Activists Swarm Homan Square "CIA Black Site" in Chicago

[BV2]

I wonder how much it would cost to rent a wrecking ball for a few hours in Chicago?

You mean before or after you post a several million dollar bond?

[RonPaulIsGreat]

The negativity is incredible.

God forbid someone actually go out and protest. Surely the Chicago black site would be closer to closed had they simply talked $#@! on the internet.

They aren't any closer to being closed because of the protests either.

A protest only works if it is backed by the threat of loss to the other party. If I protest Walmart, and then do my shopping at walmart, would walmart care? Nope. If I protest walmart and stop shopping at walmart in total, would they care, a tiny bit. If I protest Walmart and a 1000 others in the area protest walmart and stop shopping there, would they care, yeah quite a bit.

My question is what is the "threat" if they don't shut down the black sites. I don't see one, so what is the likelihood that your adversary will change behavior when threatened with zero loss if they don't? They won't. Same as walmart.

[idiom]

They aren't any closer to being closed because of the protests either.

A protest only works if it is backed by the threat of loss to the other party. If I protest Walmart, and then do my shopping at walmart, would walmart care? Nope. If I protest walmart and stop shopping at walmart in total, would they care, a tiny bit. If I protest Walmart and a 1000 others in the area protest walmart and stop shopping there, would they care, yeah quite a bit.

My question is what is the "threat" if they don't shut down the black sites. I don't see one, so what is the likelihood that your adversary will change behavior when threatened with zero loss if they don't? They won't. Same as walmart.

The population is right on the edge of a full blown war on cops. After that pair got shot in NY they were begging the media to tone down the anti-cop rhetoric.

They have a lot more to lose than Wal-Mart.

[jmdrake]

Blah, the only thing more useless than government is peaceful protest.

The only thing more useless than a peaceful protest is a comment on an Internet forum.

The negativity is incredible.

God forbid someone actually go out and protest. Surely the Chicago black site would be closer to closed had they simply talked $#@! on the internet.

^this

[jmdrake]

They also say Homan Square is "the base of operations for officers working undercover assignments. These men and women dress in plain clothes and work to disrupt gang activity and clear drug markets out of neighborhoods. Advertising their base of operations could put their lives at risk, which is why Homan Square features little signage."

Oh it's to get rid of the drugs!!!


Boy that war on drugs is really helpful to abduct people for nefarious reasons and call it keeping the streets safe..I'm sure cops would have no problem supporting the legalization movement..

Hmmmm.....so Chicago police admit the black site exists, deny that they are doing anything illegal, and claim that it's important for the bases operations for the site not to be "advertised." So this protest by itself can shut down Homan Square simply by bringing attention to it! Someone should put some webcams around it to video ever car entering and leaving and broadcasting it realtime over the Internet. That will make Homan Square useless as an undercover base of operations.

[jmdrake]

They aren't any closer to being closed because of the protests either.

A protest only works if it is backed by the threat of loss to the other party. If I protest Walmart, and then do my shopping at walmart, would walmart care? Nope. If I protest walmart and stop shopping at walmart in total, would they care, a tiny bit. If I protest Walmart and a 1000 others in the area protest walmart and stop shopping there, would they care, yeah quite a bit.

My question is what is the "threat" if they don't shut down the black sites. I don't see one, so what is the likelihood that your adversary will change behavior when threatened with zero loss if they don't? They won't. Same as walmart.

The biggest threat to Homan square, according to the people running it, is exposure. The protest is a way to bring exposure to it.

[juleswin]

The justice department would be coming down on them anytime ..............................now.

Yes, protesting is 1000x more activism than playing keyboard warrior. At least some people left their house to confront albeit a peaceful one. At least we know after the visit from the protestors, the police thugs will have to temper their activity down or yet find another venue

[pcosmar]

Anyone know any concrete facts about this place?

It is Chicago.
The police are incredibly corrupt.
Human rights are abused.

It is Chicago.. what further facts do you need?

[juleswin]

It is Chicago.
The police are incredibly corrupt.
Human rights are abused.

It is Chicago.. what further facts do you need?

Yea, police are corrupt and it maybe used for illegal stuff. But he is asking for concrete evidence like stuff you can use in a court like pictures, witness testimony etc etc. For all we know, it could just be a place where the police go to do drugs and have marathon orgies. Which is still illegal and stuff the police would like to hide from the public but still different from a detention and torture site

[kcchiefs6465]

They aren't any closer to being closed because of the protests either.

A protest only works if it is backed by the threat of loss to the other party. If I protest Walmart, and then do my shopping at walmart, would walmart care? Nope. If I protest walmart and stop shopping at walmart in total, would they care, a tiny bit. If I protest Walmart and a 1000 others in the area protest walmart and stop shopping there, would they care, yeah quite a bit.

My question is what is the "threat" if they don't shut down the black sites. I don't see one, so what is the likelihood that your adversary will change behavior when threatened with zero loss if they don't? They won't. Same as walmart.

People simply being outside of the location would discourage any additional suspects from being brought there. Is it likely that if their makeshift jail is closed they will simply move to another location? Perhaps. Without awareness that there is even such a location, (with said awareness being encouraged through protesting) there is no chance that they would even move location.

And they are not going to like the media attention, even if it's simply an alternative one. The cars pulling in and out of that building are undercovers, the people coming and going, too. They do not want their pictures across the internet. Not to mention that with more attention would come the whores from the whore houses for a photo op. While politicians aren't generally moral or upstanding specimens of human existence, they certainly know which way the wind blows. And even with knowing that relatively few even showed up to protest, and I'm sure some of the $#@! talkers here live within driving distance, politicians know that America isn't quite to the point where secret prisons would be tolerated by the police. But by all means, simply watching RT coverage of the injustice then discussing it on the internet is leaps and bounds more productive than organizing and 'obstructing' outside of the jail.

[pcosmar]

Yea, police are corrupt and it maybe used for illegal stuff. But he is asking for concrete evidence like stuff you can use in a court,,,

Whose court?

Who is going to prosecute??

What makes you think that any such evidence would be allowed?

Seriously.

[Stratovarious]

I certainly applaud the protesters, you see a lot of unity out there too, you see all colors , this must piss off that piece of Constitution Hating #### in the White House.

To give teeth to this movement, they need to interview actual victims of the site, in the old silent/voice disguised News Interview , like CBS , or NBC
did in the days of old.
Gotta interview the victims, they don't have to have to been beaten unconscious or the like,,,,,, just any indication their rights were violated, all of our rights are of critical importance, let one fall , the rest will quickly follow.

[juleswin]

Whose court?

Who is going to prosecute??

What makes you think that any such evidence would be allowed?

Seriously.

Good point, to be truthful, I was thinking about state courts. But even a court of public opinion would do. The point in asking for concrete evidence is that someone in power could really embarrass themselves if they jump on this outrage and it turns out the site was used for something unrelated to torture or imprisonment. Maybe, its a site where undercover police, informants and such meet up. Or maybe its a place where other illegal activities other than torture/detainment take place.

[JK/SEA]

haha...you guys expect me to believe this?...police are hero's...

pretty sure policy was followed.

[ZENemy]

2 dead ny cops changed more in 1 day then 50 years of protesting.

[phill4paul]

Allegation of cops using heroin as interrogation method. Nothing concrete but bears watching nonetheless.

Chicago, Illinois (TFC) – One of the more troubling aspects of the Homan Square interrogation facility is the death of John Hubbard who is said to have died of an accidental heroin overdose while in police custody after buying drugs from an undercover officer.

Prior to the other revelations about Homan Square, it would have just been assumed that the cops were incompetent and let the suspect shoot up the evidence. Then it would have been assumed that they were lazy when parts of the file missing. After the explosive revelations about the facility, the public has to wonder how a suspect was capable of shooting up while inside of a police facility. It is highly unlikely that a suspect on the verge of overdose would be out attempting to purchase narcotics. The only likely scenario is that he injected, or someone else injected him with, the narcotics inside the police facility.

In light of the situation, The Fifth Column began reaching out to other victims of Homan Square. One of those was Jose Gonzales. During our interview he relayed his story:

It began the way most of the incidents involving Homan Square do. A no-knock raid sent police storming into his house. They wore no uniforms and arrived in an unmarked minivan. They said they had a warrant, but wouldn’t let him see it. His pregnant cousin was pushed to the ground, his grandmother and the kids in the house had automatic weapons shoved in their faces, and Jose was taken away. They searched the home and found no drugs.

He was placed in an interview room inside of Homan Square where there was red stuff on the floor that he believes was blood. The police began asking him questions about narcotics deals. Jose couldn’t answer the questions not just because he wasn’t really involved in drugs, but because the Jose Gonzales the cops were looking for was born in the 1960s. Jose is currently 27. The police weren’t happy with Jose’s constant denials and statements that he didn’t know anything. He repeatedly requested a lawyer, but he was never allowed one. That’s when they told the handcuffed and shackled Jose that they were going to inject him with heroin to make him talk.

When Jose was telling his story this was a tiny detail that he glossed by, and I’m not sure if he realized exactly how important the bizarre threat was. In talking to him it definitely seemed like he wanted me to know that they beat people in the place and that there was blood on the floor. The heroin threat was kind of an afterthought.

He went on to tell me about them finally realizing they had the wrong guy. They told him they were going to charge him with a misdemeanor involving marijuana even though they didn’t find any pot. He had been held for more than 24 hours without access to a lawyer before he was allowed to leave. The officers didn’t allow Jose to use the phone to call somebody to pick him up and since he didn’t have any cash, Jose had to walk several miles back to his home. He never received a court date for the misdemeanor.

The story was confirmed by documentation involving the misdemeanor and by witnesses to his abduction and return. What was said inside the interrogation room can only be confirmed by the cops. I have to admit that in light of Chicago Police Department’s implausible explanations related to the heroin overdose that happened while in custody, I didn’t even call the department for comment. Eventually journalists reach a point where they are tired of being openly lied to by government officials.

http://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2015/0...nterrogations/

[jmdrake]

Good point, to be truthful, I was thinking about state courts. But even a court of public opinion would do. The point in asking for concrete evidence is that someone in power could really embarrass themselves if they jump on this outrage and it turns out the site was used for something unrelated to torture or imprisonment. Maybe, its a site where undercover police, informants and such meet up. Or maybe its a place where other illegal activities other than torture/detainment take place.

Well the police have admitted the site exists after a peace activist claimed to have been imprisoned there. How else would she know about the existence of a secret undercover facility other than having been detained there? To me that's pretty concrete. Of course we have General Hayden still trying to claim all the NSA collects is metadata despite all of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Liars gonna lie.

[Anti Federalist]

The negativity is incredible.

God forbid someone actually go out and protest. Surely the Chicago black site would be closer to closed had they simply talked $#@! on the internet.

I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the $#@!ers back.

[kcchiefs6465]

I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the $#@!ers back.

Let us assume for argument's sake that this is true. Why the hate? I might think people should focus on educational efforts rather than elections but for instance I didn't come into Shem's thread with sarcastic remarks about him changing the world. To each their own. Frankly I'm glad that a couple hundred people would show up on a below freezing day with signs about the police state. Surely they could have just sat at home... as a couple hundred million of their collective peers did.

[Anti Federalist]

Let us assume for argument's sake that this is true. Why the hate? I might think people should focus on educational efforts rather than elections but for instance I didn't come into Shem's thread with sarcastic remarks about him changing the world. To each their own. Frankly I'm glad that a couple hundred people would show up on a below freezing day with signs about the police state. Surely they could have just sat at home... as a couple hundred million of their collective peers did.

No hate.

None at all.

Very happy to see them there, if I lived in Chicago I'd have been there myself.

I'm just tired, brother...I'll step off now.

[BV2]

I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the $#@!ers back.

We can't Bundy Ranch Homan. We lack the critical mass, weapons, and terrain.

[jmdrake]

I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the $#@!ers back.

Let's see. Ten years ago Bush was in power. Not hard to get hundreds of thousands in NYC to protect his war. Now that Obama's in power......

Chicago is Obama's hometown. An antiwar protester gets arrested and you expect rank and file Chicagoans to protest? Now cal me super cynical but I bet you wouldn't get nearly as many gun toting freedom loving types to go protest at Bundy's ranch if we had a McCain/Palin presidency. Really, right now more republicans than democrats are against the NSA and that number was reversed 10 years ago. People pull out their pom poms to cheer for their team jeer the other guys. Folks like you that actually have principles instead of party affiliations are the exception not the rule. That's why I was like "meh" when Ron Paul talked about the Congressional Black Caucus only wanting to save war money for food stamps. His comment was not about race. It was about partisanship versus principles.

[osan]

Look! Several dozen people are protesting. We're saved.

[osan]

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the $#@!ers back.

Not sure of that. I'd almost bet they would simply rewrite the ROEs. With media on Theire side, it would be doable. Perhaps not a cake-walk, but then again...

[Mani]

People simply being outside of the location would discourage any additional suspects from being brought there. Is it likely that if their makeshift jail is closed they will simply move to another location? Perhaps. Without awareness that there is even such a location, (with said awareness being encouraged through protesting) there is no chance that they would even move location.

And they are not going to like the media attention, even if it's simply an alternative one. The cars pulling in and out of that building are undercovers, the people coming and going, too. They do not want their pictures across the internet. Not to mention that with more attention would come the whores from the whore houses for a photo op. While politicians aren't generally moral or upstanding specimens of human existence, they certainly know which way the wind blows. And even with knowing that relatively few even showed up to protest, and I'm sure some of the $#@! talkers here live within driving distance, politicians know that America isn't quite to the point where secret prisons would be tolerated by the police. But by all means, simply watching RT coverage of the injustice then discussing it on the internet is leaps and bounds more productive than organizing and 'obstructing' outside of the jail.

^ This.


While 200 protestors doesn't sound like anything, when all 200 have camera phones and are recording who is going IN AND OUT of a UNDERCOVER TORTURE black site, you can bet that's going to piss the $#@! out of cops.


And if those 200 camera phones are able to identify a prisoner who walks in, but then walks out bloodied and broken boned, you bet your ass that can be used to shut a place like this down.

And if the cops decide not to beat the $#@! out of someone and throw him out of the building because 200 camera phones are recording, then you just saved how many people from getting their asses beat?????


Sometimes even a few surveillancing the police CAN make a difference. Even if just one person inside that building or outside was saved a needless beating or unlawful imprisonment because some people showed up to protest it, then it was worth it. As KC said they could always use an alternative or make a new one, but you never know, someone could have been saved a beating as a cop car decides to turn around and dump someone instead of heading into a place full of protestors.


And if the cops become paranoid there are people who could be walking around with camera phones around that site at any time, maybe that site becomes useless. Exposing it, and the threat of people being around to surveillance it, does cause some damage. So even if it's only 50 people who showed up, yes it does make a difference.

[Mani]

I apologize for being beat down and cynical.

200 people?

I was part of a quarter of a million people that shut down NYC protesting the wars, ten years ago now.

Fat lot of good that did.

Tod is right.

Bundy Ranches, all across the country, 100 times a day, now that will step the $#@!ers back.

You can't compare the two situations.

I think it's amazing that you participated in that, but remember that's a war. That's elite of the elite few billionaires and the few power brokers on this earth playing their war games and making big profits and moving along with their agenda. Maybe if a quarter of a billion people protest you can do something, but even then I'm not sure.


This is a local city, small scale illegal black site, I think the voices are a lot more effective at this level. The few times I met Ron Paul in 2006/2007 and later, even before he was running for office, he always used to emphasize making changes at the local level. These sites can be disrupted and protests can be useful. Putting a spotlight on them does hamper their effectiveness. It doesn't solve the problem completely, but it's a good start.

[limequat]

Let's see. Ten years ago Bush was in power. Not hard to get hundreds of thousands in NYC to protect his war. Now that Obama's in power......

Chicago is Obama's hometown. An antiwar protester gets arrested and you expect rank and file Chicagoans to protest? Now cal me super cynical but I bet you wouldn't get nearly as many gun toting freedom loving types to go protest at Bundy's ranch if we had a McCain/Palin presidency. Really, right now more republicans than democrats are against the NSA and that number was reversed 10 years ago. People pull out their pom poms to cheer for their team jeer the other guys. Folks like you that actually have principles instead of party affiliations are the exception not the rule. That's why I was like "meh" when Ron Paul talked about the Congressional Black Caucus only wanting to save war money for food stamps. His comment was not about race. It was about partisanship versus principles.

Consider that only about 1/3 of the eligible voting population bothers to vote. That means 2/3rds sees through the partisan bull$#@!. These are the people we need out in the streets.

[ChristianAnarchist]

The only thing more useless than a peaceful protest is a comment on an Internet forum.

I see what u did there...

[devil21]

The Chicago PD commander in charge of the secret jail has resigned.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...s-homan-square

Great right? Not really, he's going to the state popo now. The revolving door continues.

[Weston White]

Cronyism: "Chief Roti left CPD to become the chief of staff for the Illinois state police [ISP], where he will work for another recently departed senior CPD official who was appointed to be the director of ISP."

Tomatoes or potatoes: corporatism, cronyism, nepotism, and botulism.

ETA:

I love it!

Roti’s annual salary was $176,532. A local website cited Roti in 2014 as the 16th highest-paid public official in Chicago. The superintendent of police, cited as the highest paid Chicago public servant, is listed as making $260,000 annually. Mayor Rahm Emanuel makes $216, 210.

One-third of state police employees earn more than $100,000