a spiritual division between men (saved and unsaved), not a genetic division.

    Sounds like your argument is based upon the belief that it is not possible to make more than one sort of division at a time.
    "Sorry, fellows, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit."

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tod View Post
    Sounds like your argument is based upon the belief that it is not possible to make more than one sort of division at a time.
    For a Christian it is impossible.

  9. #8
    I will be so bold as to say that "science" is on my side in my observations that blacks, whites and asians are different. It's quite amazing to me that anyone could claim there is no difference. Today you are labeled a "racist" if you believe that there's a difference, so therefore I'm a "racist"... (and in the spirit of the title of this thread, so is Ron Paul)...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    I will be so bold as to say that "science" is on my side in my observations that blacks, whites and asians are different. It's quite amazing to me that anyone could claim there is no difference. Today you are labeled a "racist" if you believe that there's a difference, so therefore I'm a "racist"... (and in the spirit of the title of this thread, so is Ron Paul)...
    There is differentiation in the animal world due to environment. I speculate the same is for humans as well.

  12. #10
    I'm really on the opposite side of this. If I would have lived in times past, I would have definitely been an abolitionist.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    There is differentiation in the animal world due to environment. I speculate the same is for humans as well.
    You see, that is the evolutionary argument I reject. It is the basis for racism.

  14. #12
    Racism is an abstract concept. People define it differently.

    Usually though, accusations of racism come from people who get indignant when you refute their racial divisions and relations between those divisions, not on account of bigoted behavior.

    For instance if I say "whites don't oppress blacks" then I have a high probability of being called a racist. Not because that statement is offensive in itself, but because the accuser is offended that I don't concur with their divisions and vectors between those divisions.

    In essence, you risk being called racist in proportion to the degree to which you deny collectivist thinking in the racial context.
    Last edited by wizardwatson; 03-11-2015 at 12:36 PM.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    I will be so bold as to say that "science" is on my side in my observations that blacks, whites and asians are different. It's quite amazing to me that anyone could claim there is no difference.
    It is not that there is no difference among people. It is that there is no objectively definable line among groups of people that can be called "race". So, no, science really is not on your side. But maybe you can be a pioneer and come up with a set of measurable characteristics that define what you call race. Seems like a really useful project.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Everyone has a little bit of racism in them I'm sure, some more than others, but it is impossible to be racist if you are a Christian because Christians make a spiritual division between men (saved and unsaved), not a genetic division.
    This argument logically leads to the idea that nobody is Christian.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    You see, that is the evolutionary argument I reject. It is the basis for racism.
    Exactly, it's kind of illogical to be a racist if you believe that all humans descended from Noah and earlier Adam and Eve.
    Stop believing stupid things

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Liberty View Post
    This argument logically leads to the idea that nobody is Christian.
    Not if you understand that Christianity itself is against racism, and our racist thoughts are from sin.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Everyone has a little bit of racism in them I'm sure, some more than others, but it is impossible to be racist if you are a Christian because Christians make a spiritual division between men (saved and unsaved), not a genetic division.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Not if you understand that Christianity itself is against racism, and our racist thoughts are from sin.
    I agree that racist thoughts are sin. But you still can't have all three of these propositions at the same time:

    1. Its impossible for a Christian to be a racist

    2. Everyone is a racist

    3. Some people are Christians (implied)

    1 and 2 lead to a contradiction of #3.

    I would instead assert that it is possible (though certainly sinful) for a Christian to be a racist, though Christianity as a faith is anti-racism.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Liberty View Post
    I agree that racist thoughts are sin. But you still can't have all three of these propositions at the same time:

    1. Its impossible for a Christian to be a racist

    2. Everyone is a racist

    3. Some people are Christians (implied)

    1 and 2 lead to a contradiction of #3.

    I would instead assert that it is possible (though certainly sinful) for a Christian to be a racist, though Christianity as a faith is anti-racism.
    Yes I agree.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Exactly, it's kind of illogical to be a racist if you believe that all humans descended from Noah and earlier Adam and Eve.
    Yes. And it's worth noting that the eugenics movement where they actually hunted Aborigines and mercilessly killed them for their skulls, and all the racism of Hitler and all the other great racists of history based their ideas on the foundation of evolution.

    I learned all this from watching Kent Hovind videos.

  23. #20
    What does this have to do with Ron Paul?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    All this talk about so-and-so being a "racist". So what? I believe everyone is a bit of a "racist" and those who are the biggest deniers are probably the worst offenders.
    I don't believe that any race is superior to any other race. I also think that racial differences are not very important at all. So therefore I am not a racist.

    Do you believe there are genetic differences between black, white and asian? You're a racist.
    There are genetic differences between me and other white people as well.

    Do you believe that certain cultures excel at certain things? You're a racist.
    Culture=/=race.

    Are you more attracted to red heads than brunettes? You're a racist.
    No one is even saying that.

    Quite frankly I'm sick of the B.S. conditioning. I'm embracing my "racism" and I'm going to stop listening when people say that using your personal observation common sense in distinguishing between people is somehow bad behavior.
    Observing that people have different skin colors is not racist.

    I believe that people are DIFFERENT. Cultures are DIFFERENT. Families are DIFFERENT.
    I am different than the person living next door. American culture is different than Italian culture. My family is different from your family. What does this have to do with race?

    Some of these differences I like (therefore I'm attracted) and some of them I don't like (therefore I'm repelled).
    Are you talking about people or culture?

    This does not mean that I HATE anyone. This does not mean that I want to HURT anyone. This does not mean I cannot do business with anyone. It's just my feelings and if you want to call me a "RACIST" go ahead. I embrace that term...
    Do you believe that your race is superior to anyone else's?
    Stop believing stupid things

  24. #21

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Yes. And it's worth noting that the eugenics movement where they actually hunted Aborigines and mercilessly killed them for their skulls, and all the racism of Hitler and all the other great racists of history based their ideas on the foundation of evolution.

    I learned all this from watching Kent Hovind videos.
    I think I've watched the videos you're talking about on Youtube, they were very insightful.
    Stop believing stupid things

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Yes. And it's worth noting that the eugenics movement where they actually hunted Aborigines and mercilessly killed them for their skulls, and all the racism of Hitler and all the other great racists of history based their ideas on the foundation of evolution.

    I learned all this from watching Kent Hovind videos.
    Kent Hovind? Ye Gods... I sincerely hope you don't get your understanding of evolutionary biology from him, because if you do it would be like getting your understanding of libertarian economics from Paul Krugman.

    Yeah, evolution does imply racial differences, and that's what we see. Differences in muscle density, bone density, fat distribution, skull shape, average levels of extroversion vis a vis introversion, rates of violence and IQ. Claiming evolution is wrong because of racism is just a fallacious appeal to consequences.

    The connection between the National Socialists and evolution is tenuous at best. Nazi theories were based more on racial mysticism than Darwinism. People like Alfred Rosenberg believed that Aryans were created by God to be superior to all other races and Hitler had all sorts of idiosyncratic racial views, like saying Slavs weren't white and that the Japanese were "honorary Aryans". The Nazis probably would've killed anyone who claimed that whites were descended from Africans and that humanity originated in Africa.
    Last edited by ThePaleoLibertarian; 03-12-2015 at 12:19 AM.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Do you believe that your race is superior to anyone else's?
    Um, no, why would you even ask such a question? I don't like the term "race" as I've pointed out that there is only one "human race" and what people commonly call "race" is merely a subset of humans who exhibit different characteristics. For this reason I use what I feel are proper terms in this discussion: white, black and asian. These are what I believe to encompass all divisions of human. So I will consider your question as "do you consider white (my division) to be superior to blacks or asians? The short answer is no, not in total. We are all God's children and descendents of Adam. Do whites, blacks and asians have differences that show a tendency to excel in different areas? Yes. Does that make one inferior or superior to the other? Yes, only in that area where they excel and only in the population that shows this tendency in full development.

    I don't think that there's much argument when I say that blacks make better basketball players than white's or asians. This is simply a statistic that can be proven with numbers. Does it mean that there are NO whites or asians that can excel in basketball? Of course not. That's the strawman that is thrown out when someone makes a simple claim backed by statistics but which is politically incorrect. We all can name white and asian basketball players who are very good but really, if you check the stats, blacks are far superior.

    This is fine and I won't get too much flack for saying that blacks excel in something (and this is only one example, there are many more). Where I get flack is if I make the claim that whites or asians excel at something. NOW I'm labeled a "racist". Sorry folks, I do believe that whites and asians have areas where they excel over the other two. These areas of talent are only tendencies and do not in any way make the claim that what you see in one asian you will see in all asians. If you check the math departments of universities throughout the world you will see a disproportionate percentage of asians. Don't get all in a tizzy now because I personally know plenty of asians who really suck at math.

    What I'm trying to point out is that blacks, whites and asians have tendencies towards different talents. It doesn't mean that someone from one of the groups can't excel in an area that is dominated by another group. I think that these differences should be studied, not buried so that we can learn from them. Certainly all men are created with the same rights and I would never promote anything to infringe on the rights of any.
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Kent Hovind? Ye Gods... I sincerely hope you don't get your understanding of evolutionary biology from him, because if you do it would be like getting your understanding of libertarian economics from Paul Krugman.

    Yeah, evolution does imply racial differences, and that's what we see. Differences in muscle density, bone density, fat distribution, skull shape, average levels of extroversion vis a vis introversion, rates of violence and IQ. Claiming evolution is wrong because of racism is just a fallacious appeal to consequences.

    The connection between the National Socialists and evolution is tenuous at best. Nazi theories were based more on racial mysticism than Darwinism. People like Alfred Rosenberg believed that Aryans were created by God to be superior to all other races and Hitler had all sorts of idiosyncratic racial views, like saying Slavs weren't white and that the Japanese were "honorary Aryans". The Nazis probably would've killed anyone who claimed that whites were descended from Africans and that humanity originated in Africa.
    The link is only "tenuous"? I don't think so. Hitler said:
    If I can accept a divine Commandment, it’s this one: “Thou shalt preserve the species.” The life of the individual must not be set at too high a price. If the individual were important in the eyes of nature, nature would take care to preserve him. Amongst the millions of eggs a fly lays, very few are hatched out—and yet the race of flies thrives.’
    Ernst Haeckel, the evolutionist Hitler most admired, hated Christianity because it sought to reject the differences in the races. Christianity...
    … makes no distinction of race or of color; it seeks to break down all racial barriers. In this respect the hand of Christianity is against that of Nature, for are not the races of mankind the evolutionary harvest which Nature has toiled through long ages to produce? May we not say, then, that Christianity is anti-evolutionary in its aim?

  30. #26
    Here is a great article that shows the connection of evolutionism to racism:
    https://answersingenesis.org/charles...ace-holocaust/

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    The link is only "tenuous"? I don't think so. Hitler said:


    Ernst Haeckel, the evolutionist Hitler most admired, hated Christianity because it sought to reject the differences in the races. Christianity...
    Evolution makes descriptive claims about genetic diversity; the first statement is full of value judgments that have nothing at all to do with what the theory of evolution actually says. Evolutionary theory says nothing about the value of individuals, their importance "in the eyes of nature" or anything of the kind. That statement is prescriptive, science doesn't deal in that realm. Nazism is connected to evolution in the same way it's connected to Nietzschean philosophy, meaning that the party bastardized the theories, cherry-picked what they wanted, invented the rest and disregarded everything that didn't fit.

    Modern hereditarian race-realism is nothing like the Nazi racial theories. The Nazis would never argue that blacks are better athletes or that Asians and Jews are smarter than Aryans. They would never argue that the roots of whites can be traced back to Africa.

    I never said the Nazis were Christian (though some were), I said they believed in racial mysticism, and that's what lead them to their bizarre race theories. Alfred Rosenberg hated Christianity because of its Jewish roots, but that doesn't change the fact that he was the most important Nazi philosopher at the time, and thought the Aryans were created by God to rule over other races. The views of Nazis regarding Christianity varied, but they all pretty much believed that Aryans were divinely crowned to rule the "inferior races".
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Evolution makes descriptive claims about genetic diversity; the first statement is full of value judgments that have nothing at all to do with what the theory of evolution actually says. Evolutionary theory says nothing about the value of individuals, their importance "in the eyes of nature" or anything of the kind. That statement is prescriptive, science doesn't deal in that realm. Nazism is connected to evolution in the same way it's connected to Nietzschean philosophy, meaning that the party bastardized the theories, cherry-picked what they wanted, invented the rest and disregarded everything that didn't fit.

    Modern hereditarian race-realism is nothing like the Nazi racial theories. The Nazis would never argue that blacks are better athletes or that Asians and Jews are smarter than Aryans. They would never argue that the roots of whites can be traced back to Africa.

    I never said the Nazis were Christian (though some were), I said they believed in racial mysticism, and that's what lead them to their bizarre race theories. Alfred Rosenberg hated Christianity because of its Jewish roots, but that doesn't change the fact that he was the most important Nazi philosopher at the time, and thought the Aryans were created by God to rule over other races. The views of Nazis regarding Christianity varied, but they all pretty much believed that Aryans were divinely crowned to rule the "inferior races".
    Christianity is incompatible with National Socialism, racial mysticism, and evolutionism. No one who supported the Nazi state was a Christian. When you read my article, you will see that.

    And to say that evolutionism does not make value judgments about what a human is, is simply insane. Evolutionism most certainly does make those judgments about man. It says he is an animal. That is a metric of value.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Here is a great article that shows the connection of evolutionism to racism:
    https://answersingenesis.org/charles...ace-holocaust/
    Wow, what a bad article. One big appeal to consequences, and a complete strawman of evolutionary biology. Evolutionary theory makes descriptive statements about genetic diversity, it makes no claim about what ought to be, no scientific theory does. Anyone who claims it does is misunderstanding it or actively misrepresenting it (as the Nazis did to so many things). At most one can say the Nazis were pushing for social Darwinism, but the ideas of Herbert Spencer and the like are also totally dissimilar to Nazism; social Darwinists tend to actually be quite libertarian.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Christianity is incompatible with National Socialism, racial mysticism, and evolutionism. No one who supported the Nazi state was a Christian. When you read my article, you will see that.

    And to say that evolutionism does not make value judgments about what a human is, is simply insane. Evolutionism most certainly does make those judgments about man. It says he is an animal. That is a metric of value.
    The roots of Nazi racial ideology comes from the idea that Aryans are divinely chosen to be the rulers of the "subhuman races". Not necessarily chosen by the Christian God, but divinely chosen nonetheless - read Alfred Rosenberg if you don't believe me.

    You may claim they aren't "true Christians" (which is a fallacy), but huge numbers of self-described Nazis believed they were Christians. Hitler himself was critical of Christianity, but he knew he had to keep up a pretense of being one if the largely Catholic Germany was going to fall in line. The leadership in the party tended to have more idiosyncratic beliefs about religion (including Hitler who criticized Christianity and opined that he wished Germany was a Muslim country). I'm not saying the Nazis were a Christian part - they weren't - but they also weren't applying what evolution actually claims (it can't be applied to begin with, as all scientific theories are purely descriptive), and they believed in racial mysticism which is a theological viewpoint.

    I've read your article, and neither you nor its author understands the first thing about evolution, or indeed anything about how science works. No scientific theory makes any value judgement or claims claims anything about what society ought to look like. You thinking that describing man as an animal (which we are) is a value judgement doesn't mean it is. Evolution describes the process of genetic diversification through random mutation and natural selection; it has nothing at all to do with value judgments, moral claims or anything of the kind.
    Last edited by ThePaleoLibertarian; 03-12-2015 at 01:17 AM.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. "Putting an END to the 'Ron Paul is racist' claims right here and now."
    By RonPaulRevolution! in forum Ron Paul Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-22-2011, 02:20 AM
  2. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-26-2011, 11:21 PM
  3. We need to embrace the "nutty" label
    By robertwerden in forum Ron Paul Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-16-2011, 09:33 PM
  4. AJ: Feds To Get Power To Target Websites Making "False Claims"
    By FrankRep in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-24-2009, 10:36 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •