Should non-citizens vote? Is ID a requirement?

[TommyJeff]

I have a three part question and since they are not all directly linked I hope there aren't too many tangets.

1) is has been proposed in some areas that non-citizens who are here perminantly, be given the right to vote in local elections: where do you stand on this issue?

2) depending how you answer #1, would you open the elections to non-citizens who are not here perminantly?

3) does the requirement of using an ID card to be able to vote appeal to you or not?

[euphemia]

Citizens vote. It is their right. Proving one's identity in order to vote is not a violation of rights.

[DamianTV]

The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.

- Charles Bukowski

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

- Winston Churchill

Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.
- Plato

Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.

- John Adams

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

- Mahatma Gandhi

" . . . democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

- James Madison

... and to the Republic for which it stands ...

The Founding Fathers did everything in their power to prevent us from having a Democracy. When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Congress in 1787 a woman asked "Sir, what have you given us?" to which he replied "A Republic Ma'am, if you can keep it.

The idea that Non Citizens should vote is based on the concept that the United States is a Democracy. It is not. It was designed to be a Republic with some Democratic traits and characteristics. The actual voting was done by those who were most educated on the matters at hand and not those who sought to rewrite the laws to their favor, the Representatives. Now I could go on with this all damn day, but I'll keep this short. It doesnt matter whether Illegals are allowed to vote, as addressed in another thread of yours, we will do as much damage as any Illegal voting population could ever do at the Ballot Box.

He who votes has no power at all. He who counts the votes has all the power in the world.

Its not that I have something against voting. I do have something against the Illusion of Choice that people continue to fall for time and time again. But lets address your topic, at last. Should Non Citizens vote? Citizens of what? Citizens of Ohio vote in California Elections? Yeah, Im gonna have to go with NO on this one. And for the record, people that live in Washington DC, the ordinary people, not the Puppet Politicians in the District of Criminals, they are not considered to be State Citizens, but US citizens, so it depends greatly on your defentions and perspectives.

[pcosmar]

I have a three part question

All you have posted are questions.

Do you have any actual opinions or positions of your own?

Pretty much all of the questions have been discussed, Have you ever read this forum?

[pcosmar]

All you have posted are questions.

Do you have any actual opinions or positions of your own?

Pretty much all of the questions have been discussed, Have you ever read this forum?

Do YOU think that foreigners should be allowed to Vote?

[DamianTV]

Do YOU think that foreigners should be allowed to Vote?

I DO think they should be allowed to vote. In their own country and each respective State of that Country.

---



The Essence of Freedom is the Proper Limitation of Government.

[tod evans]

I think that any citizen who has received a check from government in the past year should NOT be permitted to vote.

This would include payroll and pensions, welfare, SSI, medi-care-aid-etc,student "loans", fannie/freddie mac "loans", any and all employees of "businesses" whose income is 35% or more from government contracts, farmers who accept "aid" and on and on.

The few thousand of us remaining might vote in someone who'd do something different even if "different" just means changing the payee line on all those checks...


[edit]

I'd add to the above by permitting anyone released from prison, not jail, to have their vote count 1-1/2 times for two years after their release unless they're re-incarcerated...

Reason being, nobody knows the inner workings of a government better than those who have been subjugated by it.

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[TommyJeff]

All you have posted are questions.

Do you have any actual opinions or positions of your own?

Pretty much all of the questions have been discussed, Have you ever read this forum?

Citizens of a county should be the only ones dictating the direction of that government.
If ID proof is required to avoid the perversion of such an election process, so be it.

[Ronin Truth]

Nope!

Absolutely!

[Ronin Truth]

All you have posted are questions.

Do you have any actual opinions or positions of your own?

Pretty much all of the questions have been discussed, Have you ever read this forum?

Perhaps he's just gathering evidence in order to build a case.

[TommyJeff]

... and to the Republic for which it stands ...

The Founding Fathers did everything in their power to prevent us from having a Democracy. When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Congress in 1787 a woman asked "Sir, what have you given us?" to which he replied "A Republic Ma'am, if you can keep it.

The idea that Non Citizens should vote is based on the concept that the United States is a Democracy. It is not. It was designed to be a Republic with some Democratic traits and characteristics. The actual voting was done by those who were most educated on the matters at hand and not those who sought to rewrite the laws to their favor, the Representatives. Now I could go on with this all damn day, but I'll keep this short.

I wish you didn't keep it short - id really like to dive into this topic further. Maybe you were right to keep it short as this subject could move off the OP topic. Would you care to open a new discussion for a more lengthy post? If you start it please share a link or direct me to start one.
I will ask this - are we (were we intended to be) a republic or a democratic republic? If its the latter, does that not imply we were intended to have a vote?

[TommyJeff]

I think that any citizen who has received a check from government in the past year should NOT be permitted to vote.

An interesting idea. Correct me if im wrong, but didnt the founders intend for only land owners to vote?

[otherone]

I have a three part question and since they are not all directly linked I hope there aren't too many tangets.

1) is has been proposed in some areas that non-citizens who are here perminantly, be given the right to vote in local elections: where do you stand on this issue?

2) depending how you answer #1, would you open the elections to non-citizens who are not here perminantly?

3) does the requirement of using an ID card to be able to vote appeal to you or not?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

If government actually exists to protect our Rights, it wouldn't matter who voted. But as it stands, every time you select a candidate that in any way diminishes my Rights, you take yet another chunk of my Liberty away.
Frankly, I doubt the veracity of that founding document. It's becoming apparent that their sole objective was to replace a foreign oligarchy with a native one; claiming that a divinely-authorized "popular sovereignty" to be morally equal to the Divine Right of Kings.

[Ronin Truth]

How about only taxing the voters? (That might put a major kink in voter turnout. )

[TommyJeff]

How about only taxing the voters? (That might put a major kink in voter turnout. )

Wasn't this already attempted?

[tsai3904]

There is a city in Maryland, Takoma Park, that allows non-citizens (and 16 year olds) to vote in municipal elections. I believe it is the only city in the country that allows this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...gBS_story.html

[Ronin Truth]

Wasn't this already attempted?

Not that I'm aware of. Are you thinking of only letting taxpayers vote?

My idea only taxes voters. They want it, they get to pay for all of it.

[otherone]

My idea only taxes voters. They want it, they get to pay for all of it.

I'd vote for that!

[tod evans]

An interesting idea. Correct me if im wrong, but didnt the founders intend for only land owners to vote?

Land owners back then paid government, they weren't paid BY government.

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

All you have posted are questions.

Do you have any actual opinions or positions of your own?

Pretty much all of the questions have been discussed, Have you ever read this forum?

An interesting idea.

You know what's really interesting, TommyJeff? It's interesting that you ask a lot of very elementary questions, but you also seem to be very well-versed in these subjects. What is your background? It's sounds like you have a legal background. Did you ever work for an attorney or in a legal field?

Anyway, welcome to the forum!

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

...id really like to dive into this topic further. Maybe you were right to keep it short as this subject could move off the OP topic. Would you care to open a new discussion for a more lengthy post? If you start it please share a link or direct me to start one.

We do have some very lengthy discussions here. Threads can go multiple pages, so I would like to hear what a new member like yourself thinks about these subjects. Feel free to make a lengthy post of your own. Bouncing around from thread to thread can be confusing, so maybe just make it right here. Welcome again to the forums!

[TommyJeff]

Not that I'm aware of. Are you thinking of only letting taxpayers vote?

i was talking about the poll tax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_ta...ited_States%29

[TommyJeff]

What is your background? It's sounds like you have a legal background. Did you ever work for an attorney or in a legal field?

Anyway, welcome to the forum!

I am in the medical field. never worked in the legal field, though I have read the Constitution more than once and dabble in the law as a bit of a hobby. how about you NCL?

[jllundqu]

All you have posted are questions.

Do you have any actual opinions or positions of your own?

Pretty much all of the questions have been discussed, Have you ever read this forum?

I've asked TommyJeff to elaborate on his own positions in several threads... won't do it. Get the feeling he (she?) is either a student doing some lame trolling, or something similar. Just questions questions questions..... never any dialogue...

Come on TJ.... tell us who you really are... I've got a sack of troll bait for ya!

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Come on TJ.... tell us who you really are...

I'm guessing he's ZippyJuan, PRB, TheCount, or some other such progressive liberal. Regardless of who--he's obviously trying to accumulate as many posts as possible, as indicated by his multiple threads and pithy replies. He says things like this:

I wish you didn't keep it short - id really like to dive into this topic further.

,

The trouble is that he never dives into a topic.


The indicator that he is trying to accumulate posts is here:

I enjoyed your post. If this takes the OP too far off topic we can start a new one.

AND HERE:

Would you care to open a new discussion for a more lengthy post? If you start it please share a link or direct me to start one.

Who in the world talks like that? LOL.



He says he's private, but initiated five friend requests in his first three days here. Makes himself look legit.

TommyJeff is a sock puppet account. I'd guess he wants to use it to + rep his other account because ZippyJuan, PRB, and TheCount have been neg repped a lot lately, and it's only a matter of time before their bar turns red. These guys are paid Democrat trolls. They know that a green bar gives them legitimacy. People will dismiss them with a red bar.

I made another post about how they want to shut down the site. I'm positive of that, but too bad for them because they're doing a lousy job.

Work harder, you knuckleheads! LOL

[paleocon1]

I have a three part question and since they are not all directly linked I hope there aren't too many tangets.

1) is has been proposed in some areas that non-citizens who are here perminantly, be given the right to vote in local elections: where do you stand on this issue?

2) depending how you answer #1, would you open the elections to non-citizens who are not here perminantly?

3) does the requirement of using an ID card to be able to vote appeal to you or not?

1) ABSOLUTELY NOT!

2) HELL NO!!

3) Yes, Voters need to produce trustworthy ID.