Would you marry me if?

[bubbleboy]

Would you marry a person that said they love you but, if you don't love them back they will burn you forever? Or a loving God that says to love your enemies but He is going to burn all His enemies?

If "God is Love" and "Love never fails" then how can God fail to win ALL of His children back from Satan? Or will Satan be the big winner?

[William Tell]

I would never marry someone named bubbleboy. Cuz I like girls.

[fisharmor]

What's love?

[PaulConventionWV]

What's love?

Baby don't hurt me...

[PaulConventionWV]

Would you marry a person that said they love you but, if you don't love them back they will burn you forever? Or a loving God that says to love your enemies but He is going to burn all His enemies?

If "God is Love" and "Love never fails" then how can God fail to win ALL of His children back from Satan? Or will Satan be the big winner?

A very good question. I don't believe in hell as it's taught in the church, so it's not a problem for me.

[jmdrake]

I would never marry someone named bubbleboy. Cuz I like girls.

And I wouldn't want to marry a girl trapped in a bubble either.

[VIDEODROME]

[pcosmar]

This is exactly why I don't like "Fire and Brimstone" preaching.
It sends a the wrong message.

Hell is real.. But it was never intended for man.

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

That was the whole point of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross,, to redeem man.. To save him from the fate of following Satan into hell.

[Crashland]

Would you marry a person that said they love you but, if you don't love them back they will burn you forever? Or a loving God that says to love your enemies but He is going to burn all His enemies?

If "God is Love" and "Love never fails" then how can God fail to win ALL of His children back from Satan? Or will Satan be the big winner?

No I wouldn't marry a person like that. But worshipping them and devoting my life to them, totally

[Southron]

Would you marry a person that said they love you but, if you don't love them back they will burn you forever? Or a loving God that says to love your enemies but He is going to burn all His enemies?

If "God is Love" and "Love never fails" then how can God fail to win ALL of His children back from Satan? Or will Satan be the big winner?

I will take the 3rd and 4th questions.

God has the right to do with His creation as He sees fit. It is not our place to pass final judgment on His enemies. He says vengeance is His.

God does win all His children.

God is love but not to the exclusion of His other attributes. He is also thrice holy.

[mosquitobite]

I agree with the others. I don't believe in a hell of fire and brimstone.

From my understanding through my faith walk, I believe hell to be separation. As in, we've chosen to be eternally separate from God. He loves us, wants us to choose Him, but will not FORCE love. That's how free will comes in. We must CHOOSE Him. Or else, eternally be alone. I think of it as death is nothingness...if we haven't chosen Him. Think of it as an eternal solitary confinement, if you will.

[Crashland]

This is exactly why I don't like "Fire and Brimstone" preaching.
It sends a the wrong message.

Hell is real.. But it was never intended for man.

That was the whole point of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross,, to redeem man.. To save him from the fate of following Satan into hell.

So hell was only intended for fallen angels then? God intended to send rebellious angels to hell, but he didn't intend to send rebellious humans there?

[Crashland]

I agree with the others. I don't believe in a hell of fire and brimstone.

From my understanding through my faith walk, I believe hell to be separation. As in, we've chosen to be eternally separate from God. He loves us, wants us to choose Him, but will not FORCE love. That's how free will comes in. We must CHOOSE Him. Or else, eternally be alone. I think of it as death is nothingness...if we haven't chosen Him. Think of it as an eternal solitary confinement, if you will.

That interpretation is the one that makes the most sense to me, at least, it's the one interpretation that doesn't necessarily make God a God of vengeance and sadistic torture. Although, even if hell is nothingness, it doesn't make sense to me that a just God would impose permanent consequences for temporal crimes.

[pcosmar]

So hell was only intended for fallen angels then? God intended to send rebellious angels to hell, but he didn't intend to send rebellious humans there?

That is my understanding.. Hell was made for those in rebellion. Man can choose (some teach otherwise).
He made a way of escape., and sent Christ to redeem us.

"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

[PaulConventionWV]

I will take the 3rd and 4th questions.

God has the right to do with His creation as He sees fit. It is not our place to pass final judgment on His enemies. He says vengeance is His.

God does win all His children.

God is love but not to the exclusion of His other attributes. He is also thrice holy.

God also cannot lie or contradict Himself, so I wouldn't say this is a question about what He can do, but rather His innate nature. God cannot be both one thing and a completely different thing at the same time in the same sense. The answer, therefore, should be a little more involved than "He has the right to do with His creation as He sees fit."

[mosquitobite]

That interpretation is the one that makes the most sense to me, at least, it's the one interpretation that doesn't necessarily make God a God of vengeance and sadistic torture. Although, even if hell is nothingness, it doesn't make sense to me that a just God would impose permanent consequences for temporal crimes.

It makes sense if you realize your purpose here on earth is to find His love and then to share it with others: true, unconditional love, even for those who don't deserve it. There is great reward, great freedom in this relationship. I can't help but want to share it.

I suppose another analogy is to see this world as a Matrix. Your soul is energy. Feed your soul well, enjoy the reward. Starve your soul of the great energy source, and your battery just dies.

[PaulConventionWV]

I agree with the others. I don't believe in a hell of fire and brimstone.

From my understanding through my faith walk, I believe hell to be separation. As in, we've chosen to be eternally separate from God. He loves us, wants us to choose Him, but will not FORCE love. That's how free will comes in. We must CHOOSE Him. Or else, eternally be alone. I think of it as death is nothingness...if we haven't chosen Him. Think of it as an eternal solitary confinement, if you will.

I personally don't believe in eternal punishment because the punishment must fit the crime. And since none of our crimes are eternal, I don't believe in eternal damnation in any sense, be it fire and brimstone or separation. I don't believe God would punish infinitely for a finite transgression.

[Ender]

I believe that God loves all His children.

AND because He is Supreme Love AND Wisdom, He is smart enough, and patient enough, to receive all of His children in the end.

[loveshiscountry]

Would you marry a person that said they love you but, if you don't love them back they will burn you forever? Or a loving God that says to love your enemies but He is going to burn all His enemies?

If "God is Love" and "Love never fails" then how can God fail to win ALL of His children back from Satan? Or will Satan be the big winner?

I love emotional unstable chicks.

[euphemia]

I would not trust a God who can be remade according to someone's whim. Fortunately, that is not how it works.

[Southron]

God also cannot lie or contradict Himself, so I wouldn't say this is a question about what He can do, but rather His innate nature. God cannot be both one thing and a completely different thing at the same time in the same sense. The answer, therefore, should be a little more involved than "He has the right to do with His creation as He sees fit."

I dont see a contradiction between the command to love our enemies and God taking vengeance on them. I was merely pointing out that it was His right to do so, which is really all that matters. The OP seemed to have a problem with God's wrath in light of His love. Those are two parts of His perfect nature.

[Crashland]

I dont see a contradiction between the command to love our enemies and God taking vengeance on them. I was merely pointing out that it was His right to do so. The OP seemed to have a problem with God's wrath in light of His love. Those are two parts of His nature.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I don't see how love and vengeance/wrath go together.

[VIDEODROME]

I think if redemption is retro-active, and Adam and Eve are saved, then that should nullify Original Sin and we should be off the hook for it.

[Sola_Fide]

Would you marry a person that said they love you but, if you don't love them back they will burn you forever? Or a loving God that says to love your enemies but He is going to burn all His enemies?

If "God is Love" and "Love never fails" then how can God fail to win ALL of His children back from Satan? Or will Satan be the big winner?

This is a very common question in modern times because most churches today teach that the gospel is simply "God wants to have a relationship with you". That is a false gospel. So it is no surprise that these kind of objections spring up. But this objection has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.

What is missing from this entire line of questioning....what is missing in the entire line of thinking. ..is 2 things: his sin and God's justice.

God is holy, and to be with Him, you must be Holy like Him. God will not accept sin in His presence. That is a problem for you, Bubbleboy, because you have sinned and made yourself an enemy of God. It says in the Bible that God is a just judge who will by no means clear the guilty. You are a criminal of the universe and God is the just Judge of this universe. God would not be a just Judge if He did not condemn you for your sins.

THAT is how the Bible explains the beginning of the good news. It starts with the very bad news. And the Bible says that Bubbleboy already knows in his heart he is guilty and about to face his eternal punishment, but will stop at nothing to supress this truth with all his being.

[VIDEODROME]

Maybe God intentionally created Satan and made him fall the same way Sola seems to say God elects some people and others he almost purposefully leaves to wander astray without salvation. Satan wasn't an Elected Angel.

I dunno lol

[Natural Citizen]

God is holy, and to be with Him, you must be Holy like Him. God will not accept sin in His presence. That is a problem for you, Bubbleboy, because you have sinned and made yourself an enemy of God. It says in the Bible that God is a just judge who will by no means clear the guilty. You are a criminal of the universe and God is the just Judge of this universe. God would not be a just Judge if He did not condemn you for your sins.

Hm. Okay, S_F. I have a question. It isn't biblical, though. Every single atom in my body came from a star that exploded. Every one. And so I'm connected to it. In fact, all of us are. And because of that we are all connected to each other. So, then, if we refrain from personifying the universe and assume it to be "God" itself as the ancients understood it to be prior to theology would it be safe to say that when I kick the old bucket that the atoms that make up my conscience just go poof and hitch back up with the cosmos. Heaven, if one wishes?

Now I know that Plato and Aristotle and that brood taughtm en to separate mind from matter and the heavens from the Earth but they were also comfortable in a slave society. The served tyrants. And much of what they taught men is a benchmark in the Church today.

There was some other stuff I was going to ask but *snaps*...I forgot already.

Oh, I remember now. The "You are a criminal of the universe and God is the just Judge of this universe." thing. Now that reminds me of what Plato and Aristotle and those fellers were doing. Again, they served tyranyts. And they were comfortable living in a slave society. It makes me picture in my head of this old guy up on a cloud some place screaming "stop resisting". I don't know. Seems like morality driving order kind of bastardizes order in a way that keeps it relative to mens desire to be central. And so we personify order in the highest magnitude thus minimizing it to our perception of ourselves. Of course, that's another chit chat. I guess so anyway...

[Sola_Fide]

Hm. Okay, S_F. I have a question. It isn't biblical, though. Every single atom in my body came from a star that exploded. Every one. And so I'm connected to it. In fact, all of us are. And because of that we are all connected to each other. So, then, if we refrain from personifying the universe and assume it to be "God" itself as the ancients understood it to be prior to theology would it be safe to say that when I kick the old bucket that the atoms that make up my conscience just go poof and hitch back up with the cosmos. Heaven, if one wishes?

Now I know that Plato and Aristotle and that brood taughtm en to separate mind from matter and the heavens from the Earth but they were also comfortable in a slave society. The served tyrants. And much of what they taught men is a benchmark in the Church today.

There was some other stuff I wasd going to ask but *snaps*...I forgot already.

Well, what you're describing is the ancient pagan religion of pantheism. Pantheism is the belief that God is everything. This religion has been revived in modern times through the scientific priests of our modern age.

All I can tell you is that God and His word stands against all of those pagan conceptions of deity. I can't accept the premise of your question because it is just plainly contradicted by the God who truly exists.

[Sola_Fide]

Maybe God intentionally created Satan and made him fall the same way Sola seems to say God elects some people and others he almost purposefully leaves to wander astray without salvation. Satan wasn't an Elected Angel.

I dunno lol

Yes, God's Word says even the angels are elected:

◄*1 Timothy 5:21

I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

[Crashland]

This is a very common question in modern times because most churches today teach that the gospel is simply "God wants to have a relationship with you". That is a false gospel. So it is no surprise that these kind of objections spring up. But this objection has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.

What is missing from this entire line of questioning....what is missing in the entire line of thinking. ..is 2 things: his sin and God's justice.

God is holy, and to be with Him, you must be Holy like Him. God will not accept sin in His presence. That is a problem for you, Bubbleboy, because you have sinned and made yourself an enemy of God. It says in the Bible that God is a just judge who will by no means clear the guilty. You are a criminal of the universe and God is the just Judge of this universe. God would not be a just Judge if He did not condemn you for your sins.

THAT is how the Bible explains the beginning of the good news. It starts with the very bad news. And the Bible says that Bubbleboy already knows in his heart he is guilty and about to face his eternal punishment, but will stop at nothing to supress this truth with all his being.

God will not accept sin in His presence? I thought God was supposed to be present everywhere in the universe. Not to mention he himself came down to earth and deliberately lived among sinners, and also the Holy Spirit dwells within Christians who still sin. It seems that God doesn't mind so much being around sin when we're still alive, but when we die suddenly it contradicts God's nature to be around sinful things?

Just judges issue sentences that fit the crime. How do libertarians rail against a few years of overkill sentencing for petty crimes, but not have a problem with a different judge issuing an infinite number of years of punishment for crimes that occurred during a human lifetime?

Any sensible person knows in their heart that they are not perfect -- people experience evidence of this every day. The idea that you are about to face eternal punishment though is not self-evident. People who don't believe that aren't suppressing anything.

[Natural Citizen]

Well, what you're describing is the ancient pagan religion of pantheism. Pantheism is the belief that God is everything. This religion has been revived in modern times through the scientific priests of our modern age.

All I can tell you is that God and His word stands against all of those pagan conceptions of deity. I can't accept the premise of your question because it is just plainly contradicted by the God who truly exists.

I knew that you were going to say that. Ah well. Like I said, it probably wasn't a question so much as a comment anyhow.You agree, though, that "God" exists in our minds. Perception or Him or It aside. Right?