Vaccines can cause mental retardation in children?

[Antischism]

lol that hepatitis A statistic is a complete joke. In no way is it possible there has been 91% reduction in mobidity due to people taking hepatitis A vaccines.

There's 91% reduction in morbidity because of dialysis that didn't even exist until after WWII.

30% of American's have Hepatitis A, it causes them no harm, and they have lifetime immunity that the vaccine couldn't even give.

http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-dis...patitis-A.aspx

Is that your only objection to the data?

Sorry, this graph is not evidence of anything. Once again, as with any other medical intervention, if you want to know if it is effective, measure 2 populations WITH THE SAME DEMOGRAPHICS AND DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME, one that has been vaccinated and the other that hasn't, and compare how many individuals of each group contracted the illness that the vaccine is supposed to protect you from.

So you're ignoring the scientific evidence that these vaccines have indeed been effective in nearly eradicating a variety of afflictions? That's a really bold position to take.

[Antischism]

Nick Gillespie over at Irrational just picked an infection of the stupid. He's repeating the "Rand Paul thinks vaccines cause autism" BS started by NBC and Megyn Kelly.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/02/04/is...accine-nut-job

Well, when you make a statement like, "I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," along with championing parental choice, it's not out of the question for people to conclude he was making the case that there's a causal relationship between vaccinations and the nebulous term he chose to use when he said "mental disorders." He then walked back on that and stated he thinks vaccines are safe and vaccinates his own children. Why not just make the "clarified" statement in the first place?

[Antischism]

Since you like charts have you seen the one comparing the decline of childhood illnesses between vaccines and going from the outhouse to having a bathroom in America? Or in other words sanitation. Evidence has actually been shown that the decline in childhood illneses had just as much or more to do with better sanitation. Polio for instance was already on the decline before the vaccination came out. What's also interesting is after the vaccination was introduced there was no increase in the rate of decline compared to previous years. So if there was increase in the decline rate then just how effective was it?

Of course i ain't saying don't take em but at the same time the state shouldn't mandate it..

Can you substantiate that theory? I've seen what you're talking about before, but it was based on misinformation/bad chronology. For example, in regards to Polio and sanitation:

Prior to the 20th century, virtually all children were infected with PV while still protected by maternal antibodies. In the 1900s, following the industrial revolution of the late 18th and early 19th centuries, improved sanitation practices led to an increase in the age at which children first encountered the virus, such that at exposure children were no longer protected by maternal antibodies. Consequently, epidemics of poliomyelitis surfaced . [2]

Ironically, the advanced state of public hygiene in the U.S. and the rest of the developed world contributed to the polio epidemics of the 20th century. Polio is primarily a disease of infants and children. Before public hygiene developments, infants and young children became exposed to poliovirus, but their symptoms were mild and the exposure provided lasting immunity. With the advent of indoor plumbing and modern ideas about hygiene and sanitation, children were not exposed to the poliovirus in infancy and did not develop natural immunity. As a result, outbreaks of polio began to be seen in the mid-1800s. [3]

You can read more about the issue here.

[GunnyFreedom]

[GunnyFreedom]

Well, when you make a statement like, "I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," along with championing parental choice, it's not out of the question for people to conclude he was making the case that there's a causal relationship between vaccinations and the nebulous term he chose to use when he said "mental disorders." He then walked back on that and stated he thinks vaccines are safe and vaccinates his own children. Why not just make the "clarified" statement in the first place?

One can 'conclude' that the moon is made of green cheese too. Doesn't make it true.

Also, Rand was 100% factually correct. Encephalitis and encephalopathy are well known and well documented vaccine side effects.

[Antischism]

One can 'conclude' that the moon is made of green cheese too. Doesn't make it true.

Also, Rand was 100% factually correct. Encephalitis and encephalopathy are well known and well documented vaccine side effects.

You didn't read what I linked you to earlier, perhaps. So I'll do it again:

Encephalitis is a well known and well documented side effect that affects a very small minority of recipients.

You should read this.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Pertussis vaccination has been alleged to cause an encephalopathy that involves seizures and subsequent intellectual disability. In a previous retrospective study, 11 of 14 patients with so-called vaccine encephalopathy had Dravet syndrome that was associated with de-novo mutations of the sodium channel gene SCN1A. In this study, we aimed to establish whether the apparent association of Dravet syndrome with vaccination was caused by recall bias and, if not, whether vaccination affected the onset or outcome of the disorder.

METHODS:
We retrospectively studied patients with Dravet syndrome who had mutations in SCN1A, whose first seizure was a convulsion, and for whom validated source data were available. We analysed medical and vaccination records to investigate whether there was an association between vaccination and onset of seizures in these patients. Patients were separated into two groups according to whether seizure onset occurred shortly after vaccination (vaccination-proximate group) or not (vaccination-distant group). We compared clinical features, intellectual outcome, and type of SCN1A mutation between the groups.

FINDINGS:
Dates of vaccination and seizure onset were available from source records for 40 patients. We identified a peak in the number of patients who had seizure onset within 2 days after vaccination. Thus, patients who had seizure onset on the day of or the day after vaccination (n=12) were included in the vaccination-proximate group and those who had seizure onset 2 days or more after vaccination (n=25) or before vaccination (n=3) were included in the vaccination-distant group. Mean age at seizure onset was 18.4 weeks (SD 5.9) in the vaccination-proximate group and 26.2 weeks (8.1) in the vaccination-distant group (difference 7.8 weeks, 95% CI 2.6-13.1; p=0.004). There were no differences in intellectual outcome, subsequent seizure type, or mutation type between the two groups (all p values >0.3). Furthermore, in a post-hoc analysis, intellectual outcome did not differ between patients who received vaccinations after seizure onset and those who did not.

INTERPRETATION:
Vaccination might trigger earlier onset of Dravet syndrome in children who, because of an SCN1A mutation, are destined to develop the disease. However, vaccination should not be withheld from children with SCN1A mutations because we found no evidence that vaccinations before or after disease onset affect outcome.

If you're saying it's 100% fact that there's a causal relationship between vaccines and encephalopathy, I'd like to see the science on it because the data available, at best, indicates a mere trigger for an early onset.

[GunnyFreedom]

You didn't read what I linked you to earlier, perhaps. So I'll do it again:



You should read this.



If you're saying it's 100% fact that there's a causal relationship between vaccines and encephalopathy, I'd like to see the science on it because the data available, at best, indicates a mere trigger for an early onset.

Oh great, you just 'proved' that vaccines don't ever cause encephalitis, by citing a source claiming that "seizure clusters are going to happen anyway."

[presence]

Is that your only objection to the data?

Certainly not. Are you going to tell me the 99% reduction in deaths from influenza and 83% reduction in Hepatitis B deaths were also due to vaccinations?

If so I'll continue to lol.


While I'm at it... here's your miracle vaccine cure at work on diphtheria:




The vaccine wasn't in widespread use until the mid 1940's.

Clearly it saved the day. Look at all those horrible deaths before the vaccine was invented in 1943... then slam... all of a suddend the diphtheria rate fell off a cliff.

not

lol

[GunnyFreedom]

Certainly not. Are you going to tell me the 99% reduction in deaths from influenza and 83% reduction in Hepatitis B deaths were also due to vaccinations?

If so I'll continue to lol.

The same people whining "Correlation does not imply causation" sure do love to ride that fallacy when it helps them, eh?

[presence]

The same people whining "Correlation does not imply causation" sure do love to ride that fallacy when it helps them, eh?

Its a complete farce for anyone to even begin to imply that flu vaccines have caused a 99% decrease in flu related deaths.

The reason people don't die of crazy diseases anymore isn't vaccines its palliative care, sanitary water, adequate housing, and diet... the same reason ebola is destroying africa but quite managable in 1st world countries.

[rich34]

Certainly not. Are you going to tell me the 99% reduction in deaths from influenza and 83% reduction in Hepatitis B deaths were also due to vaccinations?

If so I'll continue to lol.


While I'm at it... here's your miracle vaccine cure at work on diphtheria:




The vaccine wasn't in widespread use until the mid 1940's.

Clearly it saved the day. Look at all those horrible deaths before the vaccine was invented in 1943... then slam... all of a suddend the diphtheria rate fell off a cliff.

not

lol

Honestly, that was the same rate of decline as all childhood diseases before vaccines were in use...

And don't forget how well the measles vaccine worked in 1985, 87 school kids came down with it ALL vaccsinated. Considering how great it worked here surely you can't say all the data on all the different diseases were wrong?? All my fault they do actually wtf am i thinking??

[Bergie Bergeron]

[rich34]

Hell, anyone ever wonder why they can't make a vaccine for a real killer virus?? I know I've heard many excuses, but now really? Could it be they don't work quite as well as advertised? Of course not..

[rich34]

Sources for this are pretty dubious. The only concrete info I can find is that of the 45 million people vaccinated in 1976, around four hundred and fifty developed the rare Guillain-Barré syndrome (indeed, there appears to have been a causal relationship between that particular vaccination and Guillain-Barré, though the exact reason is unknown). In the case of an actual pandemic or epidemic, this incredibly small amount of instances would have been heavily outweighed by the number of cases of H1N1 it would have protected against. One must note that this vaccine was rushed and the initiative was mostly a result of Gerald Ford's political game (The WHO was actually in favor of a wait and see approach). I don't think it's illogical to be wary of a brand new, rushed vaccine being pushed without much scientific backing in a seemingly political move. The 1976 cases had strikingly similar characteristics to 1918's flu pandemic, which was what caused so much alarm but also a lesson in relying on science and study before jumping to conclusions. Ultimately, comparing that to what we know about the vaccines being administered today is pretty disingenuous because the science is already settled on it with overwhelming data.

Says who in regard to any of the $#@! you said?? Fact is the vaccine killed more people than that flu did. Another fact is untold thousands of people suffered from neurological issues some for the rest of their life.

And aside from that particular vaccine just how proven are they to even work?? What about Texas in 85? 87 get infected with the measles yet all were vaccinated? Actually it happens all the time, but that was essentially the largest with all being vaccinated. Honestly when looking at vaccines objectively the childhood viruses were already on the decline before vaccines were given which should force one to look at better sanitation, hospitals, medicine etc.. rather than say whelp yeah boy them vaccines wiped out all them viruses. BS, that's why these viruses still flourish in countries like Africa because of poor hygiene.. All it's because they don't get vaccines?? I don't buy that.

And the fact is I don't for absolute fact believe anyone is fighting to take away your right to get vaccinated, but your talking points are suggesting you'd be quite fine with the opposite forcing them on everyone else.

[LibertárioBR]

[DamianTV]

If we have a "Right to get Vaccinated", should we also not have the same "Right to NOT be forcibly Vaccinated"?

[GunnyFreedom]

If we have a "Right to get Vaccinated", should we also not have the same "Right to NOT be forcibly Vaccinated"?

A lot of ancaps appear to have a fetish for strapping unwilling people to tables at gunpoint and jabbing them with needles. I would never have expected such a thing.

[jmdrake]

Boom goes the dynamite! Rand Paul must be a wackjob for his outlandish comments.


http://sharylattkisson.com/audio-cdc...link-omission/



Falsifying data? Say it ain't so, Jonas Salk!

Wow! And the group mostly affected was African American males? OMG!

[juleswin]

Isn't it funny how a virus that had been eradicated in the US somehow shows up and the first people the authoritarians point fingers at are the so called anti vaxxers. How can these people re-create a virus out of thin air?

If anything point fingers at the tourists, travelers to areas with an outbreak and illegal immigrants who can come in at the moment without having to get any vaccinations done. But oh no, lets all bash on the tiny minority who are actually anti vaxxers.

[otherone]

It seems this subject causes retardation among people who get sucked into a debate about it if my forum experience is any indicator.

This goes here:

[presence]

lol

my aunt just competed in the 100m snow shoe competition. She forgot to button her snow pants and left her ski poles at the starting line... 50m in... pants around ankles... plop

[presence]

If not vaccines... What new inventions really are saving us from killer diseases?


















Imagine all that cool stuff that pretty much didn't exist in the "pre vaccine era"






oh... and lets not forget:

[jmdrake]

You didn't read what I linked you to earlier, perhaps. So I'll do it again:



You should read this.



If you're saying it's 100% fact that there's a causal relationship between vaccines and encephalopathy, I'd like to see the science on it because the data available, at best, indicates a mere trigger for an early onset.

So let me see if I understand you and the study you are quoting. That study found a link between vaccines and an early onset of certain types of seizures but since the children ultimately had the same IQ regardless of the early onset of seizures there's nothing wrong with early seizures? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

[juleswin]

If not vaccines... What new inventions really are saving us from killer diseases?


















Imagine all that cool stuff that pretty much didn't exist in the "pre vaccine era"






oh... and lets not forget:

This and more. You know I see people like Bill Gates trying to imagine new ways of delivering vaccines to poor people in Africa when he would be doing them a mighty favor by providing them access to clean water and electricity. Even just the boost of immunity you would get from the stress relief knowing that you have those amenities would do more to improve health than any vaccine would do.

But $#@! that, lets spend billions of dollars trying to invent drone vaccines (and yes they are working on that) to deliver vaccines to those poor malnourished people. And I would have mention that not many Africans are dying from malnutrition but the ones dying from diseases like mumps, measles, malaria etc etc are usually malnourished

[angelatc]

And don't forget how well the measles vaccine worked in 1985, 87 school kids came down with it ALL vaccsinated. Considering how great it worked here surely you can't say all the data on all the different diseases were wrong?? All my fault they do actually wtf am i thinking??

I have long ago determined that sane people can't possibly imagine wtf anti-vaxxers are thinking. It's prett clear that math and science aren't their strong suits. While you are technically correct, you forgot to mention that the measles vaccine protocols were changed as a direct result of the 1985 outbreak, in that a booster was added. So no more outbreaks.

As for causation vs correlation, one of the key indicators for me as a lay-person to tell the difference is the ability to make predictions based on previous evidence. With every single vaccine we are discussing, the science predicted that the rate of infections would drop like a stone when the vaccines were introduced. They did. They also predicted that if and when the vaccine rate fell below a certain percent of the population, we would start to see pockets of infections creeping back into our society. We are. Statistically it is only a matter of time before a child in America dies from a disease that is almost entirely preventable.

However, autism rates did not decline when therimosol was removed from vaccines. Nor did they fall in Japan when that country stepped away from the MMR in favor of 3 different shots.

[angelatc]

So let me see if I understand you and the study you are quoting. That study found a link between vaccines and an early onset of certain types of seizures but since the children ultimately had the same IQ regardless of the early onset of seizures there's nothing wrong with early seizures? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

That's true. The grand mal seizures are scary but there is no long term damage.

[angelatc]

Since you like charts have you seen the one comparing the decline of childhood illnesses between vaccines and going from the outhouse to having a bathroom in America? Or in other words sanitation. Evidence has actually been shown that the decline in childhood illneses had just as much or more to do with better sanitation. Polio for instance was already on the decline before the vaccination came out. What's also interesting is after the vaccination was introduced there was no increase in the rate of decline compared to previous years. So if there was increase in the decline rate then just how effective was it?

Of course i ain't saying don't take em but at the same time the state shouldn't mandate it..

Why didn't these diseases all disappear at the same time then, instead of directing correlating with the introduction of the various vaccines? (And actually, polio got worse with indoor plumbing. Science is tricky!)

Polio is eradicated in India - what great advances in hygiene and plumbing have happened there in the past 10 years?

[presence]

Polio is eradicated in India

“Wild” poliovirus may be gone from vaccinated countries, but what was once called “polio,” and frightened the wits out of parents world-wide, is still ubiquitous.
The term “poliomyelitis” is a description of spinal pathology. The meaning of the word comes from Greek:
polios= gray, and muelos =marrow, itis=inflammation; meaning “inflammation of the gray matter of the spinal cord.”
All poliomyelitis means is that the gray matter of the spinal cord is inflamed. This can occur anywhere from the brainstem to the end of the spinal cord, and it has always had many causes, the least of which is a virus that lives in intestines of healthy people.
The result of this inflammation, whether chemical or viral, leads to certain characteristic muscular symptoms that have been conditioned into the minds of several generations of people to appear as the classic atrophied limbs, iron lungs and other horrifying images.
By definition and by historical documentation, these infamous images of polio should by no means be blamed solely on a specific wild-type (naturally occurring) virus. Environmental toxins, other infections, and laboratory-derived vaccine viruses were all implicated in paralytic polio over the years. Yet wild virus, even though it is said to be asymptomatic in 95% of infected, and only causes paralysis in a small amount of infected is the excuse for world-wide polio vaccination with live viruses that are known to cause their own outbreaks of polio in China, Nigeria and India.
- See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20....GZQxZgYb.dpuf

There was very little live polio to begin with. Most of it was other diseases yet unnamed. Yes, vaccine irradicated "wild polio" but as fast as "wild polio" was gone... it becomes clear that it wasn't the primary cause of "polio"

[juleswin]

Why didn't these diseases all disappear at the same time then, instead of directing correlating with the introduction of the various vaccines? (And actually, polio got worse with indoor plumbing. Science is tricky!)

Polio is eradicated in India - what great advances in hygiene and plumbing have happened there in the past 10 years?

Polio is a special case because in fact being a bit playful with your feces (feces to mouth) before the age of 2 will give you a life time immunity against it. But if you miss that opportunity and contract it anytime after that period, you end up with a life long disability.

So yes, apart from polio and maybe 1 or 2 other diseases I cannot think of, having good hygiene will proportionally improve your health

[otherone]

The FDA sez:

Foodborne Illness Is Serious Business

When it comes to protecting yourself and your family from foodborne illness, one of your most effective tools is the kitchen refrigerator. In fact, at room temperature, the numbers of bacteria that cause foodborne sickness can double every 20 minutes! Chilling foods to proper temperatures is one of the best ways to slow the growth of these bacteria.

Foodborne diseases are far more serious than many people realize. The Federal government estimates that there are about 48 million cases of foodborne illness annually–the equivalent of sickening 1 in 6 Americans each year. And each year these illnesses result in an estimated 128,000 hospitalizations and 3,000 deaths.

Salmonella, for example, causes millions of cases of foodborne illness annually and is the leading cause of foodborne deaths.
E. coli O157:H7 is a bacterium that can produce a deadly toxin. Infections from E. coli O157:H7 are estimated to be between 20,000 and 40,000 cases per year.
The Clostridium botulinum bacterium produces a deadly toxin that causes botulism, a disease characterized by muscle paralysis.
Illnesses caused by Campylobacter, noroviruses, Shigella, and other organisms can create severe health problems, particularly for children, the elderly, and people with chronic illness or suppressed immune systems.

People who don't own refrigerators should be JAILED.