Start a concomitant thread asking the same question to people of your belief and report to moderation anybody posting in it who does not believe as you do. The moderation needs something to do. They haven't been earning their pay latelyOriginally Posted by phill4paul
In the past, I've suggested Tagged threads or any method that this kind of intent could be declared and a Closed or Open discussion. I think it's fine if sometimes like minded people want to have a discussion without outside dissenting views intruding. Yet on the other hand, people might be in the mood for debate.Start a concomitant thread asking the same question to people of your belief and report to moderation anybody posting in it who does not believe as you do. The moderation needs something to do. They haven't been earning their pay lately
The Bible doesn't support any political perspective. Don't get caught up in that. I've done it too, and it's depressing. The Bible is the story of how God saves His people, that's it. God saves his people in times of freedom and in times of oppression (and the times of oppression are times Christians should be THANKFUL for because we know that God is exercising His wrath and judgment on the sin of man).
The apostles preached the Christ and Him crucified. That's it. They didn't preach radical political revolution (sometimes the opposite...SUBMIT to the slave masters for the gospels sake).
Politics will never bring you peace. The only thing that will bring you peace in your life is the efficacious atonement of Jesus and justification by faith. When Paul says we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, that is all a man needs for peace. I would live as a slave all my days with that peace. Nothing can shake a man who has peace with God.
The 2nd law of thermodynamics says that things are devolving into disorder. Yet evolutionism says that things are coming into greater and more complex order. How does the 2nd law of thermodynamics confirm your belief in evolutionism?sir, I am a Deist. and yes! I enjoy discussing the singularity.
personally I find peace in the fact that, while the 2nd law of thermodynamics (entropy) is in fact law. (not a theory)
life (energy) persists!!
I do NOT need a book to tell me this true.
sorry, I forgot. I should have noted I was quoting the classical definition.
(the one that existed BEFORE computers)
personally, I find the software based definition to be a absurd distraction.
peace.
wtf? the ONLY reason that I mentioned entropy, was to make it easier to understand.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.
Discussions here should not be akin to septic systems, if this is seen as the case then please flag the thread. As said, we need to earn our keep.
Thank you.
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None? So believing in liberty or belief in fascism doesn't matter? Mind you, I'm not saying that's the gospel, but I do think the Bible is applicable to every part of life.
Why is it depressing? Keep in mind that we're talking about the Bible here, not the present state of affairs.Don't get caught up in that. I've done it too, and it's depressing.
I disagree with the "that's it." I'd agree that that's ultimately the point, but again, I think the Bible is applicable to all of life.The Bible is the story of how God saves His people, that's it. God saves his people in times of freedom and in times of oppression (and the times of oppression are times Christians should be THANKFUL for because we know that God is exercising His wrath and judgment on the sin of man).
I'm guessing I'd agree at least at some level with Lex Rex (We went over a summary of it in a college history class, but I've never read the whole thing, hence the "guess") and I think sometimes its OK to overthrow an unjust government. But before doing that I think other things would have to be taken into account, including losses of human life, chance of success, and potential harm to the gospel.The apostles preached the Christ and Him crucified. That's it. They didn't preach radical political revolution (sometimes the opposite...SUBMIT to the slave masters for the gospels sake).
I know this and I have this. When I say "philosophical quagmire" I'm dealing with an important secondary issue as a side topic. I wasn't referring to the gospel, which I have and always will have.Politics will never bring you peace. The only thing that will bring you peace in your life is the efficacious atonement of Jesus and justification by faith. When Paul says we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, that is all a man needs for peace. I would live as a slave all my days with that peace. Nothing can shake a man who has peace with God.
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This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.
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Another thing I realized this evening, that I am happy to engage nonbelievers when we can support each other in our respective journies. Freedom people have got to find common ground and a unified message if we are to have an impact on this country.
#NashvilleStrong
“I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi
me and my big mouth, and speaking of absurd distractions..
hi HB!
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.
Most Christians worship the government as though it were god.what I CANNOT figure out.
is that we have a plethora of Christians here who are clearly dedicated to Liberty..
how do I reconcile that. with the MAJORITY who do not?
I have never had that hope.
one of my reasons for supporting Dr Paul was that he would have disengaged this county from the Mideast.
There is no stopping what is to come. (delaying perhaps, but not stopping)
This land has no place in what is to come,, i was hoping we could disengage voluntarily.
We will be removed from the picture one way or another. The US will cease to be an active player.
The hope that we could exit voluntarily is past. We will be removed.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Seriously.
Can't say I've ever seen anyone avow that biology is subject to the laws of thermodynamics under any circumstances this side of spontaneous combustion.
Seems to me the law of gravity has more of a bearing on biology than thermodynamics.
Does Thermodynamics have a bearing on Peace?
Well. I don't want to venture too far outside of the purpose of the thread but since you brought this up I'd contend that what you're saying isn't exactly true in so far as you go with it. It could certainly be said that creationists make the argument that you're making in a way that is premised upon their interpretation of the relationship between probability and entropy.
I can almost swear that we have a thread on this around here some place. Should maybe dig it up.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 01-29-2015 at 11:24 PM.
Are peace and order mutually exclusive? Now that's an honest question. Order seems subjective these days.
Believe me, I've been where you are. I went to a Christian college and I was ardent to find the key to unlocking the code of freedom contained in the pages of the Bible. Back then I was an ardent Reconstructionist...and I could argue anyone into the ground. When I was a sophomore I met Andrew Sandlin and Steve Schlissel and they were so impressed by me they gave me a huge stack of Rushdoony books for free so that I could carry on the political message. Boy how times have changed.
My only advice is: learn from me. Because of my political idolatry I pushed myself away from the gospel, my peace. Politics and governments and theories and everything else is going to, in the end, roll up like a scroll, and the only thing that will be left is myself standing before God giving an account of my life. Thank God for my Jesus, my perfect Substitute, who imputes His perfect righteousness to my account and takes my sin on Himself so that I can stand before a holy God on that day.
Last edited by Sola_Fide; 01-29-2015 at 11:14 PM.
I don't remember where it was. I recall discussing macro evolution but don't remember why. It had to have been in the religion section. It's kind of funny that the best discussion on science comes from the religion section if you think about it. Heh...Pretty sure we do. Feel free to bump it. It's an interesting topic.
the 2nd law. simply states that hot flows to cold. this is how we move heat as defined by the first (classical law)
"energy", kinetic or otherwise, ALWAYS flows from higher to lower.
getting water to flow uphill will not happen. when you pour water on a table.. how does it "know" to flow to the lowest point?
Newton defined Gravity on this Earth only.
Hubble proved this fact to Einstein.
Einstein said .. $#@!, went back to the drawing board...
and came up with lambda. (the cosmological constant)
and every since that time.
we have been searching for dark matter.
peace.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.
Srsly? Google it. Physics is interesting.
This is actually part of why I'm moving away from strict anarcho-capitalism. In an odd sort of way, it either requires almost total political apathy or total political immersion, neither of which do I think are good things. What does Christian justice look like? You can take a pacifist position and say there's no such thing. You can take a minimal government position and say that the State's only job is to uphold justice. But to take an ancap position basically requires that ANYONE can execute justice: essentially, it logically leads to Chris Cantwell type conclusions, which is why I'm starting to reject it.
Beyond that, though, I'm not entirely sure I get your point. Are you setting up a dichotomy between not caring about politics at all and idolizing them? Are you setting up a dichotomy between belief that the Bible actually has something to say about politics and idolizing politics?
Why do politics and the gospel have to be mutually exclusive?
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I know you're not asking me, but I'll jump in-it's because the State is a satanic institution. (Romans 13 is so qualified a statement that no State can live up to it.)
I welcome anybody's imput. I'm specifically curious about Sola's position because he claims he did the same thing that he thinks I'm doing, but that doesn't mean I don't want other opinions as well.
I just don't see enough Biblical evidence of this. The radical egalitarianism that anarcho-capitalism requires (not of wealth but of office) is foreign to the Bible. There were several Old Testament Kings that were good. Proverbs 29:2 says that there is peace when the righteous rule (by contrast, anarcho-capitalism says it is evil if ANY man should rule.) I completely agree that power corrupts, really easily. I don't even disagree that ancap would be, practically speaking, substantial improvement to what we have (although I think any route that would get us there would either lead to limited government first, or would be a means that is far worse than the end is good). But I just don't see any evidence in the Bible that all government leaders are evil, in fact, I see far more evidence that there are good ones than not (note: I am not saying that there are more good government leaders than bad ones. I am saying that there is more Biblical evidence that not all government leaders are evil than the inverse, and that ancap requires the inverse.)
-it's because the State is a satanic institution. (Romans 13 is so qualified a statement that no State can live up to it.)
This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading
Sure there were a small handful of good OT Kings. Rather than pointing out the extreme flaws in the good ones, I'll posit a more logical approach and say 1Kings8 takes precedence. The existence of any good Kings are predicated on a sinful desire for a worldly King in the first place.
The few leaders we can call "good" in the bible had direct contact with God the father. And as ancaps have explained it to me, they are not opposed to "leadership" per se as involuntary/coercive systems, like the State. Even the Molyneuxs and Walter Blocks of the world agree that there is a place for authorities in matters of criminal justice and contract enforcement.
As far as evidence for earthly governments being evil, I need to get back to you on that, I gtg to sleep.
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