Interesting appeals court ruling in Canada - debt-based money is done?

[TheCount]

Any day now, right?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Any day now, right?

What's that? You leaving?

[devil21]

Any day now, right?

Yup, looking that way. Curious power outages today, no? I recall writing something earlier in this thread about watching cities with Fed branches...

[LibForestPaul]

No court ruling will end fiat currencies. The only thing that will end fiat currency is when price inflation gets unbearable.

International Banking Cartel regime change will end fiat currency.

[TheCount]

International Banking Cartel regime change will end fiat currency.

Countries that are not part of the international banking system also have fiat currencies.

[devil21]

IMF could be based in Beijing in a decade, says Lagarde
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN1A922L

[devil21]

bump. A thread for those that wish to read something more informative than the latest Trump shill propaganda threads.

[TheCount]

Any day now, right?

Still.

[devil21]

bumpity bump

predictions lookin' pretty good lately.

Trump positioning to be the white knight that takes on (and vanquishes, perception-wise) the Fed.

Also, for a little tinfoil hat dot connecting, anyone else noticing how the original Die Hard is suddenly a big thing again? I called attention to (Bruce) Willis Tower in this thread years ago. Building is owned now by Blackstone (who bought it from "pull-it" Silverstein) and just finished some major renovations (very 9/11 WTC-esque). Film is very 9/11-esque, also. The whole series is. Some numerological references in the film could be of relevance soon, also. Like I said, avoid Chicago if at all possible. You won't find me in any crowded place on NYE this year...

[DamianTV]

Perhaps Trump baited the Fed to hang itself? IF the Fed gets called out on intentionally trying to crash the economy again, then there will be enough support for people to actively want the Fed dismantled?

[devil21]

H.R.25 - bill to end income taxes, IRS, enact national sales tax instead - 27 cosponsors
"To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States."

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...e-bill/25/text

[Zippyjuan]

H.R.25 - bill to end income taxes, IRS, enact national sales tax instead - 27 cosponsors
"To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States."

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...e-bill/25/text

If they add a sales tax, it would most likely be in addition to- not in place of- the income tax.

But let's play the numbers game. Let's assume you keep spending where it is now ($4 trillion) and get rid of all taxes and replace them with a sales tax. What were retail sales last year? $5.48 trillion. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-retail-sales/

So to raise $4 trillion on $5.48 trillion in sales, your sales tax would need to be 73%. That is if you taxes everything. If you leave off things like food, the rate will have to be higher. And since that raises the costs to the consumer on everything by that much, retail sales will drop considerably so the tax would have to be well over 100%. And since most people owe net zero in income taxes, the majority of the population would see their tax burden rise significantly.

That means that everything you buy will cost more than twice what it does right now. Sounds like a good deal, right? And fair. (Actually the wealthy spend less of their money buying stuff so their tax burden would be lower than that of those at lower incomes who spend significantly higher portions of their income on goods and services).

[devil21]

Quite obviously spending would not stay where it is, $4T+, since the Fed is losing the ability to export the excess inflation to the rest of the world via the petrodollar global reserve standard.

[Zippyjuan]

Quite obviously spending would not stay where it is, $4T+, since the Fed is losing the ability to export the excess inflation to the rest of the world via the petrodollar global reserve standard.

You are right- it is probably going even higher. Which party is going to start cutting spending? The Republicans only talk about it when they are not in power. They gave up the idea of actually trying to do anything about it after Bush lost for saying "no new taxes" and got beat in the next election. They didn't cut anything during the time they ran the entire government.

[devil21]

You are right- it is probably going even higher. Which party is going to start cutting spending? The Republicans only talk about it when they are not in power. They gave up the idea of actually trying to do anything about it after Bush lost for saying "no new taxes" and got beat in the next election. They didn't cut anything during the time they ran the entire government.

You're probably right that spending would go up in the shorter term, to extinguish old debt and kill the dollar at the same time.

[Zippyjuan]

You're probably right that spending would go up in the shorter term, to extinguish old debt and kill the dollar at the same time.

Spending money does not "extinguish debt". You extinguish debt by taking in more in taxes than you spend and putting that money towards the debt.

[devil21]

Spending money does not "extinguish debt". You extinguish debt by taking in more in taxes than you spend and putting that money towards the debt.

FRNs could be replaced by sovereign notes and the sovereign notes used to pay the FRN debt.

$22T denomination sovereign note presented to the Fed sounds good to me. Just make it one really big paper currency note, like a Publisher's Clearinghouse "check". That would have as much inherent value as the $22T they "loaned" us and I'd pay to watch that pay-off ceremony.

[Zippyjuan]

FRNs could be replaced by sovereign notes and the sovereign notes used to pay the FRN debt.

$22T denomination sovereign note presented to the Fed sounds good to me. Just make it one really big paper currency note, like a Publisher's Clearinghouse "check". That would have as much inherent value as the $22T they "loaned" us and I'd pay to watch that pay-off ceremony.

You can buy out all of the Fed's US Government debt holdings with only $2.2 trillion since that is how much they have in US Treasuries. The other $20 trillion would still be outstanding since it is held by other people/ organizations.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/

[devil21]

You can buy out all of the Fed's US Government debt holdings with only $2.2 trillion since that is how much they have in US Treasuries. The other $20 trillion would still be outstanding since it is held by other people/ organizations.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/

All of that $22T originated from the Federal Reserve System since the Treasury currently does not exercise ability to print sovereign currency, so the debt is ultimately owed to the Fed from which it all came. Every last penny of that $22T is denominated in their private currency. The Fed could be considered the first lien holder on all of it. The holders of debt instruments are merely holders in due course.

[Zippyjuan]

All of that $22T originated from the Federal Reserve System since the Treasury currently does not exercise ability to print sovereign currency, so the debt is ultimately owed to the Fed from which it all came. Every last penny of that $22T is denominated in their private currency. The Fed could be considered the first lien holder on all of it. The holders of debt instruments are merely holders in due course.

There is no "lien" on US Government debt. It is unsecured. Debt is issued by the US Treasury. You could give them the $22 trillion and they could try to buy back the notes from holders.

[devil21]

nm. Want to keep this thread uncluttered.

[Zippyjuan]

Just came across this video. It sounds important. (and make sure you read post #4 in this thread and the rest of the thread.)

Comer's case was dismissed in 2017.

[TheCount]

Still waiting.

[Zippyjuan]

Still waiting.

"Soon".

[devil21]

Still waiting.

"Soon".

[devil21]

Major IRS overhaul in the works
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...5zL?ocid=ientp

The agency’s goal: A taxpayer shouldn’t owe or be owed come tax time. more

[Zippyjuan]

Major IRS overhaul in the works
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...5zL?ocid=ientp

They aren't changing taxes, just withholding. They don't want to have to issue any refunds. Some people like the refund- they use it as a "forced saving plan" for money they can use on a splurge- fix up the house, buy a car or other things, go on a vacation.

But wait, the law isn’t done with you. There’s another complication coming out later this year: The Internal Revenue Service is changing how you adjust your paycheck withholdings, and early indicators show it won’t be easy.

The agency plans to release a new W-4 form that better incorporates the changes ushered in by the new tax law so that the amount held back for taxes in each of your paychecks is more accurate.

The agency’s goal: A taxpayer shouldn’t owe or be owed come tax time.

[devil21]

^^^^
Incremental change toward the bigger one. That's always how it's done. Get people used to not paying or getting refunds at the end of the year. Then the next step of entirely changing the IRS's role comes.

[devil21]

News falling in line with my "predictions" (heh ) is coming quickly. Time for a bump.

IRS going away, gold nominees to Fed, dollar devaluation talk, etc


(The statement in post 4 about Rand being installed to keep the right pacified was wrong but very close. It was Trump. And he's their PR man.)

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Somebody neg rep TheCount on my behalf please. He's on my ignore list but always posts something stupid in any comment directly after mine.

I physically can't, his avatar is willy wonka