Walmart employees to get raises

[TheGrinch]

"If we let.....?" Of course they aren't making more money. We have a glut of workers. Rising wages isn't a function of profit. It is a function of labor demand. Every time we get to peak employment, the immigrants flood in and drive wages back down.

Exactly, it amazes me how few people understand how labor supply/demand affects wages.

I was arguing with a liberal one day who pulled out graphs that showed mostly flat wages going back to the 1970's. Of course since that time period, we have seen a sharp rise in not only immigrant workers, but of course also female workers entering the job force. IIRC the population is also outpacing number of jobs too. That is in no way conducive to rising wages (though of course more speicalized and in-demand fields have most definitely seen higher wages, but on a macro level, these factors contribute to driving them down).

That is not to blame employers, immigrants or women of course, but to realize that more competition for less available jobs means that you will get great applicants without having to pay more for them, and businesses must to do so to mitigate risk and survive.

[angelatc]

Exactly, it amazes me how few people understand how labor supply/demand affects wages.

I was arguing with a liberal one day who pulled out graphs that showed mostly flat wages going back to the 1970's. Of course since that time period, we have seen a sharp rise in not only immigrant workers, but of course also female workers entering the job force. IIRC the population is also outpacing number of jobs too. That is in no way conducive to rising wages (though of course more speicalized and in-demand fields have most definitely seen higher wages, but on a macro level, these factors contribute to driving them down).

That is not to blame employers, immigrants or women of course, but to realize that more competition for less available jobs means that you will get great applicants without having to pay more for them, and businesses must to do so to mitigate risk and survive.

And you can't really compare wages without also comparing prices. Back then it would take a month's salary (or more) to buy a color TV. Today you can literally pick a working set up off the curb for free.

I am a big fan of import taxes. If we want jobs to come back, that is what would have to happen.

[green73]

Why Is Walmart Raising Wages?


by Benn Steil and Dinah Walker

On February 19, Walmart announced that it was raising its minimum starting wage to $9 an hour. Since Walmart is famous for its ruthless cost management, this appeared to be a significant sign of a tightening labor market.

New York Times columnist and Nobel economist Paul Krugman certainly thought it was significant: “there will be spillovers,” he wrote. “Walmart is so big that its action will probably lead to raises for millions of workers employed by other companies.” But he rejected the idea that it said anything about the state of the labor market. Walmart, he said, was raising wages in spite of wage pressures that were insufficient to justify it.

So why are they doing it?

“Walmart’s move tells us,” he writes elliptically, “that low wages are a political choice, and we can and should choose differently.” Many paragraphs later he states that “Walmart is under political pressure.” The implication is that the company has bowed to it.

Curiously, Krugman offers no evidence against economics as an explanation, and no evidence in favor of politics. Yet his policy conclusions are sweeping: the government “engineering a significant pay raise for tens of millions of workers,” through “substantial” increases in minimum wages and increased collective bargaining rights, is “much easier than conventional wisdom suggests.”

We prefer to look at the data.

Retail-sector wages have risen significantly over the past year, and, as today’s Geo-Graphic shows, far faster than wages in the private sector as a whole: 2.8% vs. 1.6%.

In short, Walmart is just being Walmart: making a rational decision to attract and retain workers in a tightening retail labor market through greater compensation. Period.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...ing-wages.html

[PRB]

I am a big fan of import taxes. If we want jobs to come back, that is what would have to happen.

WOW. I don't agree with taxes, but I am also not for protecting jobs, I am glad you're honest about your position though.

[PRB]

And you can't really compare wages without also comparing prices. Back then it would take a month's salary (or more) to buy a color TV. Today you can literally pick a working set up off the curb for free.

And the TVs are better than the past too. This is why I call BS every time people cry about "inflation" and quality of life declining.

[CaptainAmerica]

inflation is pretty high

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

WOW. I don't agree with taxes, but I am also not for protecting jobs, I am glad you're honest about your position though.

Maybe you could learn a lesson.

[The Gold Standard]

So because TVs and electronic toys, untouched by government meddling, are much cheaper, people are better off? The median income has increased by about 530% since 1971. The CPI by around 490%. So if their toys are much cheaper, food has roughly kept pace with income, and overall they aren't any better off, how could that be? Obviously other things they buy are much more expensive. Housing has increased almost twice as much as income. So has college tuition. Health care has increased by over 1,100%.

So you are really prospering. The government allows your toys to be cheaper to keep you entertained so you don't realize that you are $#@!ed if your kid wants to go to college or if you need to go to the hospital. And don't even worry about "owning" a house unless you can survive 30 years of booms and busts to make your ever increasing payments.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

So because TVs and electronic toys, untouched by government meddling, are much cheaper, people are better off? The median income has increased by about 530% since 1971. The CPI by around 490%. So if their toys are much cheaper, food has roughly kept pace with income, and overall they aren't any better off, how could that be? Obviously other things they buy are much more expensive. Housing has increased almost twice as much as income. So has college tuition. Health care has increased by over 1,100%.

So you are really prospering. The government allows your toys to be cheaper to keep you entertained so you don't realize that you are $#@!ed if your kid wants to go to college or if you need to go to the hospital. And don't even worry about "owning" a house unless you can survive 30 years of booms and busts to make your ever increasing payments.

Hey man, I don't think you get it. You not only have neat gadgets, but you can pick up these items for free right in the street.

You're in the land of the free, and the home of really cool stuff.

[PRB]

Hey man, I don't think you get it. You not only have neat gadgets, but you can pick up these items for free right in the street.

You're in the land of the free, and the home of really cool stuff.

Where do you find a better country? Do tell.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Where do you find a better country? Do tell.

Hunh. A big government advocate invoking the conservative mantra of America is the greatest country.

On the other hand, liberals are often quite indistinguishable from the neo-con.

[PRB]

Hunh. A big government advocate invoking the conservative mantra of America is the greatest country.

On the other hand, liberals are often quite indistinguishable from the neo-con.

This makes no sense if you keep saying I'm a big government advocate, if you were open minded to believe I am not one, you might see something.

I agree liberals share views with neocons, and I'm against both. Again, I asked you a question. Can you answer?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

This makes no sense if you keep saying I'm a big government advocate,...

It makes good sense. The US has become bogged down with more laws than ever. You love it.

[PRB]

It makes good sense. The US has become bogged down with more laws than ever. You love it.

Again I ask, what is a better country? I love this country, but not because it has more laws than ever, just because it's the best overall.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Again I ask, what is a better country? I love this country, but not because it has more laws than ever, just because it's the best overall.

You've never even been to another country.

[PRB]

You've never even been to another country.

Except I have. A few Asian countries and Mexico.

Your turn, tell me what better country is on your mind.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Except I have. A few Asian countries and Mexico.

What--Cancun on spring break?

[PRB]

What--Cancun on spring break?

No. Your turn to answer?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

No.

Yeah, that's what I figured. You stayed four days at the Holiday Inn and drank at Carlo's Cantina.

[PRB]

Yeah, that's what I figured. You stayed four days at the Holiday Inn and drank at Carlo's Cantina.

No. SO, can you can answer me?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

No.

Oh, Cabo. My mistake.

And walking around the fountain square for your overnight layover in Tokyo doesn't really count for your "Asian countries."

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

PRB, One sentence in particular demonstrates the difference between countries like the US and a lot of other countries.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

SO, can you can answer me?

I'll give one of many examples. My wife is walking down the street in metro Manila. "Jaywalking," just like everyone else. Cop comes up and asks her what she is doing. She gets indignant and says in a very loud voice, "What do you want?!!" Money?!! You think you can shake me down because I'm married to an American?!" Cop sort of shrivels up and slithers off. Didn't get his little payoff--bribe--whatever.

Try standing up for yourself like that with a cop in this country and see how far you get. The difference is that Americans are afraid of the government. The Filipino government, on the other hand, is afraid of the people. History and other factors in such countries make it so. It's true of many Latin American, Asian, and African countries.

[PRB]

I'll give one of many examples. My wife is walking down the street in metro Manila. "Jaywalking," just like everyone else. Cop comes up and asks her what she is doing. She gets indignant and says in a very loud voice, "What do you want?!!" Money?!! You think you can shake me down because I'm married to an American?!" Cop sort of shrivels up and slithers off. Didn't get his little payoff--bribe--whatever.

Try standing up for yourself like that with a cop in this country and see how far you get. The difference is that Americans are afraid of the government. The Filipino government, on the other hand, is afraid of the people. History and other factors in such countries make it so. It's true of many Latin American, Asian, and African countries.

Ok, thanks, that's a good answer. See? If you gave me an answer, whether good or bad, we can actually have a discussion.

I've been to Philippines too, just not Manila. I agree, in this country most people fear the government and police, but there's plenty of liberty people who've posted videos of themselves standing up to stop and frisk or DUI checkpoints, and left the spot unharassed.

Taking the example you gave, do you believe US vs Philippines, overall, which has better quality of life and less government interference? If you say Philipinnes wins on both, what's stopping you from moving there? There must be something good keeping you here now.

I am willing to entertain that many countries have some aspects of greater freedom or less government in isolated cases or some issues, but overall, US still is the best country to live. I am open to being wrong, last and least, anybody can "prefer" to live wherever he wants, even if it's not the freest country or wealtheist.

[oyarde]

Where do you find a better country? Do tell.

Once I take over the Southern Half of The Land of Indians and expel all commies , socialists , state & Fed govt.'s, free markets will prevail and it will be as before all those undesirables came across.LOL

[Slutter McGee]

I'm seeing a lot of people thinking this will raise prices or is going to cost Walmart a lot.

It might not. Of course I don't have Walmart's numbers on me but their is going to be a definite decrease in the marginal expense of hiring workers as the result of attrition, and a likely increase in marginal productivity. I have no idea if that will offset the cost of paying more but it is certainly going to cut into it.

And increased good publicity may drive up revenues. I seriously don't think Walmart would be doing this if it was't good for their bottom line, and raising prices certainly isn't.

Slutter McGee

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

If you gave me an answer, whether good or bad, we can actually have a discussion.


***

I've been to Philippines too, just not Manila.

If you're trying to convince me that your experience is beyond American beaches and tourist spots, then you're not doing a very good job. Manila is not really a vacation destination.

We already had this discussion anyway. Even at that--why would I discuss such things with you? Most of your "questions" on this forum are just trying to play your pretend libertarian gothcha games.

[PRB]

If you're trying to convince me that your experience is beyond American beaches and tourist spots, then you're not doing a very good job. Manila is not really a vacation destination.

I've been to tourist spots, I've lived in other countries too.

We already had this discussion anyway. Even at that--why would I discuss such things with you? Most of your "questions" on this forum are just trying to play your pretend libertarian gothcha games.

I sincerely don't remember having this discussion, but I won't completely deny the way I deny your claims that you've presented evidence of my lying. Yes, my questions for you are meant for gotcha, the fact you refuse to play tells me you have something to hide or don't know what you're talking about.

Wait, I was just asking YOUR opinion, you can't even answer that? What are you afraid of when you've already made up your mind I'm a pretender?

Oh, why would you have discussions with me or answer my questions? So you can shame and embarass me, impress and educate other readers, but I suppose you'd rather accuse me of lying and then go neg rep happy, that's easier, right?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Yes, my questions for you are meant for gotcha,

Your questions for everyone here are gotchya.

So you can shame and embarass me,

You're the one who said you're on this forum to try to belittle people. You're crying when somebody points it out?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

...I've lived in other countries too.

Where?