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Thread: Statolatry in America

  1. #1

    Statolatry in America

    Statolatry is idolatry of the State. LRC uses the term A LOT.

    I've been talking off and on in several threads about how the Johnson Amendment 501(c)3 leads to statolatry in the American Church. In a FB thread I mentioned how the vast majority of American Christians worship the government in place of God, how the Johnson Amendment creates this kind of blind spot where statolatry is concerned such that they cannot even perceive it, and lo and behold someone completely unaware (thinking they were supporting my OP) of what my comment meant came along and posted this:

    A Christian Declaration of Independence and A Christian Constitution that puts the law of the land at all Christians backs, flanks and fronts...and Christians shouting what will be "will be "let it be ...and God is on His Throne! Never been a nation like us in the liberties of Christ Jesus since the garden of Eden. Look out..because Judgement starts at the house of God `U.S.A. FIRST...and its been here...a whore-monger as President...then 9-11..and now an illegal President and his followers that exalted him and themselves before the world as the godless party...Our Lord is truly merciful...Return to God America/ Repent in Jesus Name "We the People" Christians First !!! ...amen
    Truly astounding.

    Just two comments above that, in reply to someone who had thought I was an Atheist because I do not act all holier than thou trying to enforce the Bible at gunpoint, and was surprised by my OP to learn I was a Christian (I dunno why, it's not like I am all that quiet about it) he said "Really? I'm kinda surprised you're not an atheist.", I had responded with this:

    Very really, Xxx. Indeed, I might even be described as a super Christian. I can, however, understand your reaction. Most American Christians nowadays worship in the state in place of God, and they don't even know it. This makes for a pretty bad testimony. It's gotten to the point where if someone is a Christian, you just assume that the support all the wars and gunpoint compliance and such. I suspect that Jesus Himself will have a bit of a beef with those folks.
    Enter the statolater quoted above to prove my point...

    Notice particularly that the statolater's quote implies that the U.S.A. is "the house of God."

    Seriously. I would give my eye-teeth to repeal the Johnson Amendment.

    The vast, vast majority of Christians in the US are statolaters, and the Johnson Amendment is why. Please, for heaven's sake please, if you are in a 501(c)3 Church, find your way out of it to a different Church that has NOT bent it's knee to the Johnson Amendment!



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  3. #2
    +rep I am blessed to belong to a parish in which the pastor unabashedly opposes aggression against Syria. (it is an Antiochian parish, and Antioch is modern-day Syria.) Plus, many parishioners are native Syrian or only a few generations removed from natives)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    +rep I am blessed to belong to a parish in which the pastor unabashedly opposes aggression against Syria. (it is an Antiochian parish, and Antioch is modern-day Syria.) Plus, many parishioners are native Syrian or only a few generations removed from natives)
    That's outstanding! Glad to hear it. Some congregations may not be having serious problems with 501(c)3....yet. I have become convinced that this will become more and more of a serious problem going forward. This is a big part of the Revelation 18:4 congregation.

    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

    18:1-8 The downfall and destruction of the mystical Babylon are determined in the counsels of God. Another angel comes from heaven. This seems to be Christ himself, coming to destroy his enemies, and to shed abroad the light of his gospel through all nations. The wickedness of this Babylon was very great; she had forsaken the true God, and set up idols, and had drawn all sorts of men into spiritual adultery, and by her wealth and luxury kept them in her interest. The spiritual merchandise, by which multitudes have wickedly lived in wealth, by the sins and follies of mankind, seems principally intended. Fair warning is given to all that expect mercy from God, that they should not only come out of this Babylon, but assist in her destruction. God may have a people even in Babylon. But God's people shall be called out of Babylon, and called effectually, while those that partake with wicked men in their sins, must receive of their plagues.
    forsaken the true God, and set up idols, Check.

    drawn all sorts of men into spiritual adultery, Check.

    by her wealth and luxury kept them in her interest. Check.

    The Whore of Babylon is likely Washington DC. The idolatry is because 501(c)3 makes the churches worship the Whore of Babylon unawares.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Glen
    The Whore of Babylon is likely Washington DC. The idolatry is because 501(c)3 makes the churches worship the Whore of Babylon unawares.
    From what I understand Babylon is Iraq I have heard some "alternative news people" say that some kind of powerful entity was chained beneath the earth in Iraq or Babylon and that GWjr's goal was to unleash it. So maybe the USA is Babylon's bitch...

    I heard also that when we went into Iraq that we sent looters in to the museums to steal many priceless ancient treasures so that they could piece together the ancient advanced technology that even Hitler was after. Some people think there is some kind of portal in Iraq and the elite want it so they can escape earth. Many of the alternative news people say that there is some kind of barrier around earth that will not allow escape from earth and that the portal in Iraq is thought to be a way out for the elite. In my looking into what is going on I may have slipped too deep into the rabbit hole but I can still affirm that I believe Jesus is my savior. It gets kinda scary sometimes I hang on by faith alone. I believe I do not have to wear my love of the Lord on my sleeve because He is in my heart.

    This video is some news blurbs highlighted to make a point:


    This video(below) is the first in a series where Alex Jones interviews Michael Tsarion who has done so much absolutely fearless research into ancient times. The first time I heard Michael Tsarion speak I thought he must be a Christian. I have only heard him admit to that once but he keeps his private life very private and always leads an interviewer back to his work and away from his private life

  6. #5
    The brainwash propaganda programming of generations of America's children in government schools and "statist" churches has definitely taken it's dastardly toll.
    "By their fruits, ye shall know them."

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    From what I understand Babylon is Iraq I have heard some "alternative news people" say that some kind of powerful entity was chained beneath the earth in Iraq or Babylon and that GWjr's goal was to unleash it. So maybe the USA is Babylon's bitch...
    Actual historical Babylon is in Iraq. The passage self-identifies as figurative. Unless Iraq becomes the next global superpower dominating the planet, I don't think we have to worry about Iraq being the whore of Babylon.

  8. #7
    Also, the beast chained under the Earth is off by like 1000+ years.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Actual historical Babylon is in Iraq. The passage self-identifies as figurative. Unless Iraq becomes the next global superpower dominating the planet, I don't think we have to worry about Iraq being the whore of Babylon.
    My SWAG is Rome, more specifically the Vatican.



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  11. #9

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    My SWAG is Rome, more specifically the Vatican.
    Yeah, the best clue that points that way is the seven hills. My problem is that not really many nations have much to do with the Vatican at all. The Vatican would have to be some 1000 x more powerful and affecting for most world 'leaders' to even really pay attention. Mind you, the description could have intentionally been crafted to refer to different subjects at different points in history.

    Regardless, my primary point is the apostasy, and how it is related to the Johnson Amendment. The American church is apostate, the evidence for that is pretty clear. We've all talked about the bizarre reality of warmonger blood-lusting "Christians." I've pointed out how nearly every bizarre anti-christian behavior of the American church today can be explained by statolatry, and how 501(c)3 (which nearly every church in America has) is unambiguous statolatry. Since 95% or more of the churches in America are 501(c)3, almost nobody really wants to deal with the meat of this.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Yeah, the best clue that points that way is the seven hills. My problem is that not really many nations have much to do with the Vatican at all. The Vatican would have to be some 1000 x more powerful and affecting for most world 'leaders' to even really pay attention. Mind you, the description could have intentionally been crafted to refer to different subjects at different points in history.

    Regardless, my primary point is the apostasy, and how it is related to the Johnson Amendment. The American church is apostate, the evidence for that is pretty clear. We've all talked about the bizarre reality of warmonger blood-lusting "Christians." I've pointed out how nearly every bizarre anti-christian behavior of the American church today can be explained by statolatry, and how 501(c)3 (which nearly every church in America has) is unambiguous statolatry. Since 95% or more of the churches in America are 501(c)3, almost nobody really wants to deal with the meat of this.
    Could the Vatican be Satan's hideout? How about Semiramis for queen of Heaven?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Could the Vatican be Satan's hideout? How about Semiramis for queen of Heaven?
    Satan isn't really hiding in this age, and as an angelic-type (demonic) being, he/it doesn't have much use for a 'home' as such. If he needs a physical location to cop a squat for whatever reason, he is more likely to possess a bankster and cause them to foreclose, evict, and fail to sell house(s) in which he can do his business.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Yeah, the best clue that points that way is the seven hills.
    Vatican Hill isn't one of the seven hills of Rome. It's actually across the river from the 7 hills.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Vatican Hill isn't one of the seven hills of Rome. It's actually across the river from the 7 hills.
    Rome proper is even less influential on the rest of the planet than the Vatican.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Rome proper is even less influential on the rest of the planet than the Vatican.
    Not when Revelations was written.

  18. #16
    So pretty much nobody wants to talk about the actual point of the OP?

    Can't say I'm surprised, mind you.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    So pretty much nobody wants to talk about the actual point of the OP?

    Can't say I'm surprised, mind you.
    Give us a hint, what in your mind is the actual point of the OP?

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...58.EmoK7VswXh0

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    So pretty much nobody wants to talk about the actual point of the OP?

    Can't say I'm surprised, mind you.
    You assume in the OP that the pulpit would change it's message if they lost revenue?
    In regards the theocrat you quoted, I see nothing more than polemics. He's a republican, which he believes to be God's party. He assumed you were an atheist because he assumed you were a liberal because you deigned criticize the church.
    In regards idolatry, people worship the law, whether secular or religious.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    You assume in the OP that the pulpit would change it's message if they lost revenue?
    No, I assume their behavior would change if they weren't statolaters. The extra 30 pieces of silver is only incident to that.

    In regards the theocrat you quoted, I see nothing more than polemics.
    Can you really not see the idolatry of the State in his statement?[/quote]

    He's a republican, which he believes to be God's party. He assumed you were an atheist because he assumed you were a liberal because you deigned criticize the church.
    Two totally different people. The guy who thought I was an atheist, is an atheist. The Statolater is not.

    In regards idolatry, people worship the law, whether secular or religious.
    So you cannot see how government regulating speech from the pulpit leads Christians to idolatry of the State?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Give us a hint, what in your mind is the actual point of the OP?

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...58.EmoK7VswXh0
    The Johnson Amendment is driving the American church into the idolatry of the state. Many have succumbed to this idolatry completely unaware, on account of the devious and wicked operation of the Johnson Amendment.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    So you cannot see how government regulating speech from the pulpit leads Christians to idolatry of the State?
    What kind of faith does the pulpit have if it chooses to lead it's people away from God? To me, this is more critical of Christianity than the state.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    What kind of faith does the pulpit have if it chooses to lead it's people away from God? To me, this is more critical of Christianity than the state.
    If they are statolaters, then by leading them to the state, they believe they are leading them to God. Indeed, if the state is their god, then by leading them towards the state, they are in fact leading them towards (a) god. This is why this brand of statolatry is so insidious. The people most responsible for making it happen, actually believe that they are serving God.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    The Johnson Amendment is driving the American church into the idolatry of the state. Many have succumbed to this idolatry completely unaware, on account of the devious and wicked operation of the Johnson Amendment.
    Perhaps they just really need to devoutly pray for deliverance from the Satanic statist evils.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Perhaps they just really need to devoutly pray for deliverance from the Satanic statist evils.
    It's hard to repent from a sin that you are unaware of, or at least that you are unaware is a sin.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Yeah, the best clue that points that way is the seven hills. My problem is that not really many nations have much to do with the Vatican at all. The Vatican would have to be some 1000 x more powerful and affecting for most world 'leaders' to even really pay attention. Mind you, the description could have intentionally been crafted to refer to different subjects at different points in history.

    Regardless, my primary point is the apostasy, and how it is related to the Johnson Amendment. The American church is apostate, the evidence for that is pretty clear. We've all talked about the bizarre reality of warmonger blood-lusting "Christians." I've pointed out how nearly every bizarre anti-christian behavior of the American church today can be explained by statolatry, and how 501(c)3 (which nearly every church in America has) is unambiguous statolatry. Since 95% or more of the churches in America are 501(c)3, almost nobody really wants to deal with the meat of this.
    I think the problem here is identifying any particular place as the literal Whore of Babylon. I think John is calling upon the symbolism of his time to describe a world spanning evil, one whose religion is pleasure and power, sex and violence. Rome was a perfect symbol of this, as Babylon was before it. But the true essence of the Whore is the multi-headed dragon, Satan, who is the heart and mind of state-worship.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    I think the problem here is identifying any particular place as the literal Whore of Babylon. I think John is calling upon the symbolism of his time to describe a world spanning evil, one whose religion is pleasure and power, sex and violence.
    The location/identity of the WoB of course is completely incidental to the point, that the Johnson Amendment has helped to develop and continues to contribute to rampant statolatry in the American church. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the WoB was somewhere on Mars. It wouldn't really change the fundamental argument in the OP.

    Rome was a perfect symbol of this, as Babylon was before it. But the true essence of the Whore is the multi-headed dragon, Satan, who is the heart and mind of state-worship.
    The Johnson Amendment is an expression of pure state-worship, and some 95% of all the self-named Christian congregations in the United States are Johnson Amendment churches. This is an extremely serious problem. One that most Christians are unable to bear to bring themselves to even examine.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I've been talking off and on in several threads about how the Johnson Amendment 501(c)3 leads to statolatry in the American Church.
    With respect, I think you're overreacting. All the amendment does is prohibit churches (along with all other (c)(3) organizations, such as universities, hospitals, and museums) from participating or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office. It doesn't say that a pastor can't criticize a sitting officeholder or talk about important issues. It means that political activity for or against a candidate won't be subsidized by the government.

    There's an interesting article that goes into whether the amendment is unconstitutional or is constitutionally required. The author concludes that neither is the case, and he chides those on both the left and right for being inconsistent on the issue:

    In sum, the Johnson Amendment is neither unconstitutional nor constitutionally required. That leaves one question unanswered, however: Is it a good idea as a matter of policy? Here, liberals and conservatives appear to have lost their bearings.

    In many contexts, liberals oppose the notion that government can constrain speech because it has funded that speech. Consider debates over funding of the arts, the so-called abortion "gag rule," and the Solomon Amendment (which cuts off funding to universities that, pursuant to their anti-discrimination polices, deny campus access to military recruiters because of the "don't ask, don't tell" law). In each of these contexts, liberals have argued that the First Amendment restricts the ability of the government to limit the speech of recipients of public funds. Why are liberals now generally defending the Johnson Amendment against the same argument by the pastors?

    Conversely, conservatives have frequently championed a principle traceable to Thomas Jefferson: the notion that people should not be required to fund the speech of those who disagree with them. For example, conservatives have persuaded the Supreme Court that labor unions may not charge non-union members of their collective bargaining unit for the unions' own "ideological" activities. Why, if conservatives support this principle for unions, do they oppose it for churches?

    The answer to both questions seems obvious. The particular pastors involved in the Pulpit Initiative are religious conservatives who have either endorsed the candidacy of John McCain or opposed the candidacy of Barack Obama, or both. Thus, liberals oppose and conservatives favor their activities.

    Michael C. Dorf, Why the Constitution Neither Protects Nor Forbids Tax Subsidies for Politicking from the Pulpit, And Why Both Liberals and Conservatives May be on the Wrong Side of this Issue
    http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20081006.html

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    With respect, I think you're overreacting. All the amendment does is prohibit churches (along with all other (c)(3) organizations, such as universities, hospitals, and museums) from participating or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office. It doesn't say that a pastor can't criticize a sitting officeholder or talk about important issues. It means that political activity for or against a candidate won't be subsidized by the government.

    There's an interesting article that goes into whether the amendment is unconstitutional or is constitutionally required. The author concludes that neither is the case, and he chides those on both the left and right for being inconsistent on the issue:
    It's irrelevant for non churches, but for churches it's idolatry to allow or agree to the regulation of speech from the pulpit. Idolatry is a BIG DEAL to God. Only God gets to decide what comes out of a pulpit. If a church decides to allow the government to regulate speech from the pulpit, then that church has decided that government is bigger than God. Any church that chooses to place a government above God, is in statolatry. We can see the results of that sin reflected in American Christians everywhere.

    It's not about whether a Church chooses to talk politics or not, it's about whether a Church puts government above God. Accepting the Johnson Amendment places government above God, and churns out monsters who worship the government while believing that they worship God.

  33. #29
    Time and again I hear...

    "This country was founded on Christianity."

    "This is a Christian nation."

    "God bless America."

    "Fight the Godless commies."

    "Kill those Rag heads!"

    Is it any wonder why some Christians equate the state to the religion?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    The Johnson Amendment is driving the American church into the idolatry of the state. Many have succumbed to this idolatry completely unaware, on account of the devious and wicked operation of the Johnson Amendment.
    How does the Johnson Amendment create idolatry?

    How do you deal with the fact that repealing it would give more money to the State?

    Do you really think churches would be less statolotrous were it not for 501c3?
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading

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