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Thread: Vapers of the Forums, unite! :D

  1. #1

    Vapers of the Forums, unite! :D

    So I'm off of analog cigarettes since mid December, and feeling great!

    Tried vaping before, and either the rig was crappy, the battery not solid enough, the tank not very good, or the juice was harsh. I used to vape only for situations where cigarettes were impractical.

    In December, I went and got a better tank, a decent battery, and found a couple of good e-juices and suddenly it worked as a full time replacement.

    So I'm kicking off this thread for vapers to talk equipment and liquids, and maybe that will help others do the same. I'm seriously feeling better than I have in years, maybe more than a decade, so I'd love it if others could feel better too.

    my current rig is as so:

    Battery:

    Eleaf iStick, adjustable battery, pick volts or watts. I usually keep it at very low power, 6.8W 3.7V and the battery lasts forever. A little more bulky than the round batteries, it's been totally worth it. A consistent vape that doesn't die on me at the worst time, and if it does, it allows 'passthrough' charging so you can plug it up and still hit the vape. For those of another persuasion you can even bump up to 4.2V and hook up a cloupor cloutank.



    http://www.eleafworld.com/product/de...af-istick.html

    Tank:

    I started with one of those self-contained tanks-in-a-mouthpiece with a sponge like material that wicked the juice against a burner which didn't work very well and didn't last long, and went to a tank that had fiber string that wicked the juice into a contained burner that worked a lot better but still didn't quite cut it. Now I'm using the KangerTech EVOD2



    No listing on the KT website, so it appears they've move on to bigger and better tanks, but I'm a fan because this thing us durable as all get out. No fiber wicking, it's all metal, and comes completely apart for cleaning maintenance etc. Atomizers are easy to get and replace. And it's inexpensive.

    E-Juice:

    I've tried a bunch of different e-juices, and there is a wide variety from horrid to great. Before I could never have gotten into vaping full time, then I switched to a couple of brands that really did it. I didn't even realize how much of a difference there was until I ran out one day and tried some of the old crappy stuff. Yuck!

    So far in my #2 spot, is "The Steam Co" E-Liquid http://www.thesteamco.com/collections/e-liquid

    The liquid is technically very high quality and reduced the 'burn' a lot, which makes it great. Major issue I have with this brand is their flavors are just...weird. Tried a couple, never really got into the flavor. If I found a flavor I liked, I might like it better, but still it's miles ahead of most other brands I've tried.

    And my current favorite is "Baker White." I've been able to drop down from 24mg to 18mg in just a month. Great flavor less burn. Currently vaping Pina Colada. http://www.bakerwhiteinc.com/our-flavors.php

    Anybody else made the transition from analog cigs to full-time vape? How did you make it work, and what equipment/liquids do y'all like?



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  3. #2
    Another thing that helped me make the switch away from analogs, was a little bit of knowledge. Apparently the nicotine uptake is a more gentle curve than an analog. Instead of blood nicotine concentrations spiking up like a rocket within 3-5 seconds on the first puff, it picks up gently over 40-ish seconds to the same place. Just that knowledge alone helped me to 'understand' how it was working, and instead of expecting a 3 second smack in the face and getting disappointed, now I expect a 40 second gentle rise and I'm as happy as can be.

  4. #3
    Meh, I will stick with my cigars. Much more better.
    "I know the urge to arm yourself, because that’s what I did. I was trained in firearms. When I walked to the hospital when my husband was sick, I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out I was going to take them with me."

    Diane Feinstein, 1995

  5. #4
    I thought the title was misspelled and had something to do with "the vapors."
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    I thought the title was misspelled and had something to do with "the vapors."
    LOL I know, "vapers" is flagged by the spellcheck, but I still think it's the correct construction for the context. New thing, new words.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    I thought the title was misspelled and had something to do with "the vapors."
    Vapor and Smoke..
    it's a ninja thing.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    I thought the title was misspelled and had something to do with "the vapors."
    I happen to live in the valley of the vapors. and I concur with the OP.
    your grammer nazi cred, is debunked..

    http://www.valleyofthevapors.com/news/
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  9. #8
    All u smoker nogoodniki r reported to Big Sister and the Surgeon General.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  11. #9
    I wonder why e-cigs took so long to become popular? They are obviously a great alternative to paper/solid cigarettes.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I wonder why e-cigs took so long to become popular? They are obviously a great alternative to paper/solid cigarettes.
    (psst, they were invented by the Chinese)

    probably by whou duk lo. or long dong chang..

    I like Gunnys term... "analog" cigarettes.
    Last edited by HVACTech; 01-26-2015 at 11:06 PM.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I wonder why e-cigs took so long to become popular? They are obviously a great alternative to paper/solid cigarettes.
    I enjoy tobacco. Cigarettes are an alternative to a good cigar.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I wonder why e-cigs took so long to become popular? They are obviously a great alternative to paper/solid cigarettes.
    It took a while for companies to get to the point where they were putting out a consistent product. Smokers don't switch brands unless there are issues with price/availability, and now they are in the gas stations, cheaper than the tobacco products.

  15. #13
    After 50 years of smoking and a stroke (minor), I'm done.

    Now how do I go about getting all of my wasted money back?

  16. #14
    I quit smoking more than 12 years ago. I still miss it.

    I had a friend visiting that had one of these contraptions so I decided to try it out. I was impressed. So much so that I wanted to start "vaping". My wife advises against it. And when I say, "advises", I mean I guess I won't be buying any e-cigarettes.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  17. #15
    I vape hard core and I really enjoy it. A good tank and keeping a good coil in, is a must. I rotate batteries (I have three) and was thinking about getting one of the batteries in the original post. What are ball park prices for them?
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    For those of another persuasion you can even bump up to 4.2V and hook up a cloupor cloutank.
    A recent study linked higher voltage to triggering a large increase in formaldehyde production; be cautious there.

    Also... I would stick to 100% vegetable glycerine NEVER propylene glycol based vape solution for the same reason.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...




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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    A recent study linked higher voltage to triggering a large increase in formaldehyde production; be cautious there.

    Also... I would stick to 100% vegetable glycerine NEVER propylene glycol based vape solution for the same reason.
    Virgin Vapor
    http://www.virginvapor.com/
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    A recent study linked higher voltage to triggering a large increase in formaldehyde production; be cautious there.

    Also... I would stick to 100% vegetable glycerine NEVER propylene glycol based vape solution for the same reason.
    I'm pretty confident that a cloupor cloutank when ised as intended, is not going to produce formaldehyde at any voltage. As to PG vs VG yeah, I lean very heavily towards VG.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    I vape hard core and I really enjoy it. A good tank and keeping a good coil in, is a must. I rotate batteries (I have three) and was thinking about getting one of the batteries in the original post. What are ball park prices for them?
    Under $40 to be sure. I think I paid $33 at a store that the guy was trying to move his stock. Here is one I found for $37

    http://www.aromavapes.com/eLeaf-iStick-20W_p_355.html

    Apparently buying in lots of 30 to 100 will drop the price to $29.95 - $27.23 so that's why the price is so variant.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    I vape hard core and I really enjoy it. A good tank and keeping a good coil in, is a must. I rotate batteries (I have three) and was thinking about getting one of the batteries in the original post. What are ball park prices for them?
    Nice thing about this battery is not that it'll go up to 5.5V at 15-20W, but that at low voltages (which any ordinary battery can do) it will last a loooong time, and it can be used while recharging. Even charging in a car, or charging off of your laptop and such. I used to use multiple batteries too, not anymore. Now if I'm going to be out and about for any significant amount of time I just make sure to bring the USB cable and I already have a USB charger in my car for my phone. Zero issues.

  24. #21
    You are a den of vapers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing fist down on the table) I will rout you out!
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Haven't tried them yet. The brick & mortar I go to doesn't carry it yet. I did notice that a lot of their liquids are PC/VG blends, which is the same as the premium liquids I get. I do believe the VG causes the PG to vape at a lower temp before it forms any negative volatiles, so while PG alone is bad, a PG/VG blend is almost as good as VG alone.

    The store I frequent does have a VG-only liquid, but whatever dingbats make it thought it would be a good idea to add multivitamins to the liquid. I guess "If you are going to vape may as well make it good for you" or something. The multivitamins make it taste like drek lol.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    You are a den of vapers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing fist down on the table) I will rout you out!
    Calm down there Hamalton, my eliquid is not fiat.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Haven't tried them yet. The brick & mortar I go to doesn't carry it yet. I did notice that a lot of their liquids are PC/VG blends, which is the same as the premium liquids I get. I do believe the VG causes the PG to vape at a lower temp before it forms any negative volatiles, so while PG alone is bad, a PG/VG blend is almost as good as VG alone.

    The store I frequent does have a VG-only liquid, but whatever dingbats make it thought it would be a good idea to add multivitamins to the liquid. I guess "If you are going to vape may as well make it good for you" or something. The multivitamins make it taste like drek lol.
    When you decide what flavor you want there is a window that asks, would you like 100% VG or a 50/50 blend.

    I vaped glycerin based colloidal silver and a glycerin based herbal tincture when I started feeling sick before Christmas. The next day I was fine.
    Last edited by donnay; 01-27-2015 at 04:55 PM.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    I thought the title was misspelled and had something to do with "the vapors."

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    A recent study linked higher voltage to triggering a large increase in formaldehyde production; be cautious there.

    Also... I would stick to 100% vegetable glycerine NEVER propylene glycol based vape solution for the same reason.
    The Truth Behind the Formaldehyde Scare

    http://blog.mtbakervapor.com/the-tru...ldehyde-scare/

    Recently, a study was published in the New England Journal of Medicine regarding the existence of formaldehyde in e-cigarette vapor. In fact, based on the conclusions stated in this study, e-cigarette vapor may contain more formaldehyde than traditional cigarette smoke. However, is that the whole story?
    Let’s start by taking a look at the findings from the New England Journal of Medicine -
    “Formaldehyde is a known degradation product of propylene glycol that reacts with propylene glycol and glycerol during vaporization to produce hemiacetals. In many samples of the particulate matter in ‘vaped’ e-cigarettes, more than 2% of the total solvent molecules have converted to formaldehyde-releasing agents, reaching concentrations higher than concentrations of nicotine. Here we present results of an analysis of commercial e-liquid vaporized with the use of a ‘tank system’ e-cigarette featuring a variable voltage battery. At low voltage (3.3v) we did not detect the formation of any formaldehyde-releasing agents. At high voltage (5.0v), formaldehyde was detected as formaldehyde-releasing agents. Extrapolating from the results at high voltage, an e-cigarette user vaping at a rate of 3ml per day would inhale 14.4mg of formaldehyde per day in formaldehyde-releasing agents. One estimate of the average delivery of formaldehyde from conventional cigarettes is approximately 3mg per pack.”
    To summarize what this study is saying – at 3.3v of a standard variable voltage tank system e-cig, no formaldehyde was found. However, at 5.0v of the same system, formaldehyde-releasing agents were found at over 10 times the amount found in traditional cigarettes. Now, on first inspection, this sounds really bad for vaping. Yet, there are additional factors that need to be considered when looking at this study.
    In a Tobacco Analysis article titled The Rest of the Story the authors bring up an interesting, and pivotal point regarding the evaluation of the results of this study -
    “There’s just one problem with the study, but the problem renders it’s conclusions invalid. The conditions used to study the e-cigarette aerosol at the high voltage settings were unrealistic and under such conditions, a vaper would never be able to use the product. This is because the wattage being used was so high that the vaporizer was overheated (for a conventional e-cigarette it would likely damamge or burn the coils), creating a horrible taste which a vaper could not tolerate. Essentially, what this study demonstrates is that if you overheat a vaping system, it will produce high levels of formaldehyde. However, such conditions are not realistic, therefore, extrapolating from this study to a lifetime of vaping is meaningless.”
    Meaning that in order to achieve the voltage necessary to reach the levels of formaldehyde discovered in this study, you would have to overheat your atomizer, burn your coils, and then vape that repeatedly to be exposed.
    Now, it looks like we’re comparing a scientific study with just another vaper disputing the information, so I want to share one more source with you regarding the results of this study. Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos is a cardiologist, and has studied the effects of smoking on cardiac dysfunction since 2010, and performing research on e-cigs since 2011. Dr. Farsalinos has no relation to the e-cigarette or tobacco industry, making his research completely independent. Yesterday, January 21, 2015 Dr. Farsalinos published an article titled The Deception of Measuring Formaldehyde in E-Cigarette Aerosol . This is what he concluded:
    “There are many major issues in that study. The authors failed to realize that voltage levels provide no information about the thermal load of an e-cigarette device. As a result we do not know how many watts were applied to the atomizer. However, there is a way to approximate this, through the information provided about the liquid consumption per puff. Based on the information provided at 5.0v the energy was around 14-16 watts. That would be extremely high for most commercially-available atomizers. Thus it is more than obvious that once again the atomizer was overheated, which of course would result in very high levels of formaldehyde production. In fact, overheating results in an unpleasant taste that none can withstand. As a result, no vaper is ever using the e-cigarette at such conditions and, thus, will never be exposed to such levels of formaldehyde. The story published in New England Journal of Medicine is similar to finding carcinogens in an overcooked piece of meat that none can ever eat. Of course the findings are true, but none will be exposed to the levels found.”
    Basically, what Dr. Farsalinos is saying is that the atomizer in the e-cig used was overheated, which always causes formaldehyde from the combustion. Yet, vapers don’t sit and vape all day on an overheated and burnt coil. In fact, we can rarely get an actual hit off of one. The second we get that burnt taste we pull everything apart and replace the coil. Meaning, we would never be exposed to the formaldehyde discovered in this new study.
    Now that we know that, while it’s true that high levels of formaldehyde were found, it is not under standard vaping use and we can look at the bright side of this study. No formaldehyde at all was found when the atomizer was within it’s range of vaping ability. That means, this study just proved that there isn’t searchable traces of formaldehyde in our vape! This is a very good thing Vape Fans! It’s one more study showing that when you actually vape within the limits of your e-cig, there is one less chemical that you used to get from smoking, no longer being inhaled!
    In summary, while at first the study may seem to be indicating that there are extremely high levels of formaldehyde in our vape, closer inspection shows us quite the opposite. If you’re not vaping on an overheated atomizer and burnt coil, you aren’t inhaling any searchable levels of formaldehyde. I encourage each of you to look closely at the reality surrounding the information being given to you by the mainstream media, especially when it comes to e-cigarettes. As we’ve shown here, important information can at times get lost in translation, resulting in a completely different conclusion than that which would be reached with all of the information. Read and question everything to truly educate yourselves and find the truth. Until next time, let us know what you think of the information you’ve seen in the media, compared to what you have learned here.
    Vape on!
    Written By: Michelle Harnden

  31. #27
    Been vaping for almost 2 years now. Love it. You sacrifice a little in taste and texture, but that psychological attachment fades quickly. And the upshot of lower prices, can do it anywhere without stinking up the place, in the rain, with gloves on, a big drag casually when you need one rather than a whole cigarette in 10 minutes, way less stress on the lungs, among other things makes it a no-brainer.

    My setup is just ego-t batteries (5$ on oceanvapor.com last I checked) and CE4 compatible cartomizers (about $2). I've had same three batteries for over a year, and I use the cartridges up in about a month.

    Incognito tip: As your vaping gets chronic you'll likely want to vape everywhere. Theater, church, PTA meetings, job interviews, etc. While it doesn't stink the vapor is still visible and hangs in the air. To vape discreetly in these situations hold the drag in for 5 to 10 seconds and by the time you exhale the vapor will already have condensed in your lungs. You may need to adjust breath holding time depending on your equipment. (NOTE: my big complaint in these situations is that damn light that shows that the coil is working, so for this problem you need to be clever in using your grip to hide the light in dark places like a theater for instance)

    EDIT: Also, as far as juice goes I recommend something fruity that isn't "berry" related. I wouldn't go for tobacco flavored ones as the only reason you think you like that flavor is mostly psychological habit from analog addiction. You can start with a bottle of that but it isn't the same as a regular cig and you will tire of it fast. And the "berry" ones like strawberry, cherry, mixed berry, etc. taste very 'cough syrup'ish. I've settled on grape, apple, or watermelon.
    Last edited by wizardwatson; 01-27-2015 at 05:18 PM.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  32. #28
    //
    Last edited by specsaregood; 05-16-2016 at 09:33 PM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    We have a couple of provari's in our house and I like the metal aspire tank since I'm one that suffers from the habit of dropping stuff.

    I quit smoking using the gum years ago. Nowadays I vape a 6mg or less nicotine level whenever I get the old urge (eg: drinking nights). I only like the menthol flavors even though I never smoked menthol cigs. My wife quit using the ecigs. She makes her own juice primarily.

    I consider the ecigs as one of the greatest positive inventions in regards to public health in decades. Nowadays when Im out driving I never see people smoking cigs, but everyday I see people vaping in their cars. My fear is the states just will not abide, the tax loss much be enormous. eg: this is from the budget outlook for NJ (2014-2015)

    See that? They are already planning in their budget passing new taxes specifically targeting ecigs.
    Yeah, NC is one of 2 states that have already passed a tax on e-liquid; fortunately it's less than 95%. It's 12.5% plus 5¢ per mL. This was with Republican super-majorities in both chambers and a Republican governor....

  34. #30


    California Takes A Strong Stand Against E-Cigarettes

    ...

    New generations of young people will become nicotine addicts if the products remain largely unregulated, Chapman said. Last year, 17 percent of high school seniors reported using e-cigarettes, known as vaping, according to the report.

    "Without action, it is likely that California's more than two decades of progress to prevent and reduce traditional tobacco use will erode as e-cigarettes re-normalize smoking behavior," the report says.

    E-cigarettes heat liquid nicotine into inhalable vapor without the tar and other chemicals found in traditional cigarettes. A cartridge of nicotine can cost anywhere from $5 to $20 dollars and can be reused.

    California banned the sale of e-cigarettes to minors in 2010, but the report raises concerns about children consuming liquid nicotine with flavors such as cotton candy and gummy bear. Reports of children under 5 with e-cigarette poisoning jumped from seven in 2012 to 154 last year.

    The California report says e-cigarettes emit as many as 10 toxic chemicals, but advocates say there is no evidence those substances are released at dangerous levels.

    "Despite the health officer's false claims, there is ample evidence that vaping helps smokers quit and is far less hazardous than smoking," Gregory Conley, president of the e-cigarette advocacy group American Vaping Association, said in an email. "Smokers deserve truthful and accurate information about the relative risks of different nicotine products, not hype and conjecture based on cherry-picked reports."

    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is also proposing regulations that include warning labels and ingredient lists on e-cigarettes, although enactment could take years. California health officials are calling for restrictions on the marketing and sale of e-cigarettes and protections against accidental ingestion of liquid nicotine.

    A state senator introduced legislation this week that would regulate e-cigarettes as tobacco products and ban their use in public places such as hospitals, bars and schools. A similar bill was defeated last year over opposition from tobacco companies.

    Chapman, the health official, would not take a position on specific legislation, but said his department would be rolling out an e-cigarette awareness campaign with possible television and radio advertisements.

    E-cigarettes have become more visible as they grow in popularity and commercials for the products air in places where traditional cigarette ads have been banned. Businesses related to e-cigarettes, including vaping lounges, are rapidly popping up in cities across California.

    Geoff Braithwaite, co-owner of an Oakland store that sells liquid nicotine for e-cigarettes, said he understands the need to restrict vaping in public and prevent sales to minors. He says his customers are longtime smokers who should be able to get a nicotine buzz without the harshness of a regular cigarette.

    "Nicotine has all this stigma attached solely to the medium we used to use," Braithwaite said. "When you try to outright ban e-cigarettes, you're lumping in the solution with the problem."

    Other states, including Oklahoma, Tennessee and Arkansas, already have issued advisories cautioning the use of e-cigarettes. Legislatures have been exploring restrictions on e-cigarette marketing, adding childproof packaging requirements and imposing taxes to discourage use.

    "Health officials want to be proactive on this important public health issue," said Lisa Waddell, who leads community health and prevention at the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials. "The issue of real concern here is we really don't know everything that's in these products, and you are seeing the rise of the use of these products in our children as well as our adults."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6566418.html

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