God is Real, and his language is Mathematics. A Lesson from Seal of Daniel.

[Sola_Fide]

If God were a writer, the publishers would say that that's an extremely and unnecessarily convoluted timeline just to get to a simple conclusion.

Why do you think God would want to predestine all the means and ends? How would this be a fullfilling use of the gift of intelligent life in his image?

The question assumes that history is about man and his intelligence. But the Bible says that history (and salvation) is all for God's glory and by God's intention. You have a man-centered view of the world. The Bible has a God-centered view of the world.

[TheGrinch]

The question assumes that history is about man and his intelligence. But the Bible says that history (and salvation) is all for God's glory and by God's intention. You have a man-centered view of the world. The Bible has a God-centered view of the world.

A god centered view written, re-translated, ommitted, even perhaps manipulated, and now interpreted by you, man?

Then how am I to assume the interpretation of you, man, is more in line with the true Bible than my own or other men?

[Sola_Fide]

A god centered view written, re-translated, ommitted, even perhaps manipulated, and now interpreted by you, man?

Then how am I to assume the interpretation of you, man, is more in line with the true Bible than my own or other men?

If God is the sovereign Lord of all knowledge, what problem do you have with Him giving an infallible revelation of Himself and giving His people the Spirit of Truth?


If you believe that, there is no question about the Bible. The problem is that you don't believe in this God of knowledge. That is why you question it.

[chrono187]

This thread is about how to prove God's existence. It's really a stupid thread, because everything is already proof of God's existence. You can't prove God's existence, and it doesn't need to be proven anyway.

I was scrolling through responses, and I had a John Nash moment, the words started glowing- revealing themselves to me. Somehow this doesn't seem like the most PRUDENT Reasoning if we are TRYING to make an argument for God.

[Sola_Fide]

I was scrolling through responses, and I had a John Nash moment, the words started glowing- revealing themselves to me. Somehow this doesn't seem like the most PRUDENT Reasoning if we are TRYING to make an argument for God.

You keep trying to prove God using evidentialism, and I'll keep laughing as atheists pick your absurd arguments apart. You need to study presuppositionalism. Better yet, repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, begin to have a Biblical worldview, and then it will come naturally to you.

[TheGrinch]

If God is the sovereign Lord of all knowledge, what problem do you have with Him giving an infallible revelation of Himself and giving His people the Spirit of Truth?


If you believe that, there is no question about the Bible. The problem is that you don't believe in this God of knowledge. That is why you question it.

So God wants the chosen to never question the claims of man with regard to him? He sure has an odd qualification for being chosen. I guess I'll never know, being so blasphemously inquisitive and all.

[chrono187]

It does come naturally. I don't know if you noticed, but I never took a religious position. I am merely speculating, I am looking at numbers. I am creating shapes. I am formulating theories based upon simple shapes and numbers. This is like textbook grammar or something.

The beauty of Daniel's Seal is that it is so Elementary, it can be explained to a 5 year old. I look at this Sigil, and I just think, "Basics". Here is where the problem lies- Atheists, or those who believe in nothing greater than Man, can use this as evidence of no God. This, I think, is what is causing such a stir of emotion. It's like spiritual Kryptonite. Now, I believe this proves the contrary, I believe this proves the EXISTENCE of God. However, you will not help that argument by engaging in Bizarre forms of Neo-Orwellian triple-think, mental gymnastics like this:

This thread is about how to prove God's existence. It's really a stupid thread, (1)-because everything is already proof of God's existence. (2)-You can't prove God's existence, (3)-and it doesn't need to be proven anyway.

[Sola_Fide]

It does come naturally. I don't know if you noticed, but I never took a religious position. I am merely speculating, I am looking at numbers. I am creating shapes. I am formulating theories based upon simple shapes and numbers. This is like textbook grammar or something.

The beauty of Daniel's Seal is that it is so Elementary, it can be explained to a 5 year old. I look at this Sigil, and I just think, "Basics". Here is where the problem lies- Atheists, or those who believe in nothing greater than Man, can use this as evidence of no God. This, I think, is what is causing such a stir of emotion. It's like spiritual Kryptonite. Now, I believe this proves the contrary, I believe this proves the EXISTENCE of God. However, you will not help that argument by engaging in Bizarre forms of Noe-Orwellian triple-think mental gymnastics like this:

Do you know what evidentialism is? Do you know what presuppositionalism is? What god are you trying to prove?

[chrono187]

No, no, I'm not letting you get away with that. You hold 3 different, conflicting views, and you hold them simultaneously, as if they were all True. Explain to me how you have 3 different views, and how they are all conflicting, yet somehow all True at the same time.

This thread is about how to prove God's existence. It's really a stupid thread, (1)-because everything is already proof of God's existence. (2)-You can't prove God's existence, (3)-and it doesn't need to be proven anyway.

EXPLAIN TO ME HOW YOU WRAP YOUR MIND AROUND THIS

[Sola_Fide]

No, no, I'm not letting you get away with that. You hold 3 different, conflicting views, and you hold them simultaneously, as if they were all True. Explain to me how you have 3 different views, and how they are all conflicting, yet somehow all True at the same time.



EXPLAIN TO ME HOW YOU WRAP YOUR MIND AROUND THIS

Learn about Christianity, and learn about presuppositional apologetics, and then all of it will make sense. Nothing in what I said is contradictory in any way.

[chrono187]

Here, let me explain something to you.

3 Wise Men followed the Eastern Star, or the Star of Bethlehem, to the birthplace of Christ.

Ok, first of all, the Eastern Star, is the Star Sirius... otherwise known as the Dog-star. The Star of Bethlehem. This is that very light you see when you look up into that dark sky, the Star which shines brightest. Ok? It is the only thing that will pop-out at you other than the Moon. When you rise, if you get up early enough, you will see see what is called the "Morning Star". The Morning Star, this is the Planet Venus. The one in the Sky. It lights the up the Sky, right before the Sun rises. It is Bright, and looks like a Star. Venus, the Morning Star, goes by another name. Lucifer.

Lucifer, the "Morning Star".. Does this ring any bells? Wasn't someone else also referred to as the Morning Star?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lucifer?s=t

Have you ever wondered why people are always Mourning at a Wake? Do you Wake up in the Morning? You are the spiritually dead. Do you understand the filth and blasphemy that leaves your mouth on a Daily basis? How many times have you said "I'm awake".. Yes, indeed you are A Wake. You are the living dead.

http://biblehub.com/hosea/4-6.htm

Don't talk to me about Christ again. Christ is not a Person, it's a title. It means the "Anointed". Jesus, the Anointed One. The Birth of the Christ is something that has not happened yet. There is a reason Jews don't believe Jesus is Messiah, and thus they are still looking for their "Christ". Hindus are looking for Krishna, New-Agers Matrea, Buddhists looking for the Buddha, everyone is looking for someone. You want someone to come save you from all your woes. Imagine the ridiculous notion of rapture. You're so lucky, when the going gets tough, you get teleported right up into space-heaven. What a grand idea, you don't have to lift a finger to help yourself. God is coming. No, rather, try seeking inward. Look within.

http://biblehub.com/luke/17-21.htm

[Ronin Truth]

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." -- Albert Einstein

[Sonny Tufts]

"Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best, he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

[wizardwatson]

Learn about Christianity, and learn about presuppositional apologetics, and then all of it will make sense. Nothing in what I said is contradictory in any way.

A quick perusal of what evidentialism/presuppositionalism meant and I think they are two excellent views to have.

Why are these two mutually exclusive?

Why can't evidence and faith based rationale both be the foundation of belief?

Oh, wait I forgot. This is one of the methods by which we divide the lucky ones from the hellbound.

[Ronin Truth]

Ronin, do all your conversations end up in mixed metaphors, wild tangents, and oddly placed capital letters?

Do you have a secret decoder ring for all this stuff?

On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your favorite color of the alphabet?

[Ronin Truth]

Yes. Well yeah, that makes sense I guess. The core is Hot. Think of the alchemical symbol for the Sun.

BTW, FWIW, it's also the astrological Sun symbol, used in creating horoscopes.

[wizardwatson]

On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your favorite color of the alphabet?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock?

[wizardwatson]

Yes. Well yeah, that makes sense I guess. The core is Hot. Think of the alchemical symbol for the Sun.

BTW, FWIW, it's also the astrological Sun symbol, used in creating horoscopes.

If you add an electron it's Dr. Manhattan's bindi.

That's from the movie Watchmen.

It's a good eschatological metaphor.

I like Rorschach. He reminds me of Deadpool.

Here he alludes to Babylon.

This city is afraid of me...I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like my father or President Truman. Decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's pay. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and smooth-talkers... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.

And here to what comes soon after its destruction.

Soon there will be war. Millions will burn. Millions will perish in sickness and misery. Why does one death matter against so many? Because there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this. But there are so many deserving of retribution ... and there is so little time.

[Ronin Truth]

does she weigh more than a duck?

Hammer: Now, right over here...this is the residential section.

Chico: Oh, people live there, eh?

Hammer: No, that's the stockyard. Now, all along here, this is the river front. And all along the river...all along the river, those are all levies.

Chico: That's the Jewish neighborhood?

Hammer: (pause) Well, we'll Passover that...You're a peach, boy. Now, here is a little peninsula, and, eh, here is a viaduct leading over to the mainland.

Chico: Why a duck?

Hammer: I'm alright, how are you? I say, here is a little peninsula, and here is a viaduct leading over to the mainland.

Chico: Alright, why a duck?

Hammer: (pause) I'm not playing "Ask Me Another," I say that's a viaduct.

Chico: Alright! Why a duck? Why that...why a duck? Why a no chicken?

Hammer: Well, I don't know why a no chicken; I'm a stranger here myself. All I know is that it's a viaduct. You try to cross over there a chicken and you'll find out why a duck.

Chico: When I go someplace I just...

Hammer: (interrupts) It's...It's deep water, that's why a duck. It's deep water.

Chico: That's why a duck...

Hammer: Look...look, suppose you were out horseback riding and you came to that stream and you wanted to ford over...You couldn't make it, it's too deep!

Chico: Well, why do you want with a Ford if you gotta horse?

Hammer: Well, I'm sorry the matter ever came up. All I know is that it's a viaduct.

Chico: Now look, alright, I catch ona why a horse, why a chicken, why a this, why a that...I no catch ona why a duck.

Hammer: I was only fooling...I was only fooling. They're gonna build a tunnel there in the morning. Now is that clear to you?

Chico: Yes, everything excepta why a duck.

.....

[Sola_Fide]

Here, let me explain something to you.

3 Wise Men followed the Eastern Star, or the Star of Bethlehem, to the birthplace of Christ.

Ok, first of all, the Eastern Star, is the Star Sirius... otherwise known as the Dog-star. The Star of Bethlehem. This is that very light you see when you look up into that dark sky, the Star which shines brightest. Ok? It is the only thing that will pop-out at you other than the Moon. When you rise, if you get up early enough, you will see see what is called the "Morning Star". The Morning Star, this is the Planet Venus. The one in the Sky. It lights the up the Sky, right before the Sun rises. It is Bright, and looks like a Star. Venus, the Morning Star, goes by another name. Lucifer.

Lucifer, the "Morning Star".. Does this ring any bells? Wasn't someone else also referred to as the Morning Star?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lucifer?s=t

Have you ever wondered why people are always Mourning at a Wake? Do you Wake up in the Morning? You are the spiritually dead. Do you understand the filth and blasphemy that leaves your mouth on a Daily basis? How many times have you said "I'm awake".. Yes, indeed you are A Wake. You are the living dead.

http://biblehub.com/hosea/4-6.htm

Don't talk to me about Christ again. Christ is not a Person, it's a title. It means the "Anointed". Jesus, the Anointed One. The Birth of the Christ is something that has not happened yet. There is a reason Jews don't believe Jesus is Messiah, and thus they are still looking for their "Christ". Hindus are looking for Krishna, New-Agers Matrea, Buddhists looking for the Buddha, everyone is looking for someone. You want someone to come save you from all your woes. Imagine the ridiculous notion of rapture. You're so lucky, when the going gets tough, you get teleported right up into space-heaven. What a grand idea, you don't have to lift a finger to help yourself. God is coming. No, rather, try seeking inward. Look within.

http://biblehub.com/luke/17-21.htm

la la land...

[Ronin Truth]

Princess Consuela Bananahammock?

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ed=0CFgQ1QIoAA

[wizardwatson]

Here, let me explain something to you.

3 Wise Men followed the Eastern Star, or the Star of Bethlehem, to the birthplace of Christ.

Ok, first of all, the Eastern Star, is the Star Sirius... otherwise known as the Dog-star. The Star of Bethlehem. This is that very light you see when you look up into that dark sky, the Star which shines brightest. Ok? It is the only thing that will pop-out at you other than the Moon. When you rise, if you get up early enough, you will see see what is called the "Morning Star". The Morning Star, this is the Planet Venus. The one in the Sky. It lights the up the Sky, right before the Sun rises. It is Bright, and looks like a Star. Venus, the Morning Star, goes by another name. Lucifer.

Lucifer, the "Morning Star".. Does this ring any bells? Wasn't someone else also referred to as the Morning Star?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lucifer?s=t

Have you ever wondered why people are always Mourning at a Wake? Do you Wake up in the Morning? You are the spiritually dead. Do you understand the filth and blasphemy that leaves your mouth on a Daily basis? How many times have you said "I'm awake".. Yes, indeed you are A Wake. You are the living dead.

http://biblehub.com/hosea/4-6.htm

[wizardwatson: I'm putting this verse in here because it's awesome that he used it.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.]

Don't talk to me about Christ again. Christ is not a Person, it's a title. It means the "Anointed". Jesus, the Anointed One. The Birth of the Christ is something that has not happened yet. There is a reason Jews don't believe Jesus is Messiah, and thus they are still looking for their "Christ". Hindus are looking for Krishna, New-Agers Matrea, Buddhists looking for the Buddha, everyone is looking for someone. You want someone to come save you from all your woes. Imagine the ridiculous notion of rapture. You're so lucky, when the going gets tough, you get teleported right up into space-heaven. What a grand idea, you don't have to lift a finger to help yourself. God is coming. No, rather, try seeking inward. Look within.

http://biblehub.com/luke/17-21.htm

WOW!!

I gotta say I'm impressed. What everyone around here already thinks of Sola_Fide you called him out on with Hosea 4:6 no less!!! You paying attention Sola? This guy you just told to read the bible and repent just called you a false teacher and he rejects you as God rejects you and backed it up with scripture!

How many signs do you need Sola_Fide? LOL!!!

Oh, dear Lord, praise Jesus that's some good stuff right there.

...

Ok, so let me try to give you some background on this Sola_Fide guy for you before he starts to peeve you off even more since he'll likely stick around especially if you keep posting awesome scripture to burn him. Bwahahahahaaa!

Sola_Fide is a good soul. He genuinely is preaching the gospel he just hasn't found ears that fit the shape of his mouth. He's an old school hell-fire preaching Calvinist. Calvinists really pioneered Christianity in the USA but since this country has gone to hell over the last couple hundred years their voice has been somewhat muted. He's pretty much what you would have if you took a member of the Westboro Baptist Church and removed end-times preaching and warnings about gay people bringing on the wrath of God. Not the most popular type of fellow but perhaps more popular than an actual member of WBC. Of course in the world of bulletin boards being unpopular seems to garner you an extra helping of attention.

Problem is he's all thumbs and ain't got a lot of tools in his belt. He reminds me of Groot from Guardians of the Galaxy. Not a great conversationalist, just "I am Groot" all the time. So if you feel like instead of reading scripture to you he's literally throwing the book at you don't sweat it. He's just more of a "kill em all and let God sort 'em out" kind of guy. He doesn't have a lot of finesse and is woefully short on tact. He believes everything is predestined so whether he holds your hand or throws the book at you it doesn't matter. God predestines all things so Sola_Fide just needs to make a small effort to throw the book in your general direction mostly as a formality.

...

I'd like to address this section:

Don't talk to me about Christ again. Christ is not a Person, it's a title. It means the "Anointed". Jesus, the Anointed One. The Birth of the Christ is something that has not happened yet. There is a reason Jews don't believe Jesus is Messiah, and thus they are still looking for their "Christ". Hindus are looking for Krishna, New-Agers Matrea, Buddhists looking for the Buddha, everyone is looking for someone. You want someone to come save you from all your woes. Imagine the ridiculous notion of rapture. You're so lucky, when the going gets tough, you get teleported right up into space-heaven. What a grand idea, you don't have to lift a finger to help yourself. God is coming. No, rather, try seeking inward. Look within.

Christ

Christ is a person. Yes, Christ means "anointed" but His name is not Christ. His name is Jesus and when He returns He will have a new name. It will probably be something a little more universal. Most christians know that Christ just means anointed. When someome says, "Christ said this" it's really shorthand for "the Christ said this."


Rapture

You are correct that the rapture doctrine is false. There's something kind of "like" it at the very very end when Jesus comes back to destroy Satan's armies but no one from the Church is spared the apocalypse. The apocalypse is the primary historical work of the Church so you are right to call the notion ridiculous that they would get a hall pass for the event. Many people will turn to Christ during the apocalypse which seems impossible considering how few believers there are but from the start of the apocalypse belief will not be the difficult part.


Born Again

You didn't mention being "born again" but you mentioned Luke 17:21 and I wanted to give you a little insight into what the verse you quoted points to. As you may have guessed there are few people who sincerely read the bible and fewer who understand it.

You seem to have interpreted Luke 17:21 to mean "God is not coming" since his kingdom is within you it stands to reason that perhaps God who we assume is also in that kingdom is also something we can't see and say, "Lo here! Lo there!"

I can't fault you on that. It's pretty sound reasoning and I used to have a similar viewpoint which is usually an indication of it's overall quality.

Let's look at the previous verse and also related verses from John 3.

Luke 17:20-21

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 3:1-8

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

A lot of scriptards will tell you that the "Kingdom of Heaven" and the "Kingdom of God" are the same thing. They are not. A lot of people will tell you that being "born again" is just symbolic. That it is the "renewal" of spirit that one experiences when getting faith through repentance or that it's just a metaphor for baptism and to be "baptized into the church" is what "born again" means citing the references to "water" and "spirit".

They are wrong.

What else is Jesus called besides the truth and the life. The "Way", right? Being born again is not some abstract quality of a body of believers it is the FINAL GOAL of the believer. To be born again corrresponds to the Buddhist concept of enlightenment. Kierkegaard said, "Faith is the highest passion in a human being. Many in every generation may not come that far, but none comes further." But in this he too is wrong. Being born again is beyond faith or rather "spotless" faith. It is the state of the soul that is truly a "Son of God".

The standard pagan christian says, "I'm a born again Christian and when the rapture happens I'm already saved!" But you can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat. Does John 3:8 sound like the typical quality of people who say they are born again? Or does John 3:8 sound like a taoist who has mastered the Way? Being born again is not a buzz word to describe a faithful soul struggling against sin for Christ. It is the perfection of that soul. Christ indeed destroyed sin for the believers "in the objective spiritual sense". But for the individual soul, the temporal subjective manifestation of that ultimate destruction is via being born of the Spirit. Jesus did die for your sin but you won't truly see that, truly feel it beyond all shadow of a doubt until you have mastered the Way and are born again of the Spirit. Having another believer dunk you in a bathtub doesn't do it.

These souls are very rare on earth. Many will be born again in the millenial kingdom but I imagine most won't be born again until well into the new heaven and new earth.


Birth of God

I wanted to comment on this last as this is the juicy stuff and is shrouded in mystery.

The Birth of the Christ is something that has not happened yet. There is a reason Jews don't believe Jesus is Messiah, and thus they are still looking for their "Christ". Hindus are looking for Krishna, New-Agers Matrea, Buddhists looking for the Buddha, everyone is looking for someone. You want someone to come save you from all your woes.

There is some truth concerning the saviors of other religions and it is indeed connected to God but the connections are esoteric in general and mostly irrelevant to the primary discussion.

The birth of Christ has happened. It happens twice in fact. God is not Christ. God is only born once.

Some jews are right to say Jesus didn't fulfill all the prophecies that they think are about Christ. Most christians are wrong to think that all the prophetic verses they think are about Christ are in fact about Christ. The prophecies of a savior/deliverer being born are about two persons not one. God himself will be born. This information might seem new but it is in fact very old. It's just that those who know don't speak. Maybe that makes them feel special.

It's really not that hard to paint the picture but if you don't put some primer over the painting you already have it can be confusing and difficult.

[wizardwatson]

la la land...

Did you not get the memo that God prefers people to have the heart of a child?

In the new heaven and new earth there are magical places that make la la land seem like the end of the month at the DMV.

Maybe you should reread Matthew 18:5-6 and cut our friend chrono187 a little slack.

Luke 11:25

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Matthew 18:1-6

1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

"From the mouth of babes" is what came to my mind when he quoted Hosea. God does his work through foolish preaching. Surely, chrono187 is foolish in that regard and if you would acccept you are also a fool you will probably get more accomplished and maybe can come up with some good scriptural zingers like chrono187 did.

When preaching the gospel you should give others the benefit of the doubt rather than yourself.

[Sola_Fide]

Did you not get the memo that God prefers people to have the heart of a child?

In the new heaven and new earth there are magical places that make la la land seem like the end of the month at the DMV.

Maybe you should reread Matthew 18:5-6 and cut our friend chrono187 a little slack.



"From the mouth of babes" is what came to my mind when he quoted Hosea. God does his work through foolish preaching. Surely, chrono187 is foolish in that regard and if you would acccept you are also a fool you will probably get more accomplished and maybe can come up with some good scriptural zingers like chrono187 did.

When preaching the gospel you should give others the benefit of the doubt rather than yourself.

Chronos isn't preaching the gospel.

[erowe1]

Serious question. WizardWatson and Chrono187, do you both go to the same church?

[wizardwatson]

Serious question. WizardWatson and Chrono187, do you both go to the same church?

He could be you for all I know. I just respond to the words. Everyone is pretending for the most part anyway.

I'm having trouble believing that was a serious question, though.

[erowe1]

I'm having trouble believing that was a serious question, though.

Caught in my own web of lies.

[wizardwatson]

Chronos isn't preaching the gospel.

Well, I only meant compared to you.

He's actually posted scripture and used it in context to refute your non-scriptural conjecture. Where is your gospel preaching? He quoted the words of Jesus. Whose words besides Sola_Fide's are you quoting in this thread?

Just because you say "repent or perish" and he says "Christ is not a person" doesn't mean anything to me. If you're going to communicate to people who aren't bible savvy you have to consider things in a broader context than "he's saying blasphemous heretical things..ANATHEMA!!!"

You think everything is this or that, but the struggle between for and against is the minds worst disease.

If you can't even understand that evidentialism and presuppositionalism are not mutually exclusive how are you going to become a good enough teacher to tell when to use hard teaching as opposed to soft?

[Sonny Tufts]

When atheists say "your wrong because of empirical observation", I laugh at that irrational position. It's so easy to defeat with logic.

Since you use empirical observation when you read the Bible, your logic is nonexistent.

[wizardwatson]

Caught in my own web of lies.

Forgot to answer your question as un-serious as it is.

I'd say yes if you consider this place our church. I do.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

We're lucky to get that most days.