Ben Carson: Being Gay Is A Choice Because Of Prison Sex [VIDEO]

[Christian Liberty]

I'm waiting for a Christian Liberty candidate who on the one hand passionately condemns homosexuality, and on the other hand passionately contends for freedom. When this happens, politics will change in this country.

This is just politically correct garbage.

Christian liberty is theonomy

[thoughtomator]

And no, attraction is not a necessary precondition, but it is almost always a precondition for both straight and gay sex.

Hate to break it to you but this is not true at all, not even close to true. This is a media illusion that you've bought into as reality. Ever see a man try and $#@! a tree, just because it's got a hole of about the right size in it? Or all those guys who go for animals, do you really think they're actually attracted to animals? Frat boys who seek out fat chicks for sexual abuse and humiliation? "Glory holes" where the person has no idea who or what is actually getting him off? No, the sexual use is utilitarian, and attraction doesn't enter the picture. Men of this type who are able to overcome the stigma of homosexuality use each other in the same exact way - it's the same behavior.

[Sola_Fide]

Christian liberty is theonomy

No way. It's not Biblical and it is tyrannical.

[Christian Liberty]

No way. It's not Biblical and it is tyrannical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

[Carlybee]

Oh my young friend, I hate to pull out the age card (makes me feel old) but you will revise this opinion considerably with more experience. I personally wouldn't, but there are many many many who do.



Not necessarily, as I mentioned above. There's a smoking hot 14-year-old girl who lives down the block who is already for all practical purposes a fully developed woman, and there's no chance I will seek anything from her. Is she attractive? Hell yeah! Am I going to act on that attraction? Hell no!



That behavior is called "being civilized".



We have overwhelming evidence that when put in prison, many do in fact choose to be homosexual - people who never before nor afterwards engage in any homosexual behavior, but in prison they do. Now, if there were no choice involved, one would have to say that these people who clearly were engaged in homosexual activity are in fact heterosexual. Proof by contradiction thus puts the "not a choice" hypothesis to rest.

I think a lot of men in prison are animals and would screw a goat if that's all they could find.

[jmdrake]

Santorum won Iowa due to his religious views. And then he went on to win the nomination.

Oh, wait...

Santorum didn't have to win the nomination in order for him to spoil Ron's chances. That said, I'm hoping Carson pulls from Huckabee.

[enhanced_deficit]

Insert Mr. Herman Cain CEO creepy **** psycho gif here.

Mr. Ben Carson MD's half-life is expiring more quickly than expected.

He needs to receive a new set of talking points from his handlers if he wants to make it to the quarter-finals.

[idiom]

I like the idea that he thinks prison sex is voluntary.

Bet he thinks women choose to be raped too.

[scottditzen]

If we're talking about who someone is "attracted to", then we are literally playing mind games. I can't read anybody's mind and neither can anybody else.

What matters on a practical basis is actual behavior. The mental process that goes into that behavior is of no importance, since it's the behavior itself that has consequences. Attraction is completely meaningless without an action.

No importance? So you would hire a babysitter that is sexually attracted to children, but has never physically acted on it?

[Working Poor]

Yea he sounds pretty stupid for someone who has an advance medical degree. Wat wrong wit the man damn. He does not seem to know that most on the receiving end of sex in prison is not voluntary. Dumb ass.

[mrsat_98]

I like the idea that he thinks prison sex is voluntary.

Bet he thinks women choose to be raped too.

He still sucks less than Bush.

[jmdrake]

I like the idea that he thinks prison sex is voluntary.

Bet he thinks women choose to be raped too.

You do know that not all prison sex is rape right? And you know that some men, after being in prison, continue to have sex with men even though they never did before being in prison? This is well documented. One of the main driving forces of HIV in the black community are men who were introduced to homosexuality in prison and become "down low" when they come out.

[jmdrake]

Yea he sounds pretty stupid for someone who has an advance medical degree. Wat wrong wit the man damn. He does not seem to know that most on the receiving end of sex in prison is not voluntary. Dumb ass.

And the men on the giving end? And what about the men on the receiving end who decide to keep receiving once they get out but were never into that before they went in?

[juleswin]

You do know that not all prison sex is rape right?

Maybe so , but i bet the vast majority were introduced to it by force.

And you know that some men, after being in prison, continue to have sex with men even though they never did before being in prison?

What does that mean? maybe after being damaged by prison rape and liking the rest of your life with the trauma and conditioning of being another man's bitch, maybe after a while they start liking it or they become conditioned to it. I remember how Morgan Freeman's character from Shawshank Redemption couldn't break himself from the routine of prison life even after being released. It happens.

This is well documented. One of the main driving forces of HIV in the black community are men who were introduced to homosexuality in prison and become "down low" when they come out.

And here I was thinking it had more to do with people having unprotected sex and a larger portion of A.A being locked up in houses were the AIDs rate is much higher than the general pop. Also, I would like to ask if you have ever had sex with another man? Maybe and just maybe its not as awful as our minds would want us to believe and after that first forced introduction, some portion of men take a liking to it. I am not going to rule that out,

[erowe1]

Exactly.

Duh lol.

You are wrong. It is about who you are attracted to. Only those who are for whatever reason attracted to the same sex will engage in homosexual behaviors.

Read my previous post. I said I believe there are many factors that go into one's sexuality, and some may be more prone to it than others based upon these factors. Thus, under the right circumstances it could be brought out of them even if they do not know it or have deeply suppressed it.

No. I only have sex with people I'm attracted to.

You act like you have no control over who you're attracted to.

[Scrooge McDuck]

Ben's credibility in the eyes of the average American:

[Brian4Liberty]

"Prison Sex [VIDEO]"

Why do I keep expecting to find a music video in this thread?

[Brett85]

It seems to me like the idea that being gay is something that people are either born with or choose is a false choice. It could be a combination of both, that some people are born with homosexual characteristics, but ultimately they still choose to enter into a relationship with another homosexual and engage in sexual relations. Also, rather than being either a choice or something that people are born with, it may be a result of the environment in which they grew up in.

[Crashland]

Hate to break it to you but this is not true at all, not even close to true. This is a media illusion that you've bought into as reality. Ever see a man try and $#@! a tree, just because it's got a hole of about the right size in it? Or all those guys who go for animals, do you really think they're actually attracted to animals? Frat boys who seek out fat chicks for sexual abuse and humiliation? "Glory holes" where the person has no idea who or what is actually getting him off? No, the sexual use is utilitarian, and attraction doesn't enter the picture. Men of this type who are able to overcome the stigma of homosexuality use each other in the same exact way - it's the same behavior.

The situation you are describing is rare. The comparison with bestiality would only be analogous for a straight person having sex with someone of their same gender even though they are repulsed by it, just because they really want to get off. Sure, it happens in prison when people are starved for sex and have no other options, or it happens in pornos if people are doing it for money. That is not what happens with the vast majority of gay people. They are actually attracted to people of their same sex, and many are not attracted to people of the opposite sex.

[LawnWake]

For the longest time, scientists actually thought that the female praying mantis devours the male when they mate. Their evidence? Observing praying mantises mating in small cages, in captivity, where they were possibly underfed.

But in nature, this doesn't actually happen.

Locking up men, not rarely for 3+ years, in a very particular and unnatural environment will get them to behave in ways they wouldn't if they were an actual part of society. Ben Carsons logic is anything but sound.

[amy31416]

I just don't understand why it's so tough to see that homosexuality can be either a choice or an orientation. I knew a boy in grade school who was obviously gay, born that way and all that. I also knew a lesbian who chose to be that way because she was sexually abused by a man as a child.

Why do you concern yourself so much with other people's sexuality when you aren't having sex with them?

[CaptUSA]

I just don't understand why it's so tough to see that homosexuality can be either a choice or an orientation. I knew a boy in grade school who was obviously gay, born that way and all that. I also knew a lesbian who chose to be that way because she was sexually abused by a man as a child.

Why do you concern yourself so much with other people's sexuality when you aren't having sex with them?

+rep

/thread.

[jmdrake]

Maybe so , but i bet the vast majority were introduced to it by force.

I would not bet against you on that. That said being locked up for life, as some men are, or for decades, as many men are, could wear down resistance even to consensual. Prison has a tendency to screw people up. That's why we shouldn't use it so much.

What does that mean? maybe after being damaged by prison rape and liking the rest of your life with the trauma and conditioning of being another man's bitch, maybe after a while they start liking it or they become conditioned to it. I remember how Morgan Freeman's character from Shawshank Redemption couldn't break himself from the routine of prison life even after being released. It happens.

I agree. Prison, child molestation and other things can screw people up. But the comparison that Dr. Carson was arguing against is race. No matter what happens to you in prison or as a child or whatever, your ethnicity is fixed and isn't going to change. I suppose though that someone could be black and and to be white or vice versus and seek out a race change operation.

And here I was thinking it had more to do with people having unprotected sex and a larger portion of A.A being locked up in houses were the AIDs rate is much higher than the general pop.

All of that factors is. But "down low brothers" are a well known factor in the epidemiology of the disease.

Also, I would like to ask if you have ever had sex with another man? Maybe and just maybe its not as awful as our minds would want us to believe and after that first forced introduction, some portion of men take a liking to it. I am not going to rule that out,

I haven't and have no intention of trying it and that's one reason (of many) that I have no intention of going to prison. But I agree with your contention that lots of things shouldn't be ruled out. I don't know if Dr. Carson right or wrong on this. But the idea that he's just "crazy" to say what he said is more driven by left wing political correctness than anything else.

That said, there is a far more obvious and rational objection to his position that nobody has talked about, at least not in this thread. While race is fixed, someone's desire to marry someone of the opposite race, as opposed to the same race is not. So from that perspective it matters not whether sexual preference is fixed since nobody has ever argued that ethnic preference is fixed when striking down anti miscegenation laws. Really the dividing line is that mixed race marriages can normally have children naturally and same sex marriages cannot. Yes adoption is a possibility and for lesbians so is artificial insemination. (There was a case recently, however, of a sperm donor to a lesbian couple being hit up for child support. ) Atheist libertarian Stephan Molyneaux talks about this fact at length in his discussion on gay marriage.



Basically the Cliff's notes summary is this. He first talks about marriage. Humans follow a reproductive strategy, unlike many other animals, where the offspring are under the care of the parents for nearly 20 years. It's good for a free society if those offspring turn out as healthy, normal and well adjusted as possible. So marriage developed to assist in that happening. Society did things to help ensure that people who were having kids would stay together. He further makes the argument that the welfare state has made this less necessary and that totalitarian states hate families in general. He adds that society has less interest in the marriages of couples that can't have kids, whether they are gay couples or 80 year old newlyweds, than other unions. He makes the funny reverse point that he's not so much looking for the good that kids well adjusted kids may do but he's worried about the bad that poorly adjusted kids may do. He's not against gay marriage or 80 year old newlyweds just that neither are as important as making sure the folks popping out the kids have formed family units. His ultimate point is that the government has taken over so much of society (welfare, alimony, etc), that it's pretty much destroyed the significance of marriage anyway. Ultimate take away? Get the state out of our personal lives overall.

[jmdrake]

For the longest time, scientists actually thought that the female praying mantis devours the male when they mate. Their evidence? Observing praying mantises mating in small cages, in captivity, where they were possibly underfed.

But in nature, this doesn't actually happen.

Locking up men, not rarely for 3+ years, in a very particular and unnatural environment will get them to behave in ways they wouldn't if they were an actual part of society. Ben Carsons logic is anything but sound.

Hmmmm.....didn't know about that WRT the praying mantis. I had always heard the male couldn't copulate until it was decapitated. Interesting. That said, I don't think you actually undermined Dr. Carson's point. It was that human sexuality isn't fixed the same way that race is fixed. And there's no trauma someone can go through that would physically change his/her ethnicity in the least.

[jmdrake]

I just don't understand why it's so tough to see that homosexuality can be either a choice or an orientation. I knew a boy in grade school who was obviously gay, born that way and all that. I also knew a lesbian who chose to be that way because she was sexually abused by a man as a child.

Why do you concern yourself so much with other people's sexuality when you aren't having sex with them?

And how can you be sure that boy wasn't molested before you met him? Also I've seen effeminate boys grow up to be heterosexual and non effeminate boys grow up to be gay. On the flip side I've heard people argue that children who were molested, like the lesbian you knew, who later end up gay were really gay or bi all along and didn't know it. Who's right? I don't know. Reasonable minds can disagree. Nobody should be punished or rewarded for whatever sexuality they have inherited or chosen. The government needs to be pushed out of our personal lives whether it has intruded to restrict them or to "enhance" them. Problem solved.

[Millennial Conservatarian]

You act like you have no control over who you're attracted to.

You can control who you're attracted to? You must've reached a new level of consciousness.

[jmdrake]

You can control who you're attracted to? You must've reached a new level of consciousness.

Personal views of attractiveness can certainly be manipulated.

[Millennial Conservatarian]

If we're talking about who someone is "attracted to", then we are literally playing mind games. I can't read anybody's mind and neither can anybody else.

What matters on a practical basis is actual behavior. The mental process that goes into that behavior is of no importance, since it's the behavior itself that has consequences. Attraction is completely meaningless without an action.

I don't waste my time with that which is completely meaningless, so I'm discussing the actual behavior - something that happens in physical reality, that can be measured and verified, not "attraction" which is wholly subjective. Moreover, "sexual attraction" is not a single discrete thing but the result of a wide myriad of motivations and physical and environmental conditions.

Back to the original thesis, "being gay" does not mean to me "being attracted to others of the same gender", it means "having or seeking sex with others of the same gender". Attraction and sexual behavior are two separate things. I have observed through extensive experience that for a great many men, attraction is partly or completely optional, as long as they get their jollies off. Hence, prison homosexuals who are not so outside of prison.

I bolded that not to shout but to call attention to the point which is really hard for a lot of people to grasp. It's an uncomfortable truth about male sexuality, but it is a hard and uncompromising truth. A lot of men are just hardwired to get off however they can, and the ones not restrained by social taboo find the most common ground with others of their type. That's why male homosexuals are a lot more common than female ones, even though conventional social mores tend to be more tolerant of the latter. There are homosexuals whose condition arises from other causes (childhood trauma, mommy/daddy issues), but in the main, we're talking about people who prioritize getting off over everything else and make common cause together, damn the taboos and consequences.

It may occur to you at this point to think I am speaking out of ignorance, but I am not at all. Lived right in the middle of the densest concentration of gay men in the country (Greenwich Village, NYC) for a long time. I'm talking about years of observed behavior of neighbors and acquaintances and people I hung out with and people I do business with. I am absolutely beyond any reasonable doubt certain that there is no such thing as healthy homosexuality, and more so, that people choose to embrace orgasm-uber-alles as a way of life.

So if you have a young guy who's known he's attracted to other males since puberty, but is still a virgin, then you're saying he isn't really gay because he hasn't acted on it? Or that a straight kid in the same situation isn't really straight until he's had sex with a girl? You're playing word games, not me lol... gay is gay whether you've acted on it or not.

I'm telling you're wrong because I've lived it. I don't shove my personal life down anyone's throat and this forum is not the place to give you my life story, but I can tell you unequivocally you're wrong. I had crushes on girls when I was a kid. Then I got to high school and it hit me out of nowhere. It isn't something you choose or control, it just happens. Were there underlying factors that predisposed me to it, be it that I was raised primarily by my mother, or possibly genetics? Probably. I need not go into details but there were "events" both that made me realize it, and later once I got to college that made me act on it. For 7 years I knew how I felt and knew who I had "crushes" on, and they were all guys. I was still "gay" during that time period even though I'd never been with a guy. I didn't suddenly become gay the minute I acted on it lol. The act is a manifestation of an underlying trait... something so deeply held that it is central to who you are as a person.

I can tell you it isn't a black and white issue. At least half of the men who engage in sexual behaviors with other men (especially the college age ones) are not "out". In the day and age of apps and social media, it's a lot easier to be "down low". But it isn't something people choose. It just means there was probably some sort of event or trigger that made them realize what they hadn't before. I'm telling you these events happen because it happened to me and I've seen it happen to others. Don't believe me, that's fine, but I'd know more about the psychology and motivations behind homosexuality than you no offense lol.

[LawnWake]

Hmmmm.....didn't know about that WRT the praying mantis. I had always heard the male couldn't copulate until it was decapitated. Interesting. That said, I don't think you actually undermined Dr. Carson's point. It was that human sexuality isn't fixed the same way that race is fixed. And there's no trauma someone can go through that would physically change his/her ethnicity in the least.

Sexuality is more than sexual behavior and prison sex is a whole lot more than just sexual behavior. It's often, especially in cases of prison rape, a form of subjugation/domination. The bottom is subgjugated and the top dominates the other.

And how people behave under abnormal, traumatic conditions is not necessarily reflective of regular human behavior. Which is the point. Context determines the validity of information and results. Say, someone's been inprisoned for 5 years and hasn't felt an intimate human embrace in that period of time. They're robbed of options, but still miss the very basic need of physical love. Under such conditions, they will exhibit behavior that is abnormal to them. And it would be foolish to judge someone's nature through behavior that is abnormal to them.

Another issue with Carsons argument is that he's comparing the actions of subgroup of people with the actions of another subgroup of people. Just because straight men may engage in homosexual behavior with each other for whatever reason does not mean that gay people do it for the same reason. It's like saying that straight girls (with no romantic interest in each other) who make out with each other in the club to get attention from men disproves that lesbian women have romantic feelings for each others.

Carson is making terrible arguments.

[erowe1]

You can control who you're attracted to? You must've reached a new level of consciousness.

You act like that's weird.