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Thread: Gary Johnson Disputes Rand Paul’s Libertarian Cred

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    I'm not impressed with GJ's foreign policy comments. Rand made a few that bothered me as well, but neither of them are going to be president, so it's a moot point. I would vote for Rand over GJ in a heartbeat due to other factors, so I hope that settles the debate for everyone. My comment from 15 months ago was not about MY opinion of Rand, it was about the LP's likely opinion of him, and whether they would refrain from running a candidate in the 2016 election if Rand had gotten the GOP nomination -- they would not have, in my opinion.
    We're obviously not on quite the same track here. As a very loooong time libertarian, the NAP is really kind of a big deal to me. I believe both Ron and Rand consider themselves to be Republican conservatives, last time I checked.

    To me the LP is an oxymoron and always has been. Are we back on track now?



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    We're obviously not on quite the same track here. As a very loooong time libertarian, the NAP is really kind of a big deal to me. I believe both Ron and Rand consider themselves to be Republican conservatives, last time I checked.

    To me the LP is an oxymoron and always has been. Are we back on track now?
    I think this whole thing got off-track because that post of mine wasn't current.

    You and I are on track in that I am also a long-time libertarian, and the NAP is a big deal to me as well. Yes, Ron and Rand are both GOP conservatives now, but I remember when Ron was an LP libertarian.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    but I remember when Ron was an LP libertarian.
    That didn't last long. lol
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    That didn't last long. lol
    What didn't last long? lol

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    No. Rand is good -- certainly miles better than Trump, but not better than Ron, and I'm sorry if you don't understand what I'm saying in that post. The LP owes the GOP nothing, and would not forego fielding a candidate no matter who the GOP nominee is (even if it was Ron.)
    I agree the LP owes the GOP nothing but I do wish they would refrain from attacking fellow libertarians (or even libertarian leaning candidates/politicians) unnecessarily. Libertarians becoming more prominent, even if they're in the GOP, is a good thing for the LP. Why they don't understand that is probably a big reason why they haven't succeeded in achieving that 5% mark.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    I think this whole thing got off-track because that post of mine wasn't current.

    You and I are on track in that I am also a long-time libertarian, and the NAP is a big deal to me as well. Yes, Ron and Rand are both GOP conservatives now, but I remember when Ron was an LP libertarian.
    Have you ever heard or read of Rand calling himself a libertarian? FWIW, I haven't.



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeman View Post
    I agree the LP owes the GOP nothing but I do wish they would refrain from attacking fellow libertarians (or even libertarian leaning candidates/politicians) unnecessarily. Libertarians becoming more prominent, even if they're in the GOP, is a good thing for the LP. Why they don't understand that is probably a big reason why they haven't succeeded in achieving that 5% mark.
    I know, but parties tend to circle the wagons...they all do.

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Have you ever heard or read of Rand calling himself a libertarian? FWIW, I haven't.
    No, I haven't. Only from many here who insist that he is, equal to Ron, etc. But, no, I've never heard Rand say that himself. I've pointed out that he denied it, in fact.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    No, I haven't. Only from many here who insist that he is, equal to Ron, etc. But, no, I've never heard Rand say that himself. I've pointed out that he denied it, in fact.
    FWIW, well Ron apparently has said that he and Rand are in agreement about 99% of the time.

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    No, not "high" standards -- "different" standards. Rand even denied being a libertarian at one point, which may or may not bother RPF members, but it probably wouldn't sit well with the LP as far as nominating him as their candidate.
    So, in your eyes, it's all about the political party? Interesting.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    No, I haven't. Only from many here who insist that he is, equal to Ron, etc. But, no, I've never heard Rand say that himself. I've pointed out that he denied it, in fact.
    Why on earth would they? They were running to win the REPUBLICAN nomination. Remember when the media called Ron "libertarian" as an insult; to sever Republican support from his candidacy?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  14. #102
    I have no respect for Gary Johnson since he made a mockery of the Libertarian debates by kissing John McAfee on the cheek. If he's not serious he needs to get off the stage.

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    I have no respect for Gary Johnson since he made a mockery of the Libertarian debates by kissing John McAfee on the cheek. If he's not serious he needs to get off the stage.
    Wait a second. Aren't you a Trump supporter?

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    No, I haven't. Only from many here who insist that he is, equal to Ron, etc. But, no, I've never heard Rand say that himself. I've pointed out that he denied it, in fact.

    There is an obvious reason he doesn't call himself a libertarian. There are no libertarians. It is a non-existent voting bloc. Most people have no idea what a libertarian is. And those who have some idea, have a a negative opinion of the word. Rand is from Kentucky. Southern cultural conservatives associate libertarianism with drug use and prostitution. It makes no political sense. Ron Paul sure didn't call himself a libertarian when he was trying to get back into Congress. He was a meat and potatoes fiscal conservative trying to be part of Republican revolution that started in 1994.

    As far as Rand's libertarian cred, he is more solidly libertarian on entitlements and the role of the courts than Ron. Those are my two big issues. Rand is more hawkish than Ron. But I am more hawkish than both Ron and Rand. So that doesn't bother me personally but it is perfectly reasonable to see how people would interchange the two depending what issues are important to them. They are both libertarians using the dictionary definition of the word.



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    There is an obvious reason he doesn't call himself a libertarian. There are no libertarians. It is a non-existent voting bloc. Most people have no idea what a libertarian is. And those who have some idea, have a a negative opinion of the word. Rand is from Kentucky. Southern cultural conservatives associate libertarianism with drug use and prostitution. It makes no political sense. Ron Paul sure didn't call himself a libertarian when he was trying to get back into Congress. He was a meat and potatoes fiscal conservative trying to be part of Republican revolution that started in 1994.

    As far as Rand's libertarian cred, he is more solidly libertarian on entitlements and the role of the courts than Ron. Those are my two big issues. Rand is more hawkish than Ron. But I am more hawkish than both Ron and Rand. So that doesn't bother me personally but it is perfectly reasonable to see how people would interchange the two depending what issues are important to them. They are both libertarians using the dictionary definition of the word.
    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% [the same on issues]." -- Ron Paul

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    So, in your eyes, it's all about the political party? Interesting.
    No, obviously not, since I've crossed over political parties many times to vote for Ron. That's a pretty silly statement since you probably know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Why on earth would they? They were running to win the REPUBLICAN nomination. Remember when the media called Ron "libertarian" as an insult; to sever Republican support from his candidacy?
    You see that as an insult. I don't, and not sure that Ron would either since he ran for POTUS as an LP candidate in 1988.

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Wait a second. Aren't you a Trump supporter?
    Yeah he is. I actually think he made a good point, kind of ironic though considering the Trump/Rudy love affair.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Yeah he is. I actually think he made a good point, kind of ironic though considering the Trump/Rudy love affair.
    That's just one example. You don't get to say that GJ carries himself in too lowbrow of a manner to get your support for president and then turn around and support the guy who exemplifies that very complaint every time he's in public.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    No, obviously not, since I've crossed over political parties many times to vote for Ron. That's a pretty silly statement since you probably know that.
    You were bashing Rand for saying he wasn't a libertarian. What is so special about that label? Do you elect a label or a person? By the way, he was also running for the REPUBLICAN nomination; not Libertarian.

    You see that as an insult. I don't, and not sure that Ron would either since he ran for POTUS as an LP candidate in 1988.
    What is so hard about this for you? Ron was trying to get the nomination of the Republican Party. Most REPUBLICANS want to nominate a REPUBLICAN; not someone from another political party. Which is why the media kept trying to slap the libertarian label on him. Get it now?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    That's just one example. You don't get to say that GJ carries himself in too lowbrow of a manner to get your support for president and then turn around and support the guy who exemplifies that very complaint every time he's in public.
    Ok. That would also mean that you no longer can criticize Trump, if you are promoting the POS Johnson, with his CFR traitor choice of VP.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    You were bashing Rand for saying he wasn't a libertarian. What is so special about that label? Do you elect a label or a person? By the way, he was also running for the REPUBLICAN nomination; not Libertarian.


    What is so hard about this for you? Ron was trying to get the nomination of the Republican Party. Most REPUBLICANS want to nominate a REPUBLICAN; not someone from another political party. Which is why the media kept trying to slap the libertarian label on him. Get it now?
    Don't lecture me about Rand. You lost that now when you ran over to the Trump camp.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Ok. That would also mean that you no longer can criticize Trump, if you are promoting the POS Johnson, with his CFR traitor choice of VP.
    No it doesn't mean that. Because Trump is worse than Johnson, in every way as far as I can tell.



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Yeah, I've read about [Harry Browne] before. He sounded like a great candidate.
    And yet, it is my recollection that there were controversies around him, in particular after his second run. They revolved around allegations of self-dealing, in effect running for personal profit.

    In any case, his book How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World is a great read and instructive, if you can find it.
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    Don't lecture me about Rand.
    Then stop saying things that require it.

    You lost that now when you ran over to the Trump camp.
    lol. As opposed to you, I supported Rand the entire time he ran.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 05-29-2016 at 07:30 PM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    No it doesn't mean that. Because Trump is worse than Johnson, in every way as far as I can tell.
    Yeah, it does. If you are going to assert this:

    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    That's just one example. You don't get to say that GJ carries himself in too lowbrow of a manner to get your support for president and then turn around and support the guy who exemplifies that very complaint every time he's in public.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Then stop saying things that require it.


    lol. As opposed to you, I supported Rand the entire time he ran.
    Um, no you didn't. You were cheerleading Trump when it counted the most...since last summer.

    P.S. Nothing I say requires anything from you.

  31. #117
    What are you guys talking about, regarding Ron not being a capital-L libertarian? Ron is a lifelong member of the party, continues to mention he may well vote for the LP in this very cycle, etc., etc. He has said many times there is no sacredness to parties and believes you can be a member of more than one party. To understand Ron's political career, is to understand (among other things) he identifies as a capital L libertarian. That's just a fact. And that doesn't mean he'll endorse the LP candidate, either. For example in 2008, Paul endorsed Chuck Baldwin, not Bob Barr, but remained a member of the LP.

  32. #118
    Regarding two time LP Presidential nominee Harry Browne, here is what Ron Paul had to say about him:

    A Tribute to the Late Harry Browne

    Before the US House of Representatives, March 30, 2006

    Mr. Speaker, America lost a great champion of liberty when Harry Browne passed away on March 1, at the age of 72. Harry had a passion for liberty and knowledge of a wide variety of subjects. His communication style, as he himself so marvelously put it, focused on converting his opponents rather than winning the argument. These attributes helped make him one of the most effective proponents of the freedom philosophy I have had the privilege of knowing. Harry’s numerous books and columns, his radio and internet broadcasts, and his speeches educated millions in sound economics and the benefits of a free society. Harry motivated many people to become activists in the movement to restore American liberties.

    Harry first came to public attention in the 1970 when he penned a best-selling investment book, How You Can Profit From the Coming Devaluation, which foresaw President Richard Nixon’s abandonment of the gold standard and the ways the American economy would be damaged by the inevitable resulting inflation. Harry’s book helped many Americans survive, and even profit, during the economic troubles of the seventies. It also introduced millions of people to the insights developed by followers of the Austrian school of economics regarding the dangers fiat currency poses to both prosperity and liberty. How You Can Profit From the Coming Devaluation is generally recognized as the founding document of the hard money movement, which combined the insights of the Austrian economists with a practical investment strategy.

    Harry’s third book, You Can Profit from a Monetary Crisis, reached number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Other popular books by Harry include How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World, The Great Libertarian Offer, and Why Government Doesn’t Work. I was pleased to write the foreword for one of Harry’s books, Liberty A-Z: Libertarian Soundbites You Can Use Right Now, a collection of direct, thought-provoking, and often humorous responses to the questions advocates of the freedom philosophy face.

    During the nineties, Harry worked to advance liberty as a presidential candidate, columnist, and radio talk-show host. He also hosted an internet-based talk show and founded DownsizeDC, a grassroots advocacy group whose goals are accurately summed up in its title. Even while struggling with Lou Gehrig’s disease, Harry maintained a full schedule of writing, hosting his radio show, and speaking around the country.

    Harry’s efforts were not limited to the economic realm. He understood the threat to liberty and prosperity posed by global crusades for democracy, as well as the importance of opposing restrictions on civil liberties. Harry’s outspoken defense of civil liberties and the Framers’ foreign policy of nonintervention took on added importance in the last years of his life. Unlike many self-styled advocates of liberty, Harry Browne never attempted to curry favor with the political establishment by focusing solely on issues of economic liberty. He never combined advocacy of low taxes and regulations with active support for militarism and restrictions on personal liberty.

    In all his educational, financial, and political work Harry served as a model for everyone who works for the free society. Harry was principled and uncompromising in message, while temperate and respectful of differing opinions in delivery. He avoided the histrionics too common in today’s talk show culture, and he never personalized his arguments. Even when an opponent resorted to ad hominem attacks, Harry always kept his presentation on the high ground of ideas and principles. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I extend my sympathy to Harry Browne’s wife, Pamela, and daughter Autumn, as well as the many he befriended in his years in the freedom movement. I pay tribute to Harry Browne for his lifelong efforts on behalf of individual liberty.

    Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

  33. #119
    Ron Paul is the most well know lifetime member of the Libertarian Party in the history of the party and continues to identify with the party. I don't understand how anyone, esp. on Ron Paul Forums, could believe otherwise.

  34. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    Um, no you didn't. You were cheerleading Trump when it counted the most...since last summer.
    I supported Rand's candidacy from the day he announced until the day he dropped out. Can you say the same?

    P.S. Nothing I say requires anything from you.
    Then put me on Ignore.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights



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