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Thread: Greece 2.0

  1. #1

    Greece 2.0

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greece...161000338.html

    Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras' 10-day-old government has said it will not extend a bailout program due to expire at the end of this month and has refused to cooperate with the so-called troika of international lenders. It has also said it will reverse some unpopular measures imposed by foreign creditors and halt some privatizations, raise the minimum wage, rehire fired public sector workers and restore a bonus for poor pensioners.

    "Greece won't take orders any more, especially orders through emails," Tsipras told his left-wing parliamentary group, denying that he had returned empty-handed from a European tour.

    "In only a week, we won allies that we haven't won in the last five years of the crisis," he said.

    In an apparent reference to the tough stance taken by the ECB and others, Tsipras said: "Greece cannot be blackmailed because democracy in Europe cannot be blackmailed."

    The ECB's decision on Wednesday to stop accepting Greek bonds in return for funds shifted the burden onto Athens' central bank to finance its own banks, dealing a big setback to government efforts to buy time to negotiate a new debt deal.

    The Athens Stock Exchange FTSE Banks Index <.FTATBNK> plunged 22.6 percent initially and ended 10 percent down. Three-year government borrowing costs leapt to nearly 20 percent, leaving Greece utterly shut out of the capital markets.


    cant wait to see the implosion.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



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  3. #2
    For years now the mainstream has been blaming Europe's woes on "austerity" (very minor to entirely fictional cuts in spending and regulation). So, yes, it's going to be fun watching Greece undo the precious few pro-market reforms it managed to achieve, run headlong in the opposite direction, and totally collapse. I'd feel more sorry for the Greeks, except that they voted these idiots into office, so....

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    For years now the mainstream has been blaming Europe's woes on "austerity" (very minor to entirely fictional cuts in spending and regulation). So, yes, it's going to be fun watching Greece undo the precious few pro-market reforms it managed to achieve, run headlong in the opposite direction, and totally collapse. I'd feel more sorry for the Greeks, except that they voted these idiots into office, so....
    No worries, they'll just blame it on the extended effects of austerity and rampant, unchecked spending will continue.

  5. #4


    and throw water on it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #5
    They just need to cancel their debt. That will free up a tonne of the budget on its own, go to the drachma and see where they end up.

    Either way, its not Greece that will be blowing up.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't even a thing nor are capital gains taxes
    Constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    For years now the mainstream has been blaming Europe's woes on "austerity" (very minor to entirely fictional cuts in spending and regulation). So, yes, it's going to be fun watching Greece undo the precious few pro-market reforms it managed to achieve, run headlong in the opposite direction, and totally collapse. I'd feel more sorry for the Greeks, except that they voted these idiots into office, so....
    They had the choice to be run by these Greek Idiots instead of the German Idiots in the EU. I say they made the right choice. They are taking back their sovereignty and I wish them the best.

  8. #7

  9. #8
    Is Greece in debt because they had to bail out their banks bad mortgage securities investments back in 2008? not sure if this is right, but read that the banks in European countries bought heavily into U.S. mortgage securities back then that were given triple A ratings by Moody's, Standard and Poor's, etc. Those securities were toxic but were wrapped in such a way that unless those European banks analyzed them closely, it was difficult to realize this. So they believed the U.S. credit rating agencies and lost everything. And instead of the people in Europe telling the banks to take a hike, the European citizens were made to bail out these banks (similar to in the U.S.). Iceland told the bankers to take a hike so recovered quickly.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post
    Is Greece in debt because they had to bail out their banks bad mortgage securities investments back in 2008? not sure if this is right, but read that the banks in European countries bought heavily into U.S. mortgage securities back then that were given triple A ratings by Moody's, Standard and Poor's, etc. Those securities were toxic but were wrapped in such a way that unless those European banks analyzed them closely, it was difficult to realize this. So they believed the U.S. credit rating agencies and lost everything. And instead of the people in Europe telling the banks to take a hike, the European citizens were made to bail out these banks (similar to in the U.S.). Iceland told the bankers to take a hike so recovered quickly.
    I was telling my Greek relatives to learn from Iceland down when they took it to Brussels several years ago, but back then the media propaganda was government controlled like it is in the USA, Russia, Germany, France, etc, etc, etc, etc

    One positive development in Greece and growing in Italy and Spain is that when general discontent reaches a critical mass, the media propaganda is called out and opposing views are allowed voice.

    My greatest fear however is that when you have an avowed atheist leading a socialistic and nationalist movement, it often times ends very badly...
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  12. #10
    UPDATE:
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/greek...195942855.html

    Syriza's own program includes measures to provide relief for the poor, such as free meals, free electricity and free health care; relief for the middle class by abolishing an unpopular property tax and replacing it with a tax on very large property; and sops to his supporters, such as the abolition of university reform and a re-establishment of the state TV and radio broadcaster that was shut down in 2013 and replaced by a slimmed-down version. But a pledge to raise the minimum wage to pre-crisis levels, once promised as the first measure to be implemented by the government, will be done in two stages and not realized until 2016.

    Tsipras insisted that his government's budgets would be balanced, save for the debt servicing needs. On the debt, while his original demand for a minimum 60 percent "haircut," or write-off, has been rejected by Greece's creditors, he has presented other proposals, such as issuance of low-interest "perpetual bonds," maturity extensions and deferrals of payments that would have the same effect. He said the EU should have no problem accepting his pledges to tackle corruption and tax evasion and reform the state administration.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  13. #11
    So this is how the Syriza party plans on paying for everything.

    Greece has 'moral obligation' to claim German WWII reparations: PM

    http://news.yahoo.com/greece-moral-o...192051560.html

    SIC:

    Berlin has already sounded a firm "no" to requests for reparations nearly 70 years after the end of the war, but Tsipras and his radical left party have vowed to tackle the issue.

    "Our historical obligation is to claim the occupation loan and reparations," the new PM said, referring to Germany's four-year occupation of Greece and a war-time loan which the Third Reich forced the Greek central bank to give it which ruined the country financially.

    Tsipras's anti-austerity Syriza party claims Germany owes it around 162 billion euros ($183 billion) -- or around half the country's public debt, which stands at over 315 billion euros.

    The issue risks aggravating already strained ties between Athens and Berlin, as Tsipras bids to reverse austerity measures imposed by its international creditors.

    The Nazi regime ended up bleeding Greece dry. The loan to the Third Reich was for 476 million Reichsmarks, which was valued at $8.25 billion in a 2012 German Bundestag lower house of parliament report.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



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