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Hate to break it to you but this is not true at all, not even close to true. This is a media illusion that you've bought into as reality. Ever see a man try and $#@! a tree, just because it's got a hole of about the right size in it? Or all those guys who go for animals, do you really think they're actually attracted to animals? Frat boys who seek out fat chicks for sexual abuse and humiliation? "Glory holes" where the person has no idea who or what is actually getting him off? No, the sexual use is utilitarian, and attraction doesn't enter the picture. Men of this type who are able to overcome the stigma of homosexuality use each other in the same exact way - it's the same behavior.
Last edited by thoughtomator; 03-04-2015 at 10:16 PM.
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9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
MAGA Allies: 'Bully Israel with undeclared nukes steals land'
Dangerous conspiracy theories on Right claim MAGA fake frontgroup
Poll: Should US apologize for financing radicalization of Afghan children in 80s?
Obama-Clinton Years: A Violent Chapter in World History
Trump: If (Neocon) Adelson Backs Rubio "He'll Have Total Control" Over Him
Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
I like the idea that he thinks prison sex is voluntary.
Bet he thinks women choose to be raped too.
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
Yea he sounds pretty stupid for someone who has an advance medical degree. Wat wrong wit the man damn. He does not seem to know that most on the receiving end of sex in prison is not voluntary. Dumb ass.
You do know that not all prison sex is rape right? And you know that some men, after being in prison, continue to have sex with men even though they never did before being in prison? This is well documented. One of the main driving forces of HIV in the black community are men who were introduced to homosexuality in prison and become "down low" when they come out.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
Maybe so , but i bet the vast majority were introduced to it by force.
What does that mean? maybe after being damaged by prison rape and liking the rest of your life with the trauma and conditioning of being another man's bitch, maybe after a while they start liking it or they become conditioned to it. I remember how Morgan Freeman's character from Shawshank Redemption couldn't break himself from the routine of prison life even after being released. It happens.
And here I was thinking it had more to do with people having unprotected sex and a larger portion of A.A being locked up in houses were the AIDs rate is much higher than the general pop. Also, I would like to ask if you have ever had sex with another man? Maybe and just maybe its not as awful as our minds would want us to believe and after that first forced introduction, some portion of men take a liking to it. I am not going to rule that out,
"Prison Sex [VIDEO]"
Why do I keep expecting to find a music video in this thread?
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
It seems to me like the idea that being gay is something that people are either born with or choose is a false choice. It could be a combination of both, that some people are born with homosexual characteristics, but ultimately they still choose to enter into a relationship with another homosexual and engage in sexual relations. Also, rather than being either a choice or something that people are born with, it may be a result of the environment in which they grew up in.
The situation you are describing is rare. The comparison with bestiality would only be analogous for a straight person having sex with someone of their same gender even though they are repulsed by it, just because they really want to get off. Sure, it happens in prison when people are starved for sex and have no other options, or it happens in pornos if people are doing it for money. That is not what happens with the vast majority of gay people. They are actually attracted to people of their same sex, and many are not attracted to people of the opposite sex.
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter
Life, Liberty, Logic
For the longest time, scientists actually thought that the female praying mantis devours the male when they mate. Their evidence? Observing praying mantises mating in small cages, in captivity, where they were possibly underfed.
But in nature, this doesn't actually happen.
Locking up men, not rarely for 3+ years, in a very particular and unnatural environment will get them to behave in ways they wouldn't if they were an actual part of society. Ben Carsons logic is anything but sound.
I just don't understand why it's so tough to see that homosexuality can be either a choice or an orientation. I knew a boy in grade school who was obviously gay, born that way and all that. I also knew a lesbian who chose to be that way because she was sexually abused by a man as a child.
Why do you concern yourself so much with other people's sexuality when you aren't having sex with them?
Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi
"And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire
I would not bet against you on that. That said being locked up for life, as some men are, or for decades, as many men are, could wear down resistance even to consensual. Prison has a tendency to screw people up. That's why we shouldn't use it so much.
I agree. Prison, child molestation and other things can screw people up. But the comparison that Dr. Carson was arguing against is race. No matter what happens to you in prison or as a child or whatever, your ethnicity is fixed and isn't going to change. I suppose though that someone could be black and and to be white or vice versus and seek out a race change operation.What does that mean? maybe after being damaged by prison rape and liking the rest of your life with the trauma and conditioning of being another man's bitch, maybe after a while they start liking it or they become conditioned to it. I remember how Morgan Freeman's character from Shawshank Redemption couldn't break himself from the routine of prison life even after being released. It happens.
All of that factors is. But "down low brothers" are a well known factor in the epidemiology of the disease.And here I was thinking it had more to do with people having unprotected sex and a larger portion of A.A being locked up in houses were the AIDs rate is much higher than the general pop.
I haven't and have no intention of trying it and that's one reason (of many) that I have no intention of going to prison. But I agree with your contention that lots of things shouldn't be ruled out. I don't know if Dr. Carson right or wrong on this. But the idea that he's just "crazy" to say what he said is more driven by left wing political correctness than anything else.Also, I would like to ask if you have ever had sex with another man? Maybe and just maybe its not as awful as our minds would want us to believe and after that first forced introduction, some portion of men take a liking to it. I am not going to rule that out,
That said, there is a far more obvious and rational objection to his position that nobody has talked about, at least not in this thread. While race is fixed, someone's desire to marry someone of the opposite race, as opposed to the same race is not. So from that perspective it matters not whether sexual preference is fixed since nobody has ever argued that ethnic preference is fixed when striking down anti miscegenation laws. Really the dividing line is that mixed race marriages can normally have children naturally and same sex marriages cannot. Yes adoption is a possibility and for lesbians so is artificial insemination. (There was a case recently, however, of a sperm donor to a lesbian couple being hit up for child support. ) Atheist libertarian Stephan Molyneaux talks about this fact at length in his discussion on gay marriage.
Basically the Cliff's notes summary is this. He first talks about marriage. Humans follow a reproductive strategy, unlike many other animals, where the offspring are under the care of the parents for nearly 20 years. It's good for a free society if those offspring turn out as healthy, normal and well adjusted as possible. So marriage developed to assist in that happening. Society did things to help ensure that people who were having kids would stay together. He further makes the argument that the welfare state has made this less necessary and that totalitarian states hate families in general. He adds that society has less interest in the marriages of couples that can't have kids, whether they are gay couples or 80 year old newlyweds, than other unions. He makes the funny reverse point that he's not so much looking for the good that kids well adjusted kids may do but he's worried about the bad that poorly adjusted kids may do. He's not against gay marriage or 80 year old newlyweds just that neither are as important as making sure the folks popping out the kids have formed family units. His ultimate point is that the government has taken over so much of society (welfare, alimony, etc), that it's pretty much destroyed the significance of marriage anyway. Ultimate take away? Get the state out of our personal lives overall.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
Hmmmm.....didn't know about that WRT the praying mantis. I had always heard the male couldn't copulate until it was decapitated. Interesting. That said, I don't think you actually undermined Dr. Carson's point. It was that human sexuality isn't fixed the same way that race is fixed. And there's no trauma someone can go through that would physically change his/her ethnicity in the least.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
And how can you be sure that boy wasn't molested before you met him? Also I've seen effeminate boys grow up to be heterosexual and non effeminate boys grow up to be gay. On the flip side I've heard people argue that children who were molested, like the lesbian you knew, who later end up gay were really gay or bi all along and didn't know it. Who's right? I don't know. Reasonable minds can disagree. Nobody should be punished or rewarded for whatever sexuality they have inherited or chosen. The government needs to be pushed out of our personal lives whether it has intruded to restrict them or to "enhance" them. Problem solved.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
So if you have a young guy who's known he's attracted to other males since puberty, but is still a virgin, then you're saying he isn't really gay because he hasn't acted on it? Or that a straight kid in the same situation isn't really straight until he's had sex with a girl? You're playing word games, not me lol... gay is gay whether you've acted on it or not.
I'm telling you're wrong because I've lived it. I don't shove my personal life down anyone's throat and this forum is not the place to give you my life story, but I can tell you unequivocally you're wrong. I had crushes on girls when I was a kid. Then I got to high school and it hit me out of nowhere. It isn't something you choose or control, it just happens. Were there underlying factors that predisposed me to it, be it that I was raised primarily by my mother, or possibly genetics? Probably. I need not go into details but there were "events" both that made me realize it, and later once I got to college that made me act on it. For 7 years I knew how I felt and knew who I had "crushes" on, and they were all guys. I was still "gay" during that time period even though I'd never been with a guy. I didn't suddenly become gay the minute I acted on it lol. The act is a manifestation of an underlying trait... something so deeply held that it is central to who you are as a person.
I can tell you it isn't a black and white issue. At least half of the men who engage in sexual behaviors with other men (especially the college age ones) are not "out". In the day and age of apps and social media, it's a lot easier to be "down low". But it isn't something people choose. It just means there was probably some sort of event or trigger that made them realize what they hadn't before. I'm telling you these events happen because it happened to me and I've seen it happen to others. Don't believe me, that's fine, but I'd know more about the psychology and motivations behind homosexuality than you no offense lol.
Sexuality is more than sexual behavior and prison sex is a whole lot more than just sexual behavior. It's often, especially in cases of prison rape, a form of subjugation/domination. The bottom is subgjugated and the top dominates the other.
And how people behave under abnormal, traumatic conditions is not necessarily reflective of regular human behavior. Which is the point. Context determines the validity of information and results. Say, someone's been inprisoned for 5 years and hasn't felt an intimate human embrace in that period of time. They're robbed of options, but still miss the very basic need of physical love. Under such conditions, they will exhibit behavior that is abnormal to them. And it would be foolish to judge someone's nature through behavior that is abnormal to them.
Another issue with Carsons argument is that he's comparing the actions of subgroup of people with the actions of another subgroup of people. Just because straight men may engage in homosexual behavior with each other for whatever reason does not mean that gay people do it for the same reason. It's like saying that straight girls (with no romantic interest in each other) who make out with each other in the club to get attention from men disproves that lesbian women have romantic feelings for each others.
Carson is making terrible arguments.
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