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Thread: Feds raid Texas political meeting; fingerprint and photograph all attendees, seize phones

  1. #1

    Feds raid Texas political meeting; fingerprint and photograph all attendees, seize phones

    http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...#photo-4833856

    It seemed like a typical congressional meeting for the Republic of Texas. Senators and the president gathered in the center of a Bryan, Texas, meeting hall, surrounded by public onlookers, to debate issues of the national currency, develop international relations and celebrate the birthday of one of their oldest members.

    But this wasn't 1836, and this would be no ordinary legislative conference. Minutes into the meeting a man among the onlookers stood and moved to open the hall door, letting in an armed and armored force of the Bryan Police Department, the Brazos County Sheriff's Office, the Kerr County Sheriff's Office, Agents of the Texas District Attorney, the Texas Rangers and the FBI.

    In the end, at least 20 officers corralled, searched and fingerprinted all 60 meeting attendees, before seizing all cellphones and recording equipment in a Valentine's Day 2015 raid on the Texas separatist group.

    The raid was a response to legal summons sent by Republic of Texas members to a Kerr County judge and bank employee, demanding they appear in the Republic's court at the Veterans and Foreign Wars building in Bryan the day the officers stormed in. Jarnecke's group, the subject of a half-hour YouTube documentary, maintains a small working government, including official currency, congress and courts.

    "You can't just let people go around filing false documents to judges trying to make them appear in front of courts that aren't even real courts," said Kerr County sheriff Rusty Hierholzer, who led the operation.

    He acknowledged he used a "show of force," grouping officers from city, county state and federal law enforcement to serve a search warrant for suspicions of a misdemeanor crime. He said he had worries that some extremists in the group could become violent, citing a 1997 incident when 300 state troopers surrounded an armed Republic leader for a weeklong standoff.

    much more at link

    --

    2nd article:
    http://www.policestateusa.com/2015/r...of-texas-raid/
    Last edited by jct74; 03-01-2015 at 08:16 AM. Reason: add link from merged thread
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  3. #2
    Some positions are just too dangerous, and people need to be arrested just for holding them and being in the same room with others who agree. The idea that people should secede peacefully and govern themselves as they see fit is an evil, racist, patriarchal, imperialist concept enforced by heteronormative cisgendered white males; the most eeeevvvyuulll group there is./
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  4. #3

  5. #4
    I'm not sure what they were expecting to happen by filing their fake summons to a real judge to come down to their fake court at the VFW.

  6. #5
    TEXAS
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    I'm not sure what they were expecting to happen by filing their fake summons to a real judge to come down to their fake court at the VFW.
    You use the word "fake". But there are real consequences involved in the raid. If it's fake then they should have ignored it. Instead the govt officials chose to point real guns at people.

  8. #7
    Answer me this, how many other states get their secession meetings raided?

    #TexasIsWinning
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  9. #8

    The raid was a response to legal summons sent by Republic of Texas members to a Kerr County judge and bank employee, demanding they appear in the Republic's court at the Veterans and Foreign Wars building
    I take it the judge didnt appear, because he deems their government to be illegitimate, and then sent armed men on a mission to deny their government's claim on him.

    Seems like a perfectly rational, reasonable thing to do.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    You use the word "fake". But there are real consequences involved in the raid. If it's fake then they should have ignored it. Instead the govt officials chose to point real guns at people.
    It is illegal in TX to simulate a legal process. The raid was an execution of a search warrant, but the reason all those LE agencies were involved is because of the previous group under the same name who were considered to be violent.

  12. #10
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    Everybody in the United States has the right to call a constitutional convention, and those calls must be counted. They should have started the constitutional convention process. Form there, they may be able to make an amendment to the new constitution that states have a right to secede.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    It is illegal in TX to simulate a legal process. The raid was an execution of a search warrant, but the reason all those LE agencies were involved is because of the previous group under the same name who were considered to be violent.
    Raid every FFA meeting and civics class then. They simulate the legal process too.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    Raid every FFA meeting and civics class then. They simulate the legal process too.
    They don't have a problem with stuff like that. The line is crossed when a paper is served that has certain wording or formatting on it making it look like it is from a court. I'm asking around to find the actual document, but we may not see it unless someone gets charged and it becomes public record. That's why they were grabbing laptops and phones, to try and find out who created it.

  15. #13
    They failed to remove the occupying army before attempting to hold court.

    This is a mistake others can learn from.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    They failed to remove the occupying army before attempting to hold court.

    This is a mistake others can learn from.
    Very Observant, grasshopper.
    “[T]he enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.” (Heller, 554 U.S., at ___, 128 S.Ct., at 2822.)

    How long before "going liberal" replaces "going postal"?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    I'm not sure what they were expecting to happen by filing their fake summons to a real judge to come down to their fake court at the VFW.
    What law were they breaking by doing that? It doesn't sound like they were breaking any law at all.
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  18. #16
    "You can't just let people go around filing false documents to judges trying to make them appear in front of courts that aren't even real courts," said Kerr County sheriff Rusty Hierholzer, who led the operation.

    He acknowledged he used a "show of force," grouping officers from city, county state and federal law enforcement to serve a search warrant

    Here's Mr. Show of force;

    Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #17
    Could the raiding officers now be mobilized to serve at the TX - Mex border?

  21. #18
    Both the LEOs and the secessionists were acting ridiculous in this situation.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  22. #19
    But most of their complaints have to do with the behavior of the American legislature and executive. Robert Wilson, a senator in the Republic, equated politicians in Washington D.C. to the "kings and emperors" of the past, and sees Texas independence as part of a worldwide movement for local control.

    "This is the century for colonialist ambitions to be reversed," the 78-year-old pastor said. "I've watched a lot of things happen, and the people of the world are fed up. The spirit of the world right now is: make things smaller, move governments closer to home, take back self-rule."

    Jarnecke said he was being taxed by a foreign government that he feels doesn't represent him, and protested having to fund bank bailouts and foreign wars.

    "According to the U.S. Constitution, the only place any army should be is guarding our own borders, not invading and trying to impose their will on every other country of the world," Jarnecke said.

    Still, he and Wilson said their group would not resort to violence, but is working through world courts to get international recognition of an independent Texas. They said their methods are legal, but Sheriff Hierholzer contests that.

    "We've had a lot of dealings with Republic of Texas members in the past here, too, flooding the court with simulated documents," he said. "I don't have any problem with them going back to the Republic of Texas but they need to do it through the proper legal channels."
    IOW, work within the hopelessly corrupt system to stop the egregious violations of the Constitution by the corrupt system.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    What law were they breaking by doing that? It doesn't sound like they were breaking any law at all.
    We will have to wait and see if anyone gets charged, but something to the effect of this:
    Code:
    § 32.48. SIMULATING LEGAL PROCESS.  (a) A person commits 
    an offense if the person recklessly causes to be delivered to 
    another any document that simulates a summons, complaint, judgment, 
    or other court process with the intent to:
    		(1)  induce payment of a claim from another person;  or                       
    		(2)  cause another to:                                                        
    			(A)  submit to the putative authority of the document;  or                 
    			(B)  take any action or refrain from taking any action in response to the document, in compliance with the document, or on the basis of the document.
    	(b)  Proof that the document was mailed to any person with the intent that it be forwarded to the intended recipient is a sufficient showing that the document was delivered.
    	(c)  It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the simulating document:
    		(1)  states that it is not legal process;  or                                 
    		(2)  purports to have been issued or authorized by a person or entity who did not have lawful authority to issue or authorize the document.
    	(d)  If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the simulating document was filed with, presented to, or delivered to a clerk of a court or an employee of a clerk of a court created or established under the constitution or laws of this state, there is a rebuttable presumption that the document was delivered with the intent described by Subsection (a).
    	(e)  Except as provided by Subsection (f), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    	(f)  If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant has previously been convicted of a violation of this section, the offense is a state jail felony.
    
    Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 189, § 3, eff. May 21, 1997.
    http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/32.48.00.html

    Usually there are accompanying charges having to do with threatening or impersonating a public official.

    If they were in Florida, these would be felony charges.
    Last edited by CPUd; 02-25-2015 at 10:36 AM.

  24. #21
    Why is fingerprinting so common in Texas? What's up with the support for it? It wasn't until this month that the policy requiring 10 prints to vote, get a government ID or DL stopped. You still have to have 2 of your prints entered into the criminal database to function in Texas. It seems so strange. Texas is the one state that banned regular DUI checkpoints, because they were a violation of the US Constitution, because DUI checkpoints assume everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Yet, if you want to function in society in Texas, it is assumed that you are guilty and you have to have a background check.
    Last edited by Keith and stuff; 02-25-2015 at 12:58 PM.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  25. #22
    Some might say it's actually the government that is simulating the legal process. The Constitution means what the Just Us system say it means.

    The police state, bank bailouts and other forms of fascism, spying on everyone with impunity, endless war, unelected bureaucracies essentially writing law, asset forfeiture, property theft (yadda yadda yadda)--the courts sign off on all of it.

    There is no justice in this country, and its citizens have no real rights anymore, and for anyone to believe otherwise or assert that its citizens can work within the (corrupt) system is a self-deluded fool or part of the system.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  26. #23
    Beware of the "world court" part of the op article.

    The disinfo formula today is 80% truth and 20% misdirection but the 20% is where the premise of the truth is obscured in order to lead one in the wrong direction.

    A world court needs to approve of TX secession? Really?
    Last edited by devil21; 03-31-2015 at 04:09 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    Why is fingerprinting so common in Texas? What's up with the support for it? It wasn't until this month that the policy requiring 10 prints to vote, get a government ID or DL stopped. You still have to have 2 of your prints entered into the criminal database to function in Texas. It seems so strange. Texas is the one state that banned regular DUI checkpoints, because they were a violation of the US Constitution, because DUI checkpoints assume everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Yet, if you want to function in society in Texas, it is assumed that you are guilty and you have to have a background check.
    IA doesn't have them either, the state Supreme Court ruled them unConstitutional (in the early 1980's, IIRC). That was why the recent operation in or near Des Moines caused a bit of an outcry, because it was done under some other pretense.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    IA doesn't have them either, the state Supreme Court ruled them unConstitutional (in the early 1980's, IIRC). That was why the recent operation in or near Des Moines caused a bit of an outcry, because it was done under some other pretense.
    I meant that TX is the only state to ban DUI checkpoints for that specific reason - the US Constitution. There are a bunch of states that don't do DUI checkpoints. Still, checkpoints of some type happen in all 50 states. Heck, I remember when TX brilliantly got around it's no DUI checkpoint policy by going into hotel bars and arresting anyone that appeared drunk. http://www.wnd.com/2006/03/35378/
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    I take it the judge didnt appear, because he deems their government to be illegitimate, and then sent armed men on a mission to deny their government's claim on him.

    Seems like a perfectly rational, reasonable thing to do.
    If we just got rid of the State, I can't see that ever happening again.
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  31. #27

    Feds raid Texas political meeting; fingerprint and photograph all attendees, seize phones

    BRYAN, TX — Federal and local police forces raided a political meeting, taking unusual measures to document every attendee by taking fingerprints and photographs, and seizing every cell phone and all recording equipment in the meeting hall.

    The raid took place on February 14, 2015, at VFW Post 4892 in Bryan, Texas. At 10:10 a.m., an “army of policing agencies with flashing emergency lights” showed up, shut down the meeting of “congenial and unimposing” Texans and forced them to hand over their private effects and biometric data.

    The meeting was the monthly gathering of a group known as the Republic of Texas. Drawing participants from hundreds of miles away, the group shares a common vision of an independence Texan nation.

    Full story: http://www.policestateusa.com/2015/r...of-texas-raid/
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  32. #28
    Are the kops okay?

  33. #29
    Gotta get thise pro-slavery bigots in line.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  34. #30
    If this doesn't get people pissed, nothing will.


    http://thetexasrepublic.com/


    If the stampman tells you to kiss his ass, shall he get away with it and live? Don't let your courage cool, or a few bullies scare you. We've nothing to fear but slavery. Love your liberty, and fight for it like men who know its value. Once lost it will never, never be regained.
    -Hugh Ledlie, 1774.

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