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Thread: Is a Rand Paul/Jeb Bush Collision Course Inevitable?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    That's one way to think about it.

    The whole "Scott Walker surge" that we've been seeing lately in the media has been concocted by the Bush's and the RNC. It's a flanking maneuver. "Send in the Irish - they're free" It's an attempt to weaken Rand's support.

    If we're smart, we use the fabrication of Scott Walker to help us. Jump on his bandwagon. Start calling for a Paul/Walker ticket. If they want to inflate his bubble, let them. Eventually, when it pops, we need to be there to benefit from it. Let those supporters find a home. You want the Irish to fight us? Send 'em over and we'll make friends.
    This post should seriously be a sticky at the top of the Rand Subforum.

    If even half of Rand's supporters were this savvy/strategic in their conversations-with/comments-about the other GOP candidate, Rand would have the Social Media/Online War WON well before caucus day in Iowa.

    #CaptUSAFTW



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by WD-NY View Post
    This post should seriously be a sticky at the top of the Rand Subforum.

    If even half of Rand's supporters were this savvy/strategic in their conversations-with/comments-about the other GOP candidate, Rand would have the Social Media/Online War WON well before caucus day in Iowa.

    #CaptUSAFTW
    Rand is introducing legislation that would stop mandatory union dues. If it passed it would wipe the rug from under Walker's feet. And I think that's the plan.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    That's one way to think about it.

    The whole "Scott Walker surge" that we've been seeing lately in the media has been concocted by the Bush's and the RNC. It's a flanking maneuver. "Send in the Irish - they're free" It's an attempt to weaken Rand's support.

    If we're smart, we use the fabrication of Scott Walker to help us. Jump on his bandwagon. Start calling for a Paul/Walker ticket. If they want to inflate his bubble, let them. Eventually, when it pops, we need to be there to benefit from it. Let those supporters find a home. You want the Irish to fight us? Send 'em over and we'll make friends.
    That really is brilliant. They threw more than half a dozen flavors of the week at us last time and we led the charge in shooting them down like they were going somewhere if we didn't. Much better idea--leave those who take a liking to every week's flavor with a nice warm feeling about Rand Paul.

    What have I heard about flies, vinegar and honey? I love it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylcfh View Post
    Jeb is toast after his comments on immigration.
    It didn't stop McCain. The RNC can sometimes bulldoze their choice to the finish line. If enough votes are divided between 3 or 4 candidates, Bush can simply slide by with his ginormous campaign operation in multiple states.
    Last edited by AuH20; 02-18-2015 at 09:35 PM.

  7. #35
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    Someone just posted this. So true btw...

    Just to throw this out there…

    Why is it that the media and the establishment say “Jebs his own man. Pay no attention to his father and brother’s policies” but “Rand is unelectable because he has a nut for a dad”?

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Someone just posted this. So true btw...
    On MSNBC they were talking about Jeb in reference to being his own man. Of course he is they said, but he hasn't laid out any policies or positions that are substantively different. And the entire time they were talking about him there was a golden image with his face and the word "Dynasty".

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uriah View Post
    On MSNBC they were talking about Jeb in reference to being his own man. Of course he is they said, but he hasn't laid out any policies or positions that are substantively different. And the entire time they were talking about him there was a golden image with his face and the word "Dynasty".
    IF Rand is chastised for Ron's comments yet Jeb doesn't receive any flak for the past exploits of George or Daddy, you know the fix is in.
    Last edited by AuH20; 02-18-2015 at 10:10 PM.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    If Jeb can win IA and NH it's all over and Rand will drop out.

    I don't discount the possibility of that happening.
    No fricking way. Jeb is hated in IA and I don't see a Bush doing well in NH.

  11. #39
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    Jeb has South Carolina and Florida in the bag. Both those states are messed up politically. I don't know if it's the swamp water or if they outlawed alternative media?

  12. #40
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    Isn't it true that no GOP candidate has lost South Carolina and won the nomination? Is that correct?



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Uriah View Post
    With so many potential candidates I wouldn't rule out anyone. Romney virtually won Iowa and won NH. If he can do it so can Bush.
    Romney won a weak plurality. The establishment is about 25% of the vote in Iowa the caucus. Bush has huge negatives, worse than Romney. Romney at least pretended on occasion to want conservative votes. Bush spits in the eye of conservatives repeatedly. I think he'll have trouble breaking out of the teens. It wouldn't surprise me to see him be a dud on caucus night like Perry. Romney did well in NH because he was a New England governor.

  15. #42
    Rand will not go third party. Ron did that briefly and came back to GOP and never left again. He learned from the experience and taught his son in the process. I wish we could all learn from history as well.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Jeb has South Carolina and Florida in the bag. Both those states are messed up politically. I don't know if it's the swamp water or if they outlawed alternative media?
    South Carolina might be in the cards for Rand IF he wins Iowa and NH.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by scrosnoe View Post
    Rand will not go third party. Ron did that briefly and came back to GOP and never left again. He learned from the experience and taught his son in the process. I wish we could all learn from history as well.
    Third party talk is a waste of breath.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    I totally agree with you. I was just referring to the fact that you're probably not going to meet many actual Jeb Bush supporters on the street, but his impressive donor list can easily help him overcome the lack of organic grassroots fervor. He can literally buy a grassroots following or least the appearance of one.
    you are right on the money!

  19. #46
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    http://www.kentucky.com/2015/02/18/3...gn-policy.html

    As for Bush's efforts to forge a path of his own apart from his famous father and brother, Paul appeared sympathetic despite recently describing the former governor as a candidate of the past.

    "I think that really it ends up being about the issues and how you present them," Paul said. "And I don't think for him it will be about George Bush the first one or (being) George Bush's brother, but he'll have to answer questions the same way I will about what you stand for — the only individual in front of you who actually would be a candidate. Not somebody's lineage or somebody's past."

    In recent weeks, Paul has criticized Jeb Bush and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for their family ties, using social media to paint them as dynastic dinosaurs.

    But on Wednesday, the senator seemed to soften his tone, saying that Bush will "just have to answer questions like anybody else about the issues."

    "There will always be critics who want to use all sorts of things against you, but ultimately (it's) the individual who runs, not their family," Paul said.


  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    That's one way to think about it.

    The whole "Scott Walker surge" that we've been seeing lately in the media has been concocted by the Bush's and the RNC. It's a flanking maneuver. "Send in the Irish - they're free" It's an attempt to weaken Rand's support.

    If we're smart, we use the fabrication of Scott Walker to help us. Jump on his bandwagon. Start calling for a Paul/Walker ticket. If they want to inflate his bubble, let them. Eventually, when it pops, we need to be there to benefit from it. Let those supporters find a home. You want the Irish to fight us? Send 'em over and we'll make friends.
    Share this page on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/PaulWalker2016

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    If they treat him like they did Ron then I think all bets are off.
    I think it has to be at least in the back of his mind that:

    1. If there is going to be an election anytime soon in which there a third party candidate has a viable shot, it will be in 2016 given that a possible Bush vs. Clinton matchup would be the one most likely to drive dissatisfied voters away from both parties.

    2. If there is one relevant politician with a large enough base following who could be capable of winning a significant enough number of both Republicans and Democrats in a situation like Bush vs. Clinton to be at least competitive, it is Rand Paul.

    I highly doubt this scenario will happen where he would run third party, but who knows how low the GOP will stoop in attacking him during the primaries and who knows what the political/economic/global conditions will be like in a year / 18 months from now.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Isn't it true that no GOP candidate has lost South Carolina and won the nomination? Is that correct?
    Newt won SC

  24. #50
    a Rand Walker ticket would be a disaster. Walker is a great governor, but very pro-war. he wants ground troops to fight ISIS. that should be one litmus test for a VP.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    It didn't stop McCain. The RNC can sometimes bulldoze their choice to the finish line. If enough votes are divided between 3 or 4 candidates, Bush can simply slide by with his ginormous campaign operation in multiple states.


    McCain was part of the reason the Tea Party became such a force. Why do you think Palin became the VP of choice?

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That really is brilliant. They threw more than half a dozen flavors of the week at us last time and we led the charge in shooting them down like they were going somewhere if we didn't. Much better idea--leave those who take a liking to every week's flavor with a nice warm feeling about Rand Paul.

    What have I heard about flies, vinegar and honey? I love it!
    This reminds me of a story in How to Win Friends and Influence People:

    "Mr. O'Haire became one of the star salesmen for the White Motor
    Company in New York. How did he do it? Here is his story in his own
    words: "If I walk into a buyer's office now and he says: 'What? A
    White truck?

    They're no good! I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me. I'm going
    to buy the Whose-It truck,' I say, 'The Whose-It is a good truck. If
    you buy the Whose-It, you'll never make a mistake. The Whose-Its
    are made by a fine company and sold by good people.'

    "He is speechless then. There is no room for an argument. If he says
    the Whose-It is best and I say sure it is, he has to stop. He can't
    keep on all afternoon saying, 'It's the best' when I'm agreeing with
    him. We then get off the subject of Whose-It and I begin to talk
    about the good points of the White truck.

    "There was a time when a remark like his first one would have made
    me see scarlet and red and orange. I would start arguing against the
    Whose-It; and the more I argued against it, the more my prospect
    argued in favor of it; and the more he argued, the more he sold
    himself on my competitor's product.

    "As I look back now I wonder how I was ever able to sell anything. I
    lost years of my life in scrapping and arguing. I keep my mouth shut
    now. It pays.""

    We are salesmen selling Rand Paul. When we "shoot down" other candidates, we only firm the resolve of their supporters. When talking politics, we should try compliment the opposing candidate in the manor that the truck salesman complimented his competitor's product.

    Here's an example:

    Voter: I'm voting for Hillary! Yay!
    Paulite: That neocon, bitch! Do you know how many people died in Benghazi?! What difference does it make?
    <voter still plans to vote for Hillary, but now dislikes Paul supporters, conversation is over>

    Versus...

    Voter: I'm voting for Hillary!
    Paul Supporter: Hey, that's great! What do you like about her? Yeah? You know, it's great that she enabled a whole generation of young women. What a strong person!
    Voter: Are you voting for her?
    Paul Supporter: Well, I've thought about it. It sure would be great to see the first US woman president, but I'm leaning a different way. I like Rand Paul because he really <pick your favorite reason> fought hard against the NSA spying on US citizens.

    * the voter may still vote for Hillary, but the idea of Rand Paul has been presented in a non-threatening way. If a couple more people say things like this to voter, they'll probably google Rand and maybe even switch sides.
    Last edited by limequat; 02-19-2015 at 10:47 AM.
    Non-violence is the creed of those that maintain a monopoly on force.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    a Rand Walker ticket would be a disaster. Walker is a great governor, but very pro-war. he wants ground troops to fight ISIS. that should be one litmus test for a VP.
    I think you entirely missed the point that suggestion.

    On another note,

    +rep Limequat. Everyone, re-read that post.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by limequat View Post
    Here's an example:

    Voter: I'm voting for Hillary! Yay!
    Paulite: That neocon, bitch! Do you know how many people died in Benghazi?! What difference does it make?
    <voter still plans to vote for Hillary, but now dislikes Paul supporters, conversation is over>

    Versus...

    Voter: I'm voting for Hillary!
    Paul Supporter: Hey, that's great! What do you like about her? Yeah? You know, it's great that she enabled a whole generation of young women. What a strong person!
    Voter: Are you voting for her?
    Paul Supporter: Well, I've thought about it. It sure would be great to see the first US woman president, but I'm leaning a different way. I like Rand Paul because he really <pick your favorite reason> fought hard against the NSA spying on US citizens.

    * the voter may still vote for Hillary, but the idea of Rand Paul has been presenting in a non-threatening way. If a couple more people say things like this to voter, they'll probably google Rand and maybe even switch sides.
    To put this in primary terms, do this with every other GOP candidate. They may not agree to support Rand at first, but they haven't been arguing against him either - building their resolve against him. They'll see his supporters as somewhat kindred spirits. And what happens when their favorite candidate drops out of the race? Rand will be an acceptable alternative to their first choice.

    THIS was the lesson of 2012. We had plenty of chances to build coalitions, but instead we tore them down. Cain, Perry, Gingrich, Santorum. By the end of the primary, people who supported those guys hated us. What good is being right if no one can stand you? Here's hoping we are wiser now.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by limequat View Post
    We are salesmen selling Rand Paul. When we "shoot down" other candidates, we only firm the resolve of their supporters. When talking politics, we should try compliment the opposing candidate in the manor that the truck salesman complimented his competitor's product.

    Here's an example:

    Voter: I'm voting for Hillary! Yay!
    Paulite: That neocon, bitch! Do you know how many people died in Benghazi?! What difference does it make?
    <voter still plans to vote for Hillary, but now dislikes Paul supporters, conversation is over>

    Versus...

    Voter: I'm voting for Hillary!
    Paul Supporter: Hey, that's great! What do you like about her? Yeah? You know, it's great that she enabled a whole generation of young women. What a strong person!
    Voter: Are you voting for her?
    Paul Supporter: Well, I've thought about it. It sure would be great to see the first US woman president, but I'm leaning a different way. I like Rand Paul because he really <pick your favorite reason> fought hard against the NSA spying on US citizens.

    * the voter may still vote for Hillary, but the idea of Rand Paul has been presenting in a non-threatening way. If a couple more people say things like this to voter, they'll probably google Rand and maybe even switch sides.
    Whoa wait, so insulting people doesn't persuade them???

    +rep
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Someone just posted this. So true btw...
    "My father drew new blood to the party and woke up the nation to the dealings of the Federal Reserve. Jeb's father and brother furthered our debt, expanded the police state and got America involved in wars it now completely rejects"

    Rand can really pummel them with that during the debates if they choose to go that route.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by LawnWake View Post
    No, no, no, no, no. Please, stop.

    This is an exact repeat of our thinking errors in 2008 and 2012. Everyone said that.... Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, weren't actual frontrunners, but the media just created the "illusion" that they were. But that wasn't an "illusion"; they were actual frontrunners BECAUSE of the media. They actually did pull popular votes because of the media. That wasn't an illusion. The only illusion of 2012 was the one we created, where Ron Paul was a frontrunner. We did it to make ourselves feel better about how poorly Ron was actually doing and it kept us from behaving in accordance with reality.

    All that money can make Jeb Bush an actual frontrunner. Treat him as such.
    It can. Or he can end up like Rudy Guiliani in 2008 or Rick Perry in 2012. Really I don't think Mitt Romney would have won in 2012 if the Ron Paul campaign hadn't run interference for him.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #58
    Please tell me that America isn't dumb enough to elect another Bush. I frankly just can't see it. I think America would elect Satan vs. Bush if that ended up being the general.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by LawnWake View Post
    "My father drew new blood to the party and woke up the nation to the dealings of the Federal Reserve. Jeb's father and brother furthered our debt, expanded the police state and got America involved in wars it now completely rejects"

    Rand can really pummel them with that during the debates if they choose to go that route.
    How many "normal" people have any clue what the Federal Reserve even is. Ron brought new blood to his party, time will tell if they stick around with team Red or not.

  35. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    Please tell me that America isn't dumb enough to elect another Bush. I frankly just can't see it. I think America would elect Satan vs. Bush if that ended up being the general.
    Bush's prospects were DOA until suddenly ISIS popped up.

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