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Thread: Horrible New Medical Guidelines for Fat Patients

  1. #1

    Horrible New Medical Guidelines for Fat Patients

    Wow. If the Medical Industrial Complex goes with this recommendation and takes my fat brother off of his bipolar medication, he'll end up dead PDQ.

    From Dances With Fat: Horrible New Medical Guidelines for Fat Patients
    http://wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.6302

    When reader Vivian asked me what I thought of a piece from Medscape called “New US Obesity Guidelines: Treat the Weight First” I geared myself up to read something terrible. I didn’t imagine just how horrible it would be.

    In the article Dr Caroline M Apovian discusses a paper, of which she was the lead author, that suggests guidelines about how to care for fat people who have actual health issues:

    The guidelines advise treating the weight first with lifestyle modification and medication and then managing the remaining comorbidities that have not responded to any weight loss, including hyperglycemia, hypertension, and dyslipidemia.
    She also recommends that if patients are taking medication that has a side effect of weight gain (including those for depression, epilepsy, and schizophrenia) including “insulin, sulfonylureas, thiazolidinediones, beta-blockers, or certain specific selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) like paroxetine” they should be tapered off of them – even if the medication is working for their health issue and even if the tapering process may cause unnecessary physical and mental health issues – and put them on “alternative agents that don’t increase weight.”

    So what these guidelines are actually saying is that only thin people should get evidence-based treatment for their health issues. But don’t worry, because according to Dr. Apovian, they’ve really got a handle on this whole weight loss thing:
    In the end, you’re going to give the best guess of which drug the patient should go on….If the patient doesn’t lose 5% of their weight in 12 weeks, stop the drug and try another. Unless you can really get a clear idea of what you think the patient is going to do best on, you’re going to be prescribing by trial and error….This is the question I get asked the most often. Unfortunately, the research isn’t there to help us beyond that.
    Oh yes, this definitely has the ring of good evidence-based medicine, and doesn’t sound at all like completely uncontrolled experimental medicine. Not to mention that weight loss drugs cause everything from uncontrolled anal seepage to addiction and death and all for a minimal weight loss (4.5 pounds in a year!) which their own studies show patients begin to regain almost immediately.
    [...]
    Dr Apovian serves on advisory boards for Amylin, Merck, Johnson & Johnson, Arena, Nutrisystem, Zafgen, Sanofi, Orexigen, and Enteromedics. She has received research funding from Lilly, Amylin, Aspire Bariatrics, GI Dynamics, Pfizer, Sanofi, Orexigen, MetaProteomics, and the Dr Robert C and Veronica Atkins Foundation.
    Hmmm, she’s on the advisory boards of companies that make weight loss drugs, and she’s written guidelines that recommend a massive increase in the use of weight loss drugs. That’s curious. I think that this is what happens when healthcare for profit and a cultural hatred of fat people collide. This is the real “war on obesity” they want us thin, but they don’t mind if we die, as long as we’re not fat and they stay rich.

    If these guidelines are adopted it means that fat people will have to fight even harder to get evidence-based medicine instead of “interventions” that are bought and paid for by diet companies. We’re going to have to wonder if our doctor is prescribing us a subpar medicine because they are following guidelines that tell them they should be more concerned about our body size than our actual health.

    We’ll have to worry that they are withholding treatment that a thin person would be offered, unless and until we are able to manipulate our body size to their satisfaction.


    Those who agree to take the diet drugs will have to worry that their ability to get actual healthcare rests on expensive, dangerous drugs with a poor track record that are being prescribed to them on a trial and error basis, and that 12 weeks from now when the drugs don’t work they will be prescribed a different expensive, dangerous drug, and again 12 weeks later, all while still being refused the evidence-based healthcare that they would have been prescribed 24 weeks ago if they were thin.
    You won't have to wonder or worry. You can count on it. More at the link.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    Wow. If the Medical Industrial Complex goes with this recommendation and takes my fat brother off of his bipolar medication, he'll end up dead PDQ.
    He won't get dead anywhere near as fast as people with hypoactive thyroids if they have to lose weight to get their Synthroid.

    Make the fat people thin or kill them trying. Yes, Virginia, there used to be a Santa Claus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  4. #3
    True that!

    I find it astonishing that this fascist broad is recommending that doctors take their diabetic patients off insulin!

    if patients are taking medication that has a side effect of weight gain (including those for depression, epilepsy, and schizophrenia) including “insulin, sulfonylureas, thiazolidinediones, beta-blockers, or certain specific selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) like paroxetine” they should be tapered off of them – even if the medication is working for their health issue and even if the tapering process may cause unnecessary physical and mental health issues – and put them on “alternative agents that don’t increase weight.”
    I'll be the first to say that most people can correct a variety of health issues with diet and lifestyle changes, but losing weight is more important than treating mental illness?! W.T.F.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  5. #4
    Diet has a LOT to do with mental illness. Check it out: http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/
    Her blog is not very user-friendly so you must dive into the archives. But it is full of reviews of studies that link various mental illnesses to diet.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  6. #5
    That's effed up. Still, "fat acceptance" is BS.
    I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!

    Andrew Jackson, 1834

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by willwash View Post
    That's effed up. Still, "fat acceptance" is BS.
    Are you denying the existence of overweight people, or denying them the right to fall off their diets?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He won't get dead anywhere near as fast as people with hypoactive thyroids if they have to lose weight to get their Synthroid.

    Make the fat people thin or kill them trying. Yes, Virginia, there used to be a Santa Claus.
    same for hyperactive thyroid and methamazole (tapazole) .. yeah yeah.. I know, most hyperactive thyroid patients are thin.. I'm just not one of them
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

  9. #8
    So, is this bit of cruel and unusual eugenics policy yet, or is this still in the trial balloon stage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Are you denying the existence of overweight people, or denying them the right to fall off their diets?
    He's just reserving the right to be openly mean to them. A right I certainly can't protest, now can I?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    Diet has a LOT to do with mental illness. Check it out: http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/
    Her blog is not very user-friendly so you must dive into the archives. But it is full of reviews of studies that link various mental illnesses to diet.
    Yes but is it just a form of self-medication? Are people unhappy because they're fat, or fat because they're unhappy?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    True that!

    I find it astonishing that this fascist broad is recommending that doctors take their diabetic patients off insulin!



    I'll be the first to say that most people can correct a variety of health issues with diet and lifestyle changes, but losing weight is more important than treating mental illness?! W.T.F.

    Yes, the rambling idiot squad will be along shortly to start insisting that anti-depression drugs don't work anyway, and the conversatio nwill go to hell right after that, but seriously..taking a suicidal patient off a drug that's working for him/her because of a weight issue? That's like taking chemo away from a cancer patient because of a risk of infection.

    The ruling elite are insane.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    I'll be the first to say that most people can correct a variety of health issues with diet and lifestyle changes, but losing weight is more important than treating mental illness?! W.T.F.
    Here is my concern: Most of the anti-psychotics/depressants and psychotropic drugs are causing the weight gain. Then you have to wonder how long a person has been on them? To yank them off these drugs is really bad--we'll see many, many people going off the deep end, causing harm to themselves and possibly other people. However, doctors have been prescribing these drugs like candy for years...so we have a conundrum now that they (Medical mafia) literally caused.

    References:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16389718
    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...n/faq-20058043
    http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...c-medications/
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/bu...sych.html?_r=0
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/arti...on-weight-gain
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  15. #13
    *double post*
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  16. #14
    a fat person on psych meds is what America stands for, dammit

  17. #15

  18. #16
    If your fat brother would go for a run every morning, the endorphins would do him more good than the psycho drugs.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Yes but is it just a form of self-medication? Are people unhappy because they're fat, or fat because they're unhappy?
    There is much more to the relationship between diet and mental illness than obesity. Stated idfferently, bad diet can cause mental health problems without also causing obesity. It might also be possible to have obesity without mental health problems - at least initially. But because obesity is associated with chronic inflammation and chronic inflammation is associated with mental illness, including dementia, then it is likely that in the long run (if they live that long) obesity will usually be associated with mental illness.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    He's just reserving the right to be openly mean to them. A right I certainly can't protest, now can I?
    It's a little more subtle than that. I don't want to be mean to them. I am, however, reserving the right not to be compelled to consider fat a virtue in any way.
    I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!

    Andrew Jackson, 1834

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by willwash View Post
    It's a little more subtle than that. I don't want to be mean to them. I am, however, reserving the right not to be compelled to consider fat a virtue in any way.
    Are you capable of considering weight to be something that not everyone can control? Are you capable of considering weight gain as a consequence of some medical condition like a haywire thyroid to not be a vice in any way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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