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Thread: Girl, five, dies from a strain of the flu she was vaccinated against

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You are not at all understanding the statistic. I posted a link to that thread so please go read it. The statistic is stating that the vaccine only works against 23% of the virus this year. That doesn't mean it will be 100% effective even against that 23%. Nor does that say anything about the risk of getting the flu from the attenuated virus.
    If the dose is 23% effective, it means that the odds of getting the flu is lower than if you do not get the vaccine.

    There is no risk of getting the flu from the attenuated flu virus.


    Can the nasal spray flu vaccine give you the flu?

    No. While the nasal spray flu vaccine does contain live viruses (unlike the flu shot), the viruses are attenuated (weakened) and cannot cause flu illness. The weakened viruses are cold-adapted, which means they are designed to only cause infection at the cooler temperatures found within the nose. The viruses cannot infect the lungs or other areas where warmer temperatures exist. Some children and young adults 2 years through 17 years of age have reported experiencing mild reactions after getting the nasal spray flu vaccine, including runny nose, nasal congestion or cough, chills, tiredness/weakness, sore throat and headache. Some adults 18 years through 49 years of age have reported runny nose or nasal congestion, cough, chills, tiredness/weakness, sore throat and headache. These side effects are mild and short-lasting, especially when compared to symptoms of influenza infection.



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And how much mercury do we "need" to be healthy? Oh that's right....none. Also Angela's fallacious claim that "everything is toxic" ignores the fact that if you take "too much" of water soluble vitamins you just piss them away anyway.
    The difference between ethyl and methyl mercury is the same difference between methyl and ethyl alcohol. Drinking rubbing alcohol can make you blind, and drinking a good scotch can make life a little better. The body processes the two substances very differently.

    But there is no mercury in most flu vaccines so if that is a concern, then people can request a mercury free vaccine even if it isn't a valid concern.

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And how much mercury do we "need" to be healthy? Oh that's right....none. Also Angela's fallacious claim that "everything is toxic" ignores the fact that if you take "too much" of water soluble vitamins you just piss them away anyway.
    It is not a fallacious claim, and i provided inks to prove that it is correct. If you have a link to prove I am wrong, I will happily look at it. But just saying I am wrong does not mean I am wrong.

    Hint: I am not wrong. Everything is toxic - it is the dose that makes the poison.

    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    Last edited by angelatc; 03-02-2015 at 09:39 AM.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    It is not a fallacious claim, and i provided inks to prove that it is correct. If you have a link to prove I am wrong, I will happily look at it. But just saying I am wrong does not mean I am wrong.

    Hint: I am not wrong. Everything is toxic - it is the dose that makes the poison.

    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    The dose makes the poison.
    Would the opposite then also be true? Everything is good for you. It's just a matter of the dose.

    BTW, this is the same argument the cigarette manufacturers made back when people were finding out that cigarettes were bad for you. "Everything's bad for you in big enough doses." Well, true, but that has nothing to do with whether we should smoke cigarettes or not, just like it really has nothing to do with mercury being in vaccines.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 03-02-2015 at 09:46 AM.
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  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    If the dose is 23% effective, it means that the odds of getting the flu is lower than if you do not get the vaccine.

    There is no risk of getting the flu from the attenuated flu virus.
    I still can't believe you think you're making a good case. If that's your argument, then I don't think anyone's going to argue with you because apparently we just have two completely different definitions of what "effective" means.
    I'm an adventurer, writer and bitcoin market analyst.

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  7. #126
    Was she vaccinated against vaccinations?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    Would the opposite then also be true? Everything is good for you. It's just a matter of the dose.

    BTW, this is the same argument the cigarette manufacturers made back when people were finding out that cigarettes were bad for you. "Everything's bad for you in big enough doses." Well, true, but that has nothing to do with whether we should smoke cigarettes or not, just like it really has nothing to do with mercury being in vaccines.
    She keeps on forgetting that children 0 to 6 years of age are scheduled to receive 49 doses of vaccines (toxins). Maybe an adult can handle that load but these children cannot. One in 68 US children has an autism spectrum disorder, a 30% increase from 1 in 88 just two years ago, according to a new report from the CDC and I think it is a combination of vaccines, toxic chemicals in the environment and malnourishment that are causing these numbers to rise.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    She keeps on forgetting that children 0 to 6 years of age are scheduled to receive 49 doses of vaccines (toxins).
    And you seem to keep forgetting we have patiently addressed this non-point over and over and over.

    Being DonnaY means being allowed to troll RPF endlessly, I guess.

    I think it is a combination of vaccines, toxic chemicals in the environment and malnourishment that are causing these numbers to rise.
    Too bad there's not a lick of evidence to support that theory.



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There is no risk of getting the flu from the attenuated flu virus.
    Sure. Now go tell that to Piers Morgan while trying to keep a straight face.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020

    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    Would the opposite then also be true? Everything is good for you.
    No, not at all. The opposite of toxic is not healthy or beneficial. The opposite of toxic is non-toxic. And that's dose dependent.

    There are a lot of things that are beneficial to our systems in small doses that are dangerous in big doses. Warfarin is a very effective coagulant, which is why it also made a good rat poison.

    It is the dose that makes the poison.
    Last edited by angelatc; 03-02-2015 at 10:45 AM.

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    Sure. Now go tell that to Piers Morgan while trying to keep a straight face.
    Is there a point in there somewhere? And is there any evidence to support it?

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    it really has nothing to do with mercury being in vaccines.
    This entire thread is not about mercury in vaccines. That's just a side issue. This thread was about a girl who died after getting a flu she was vaccinated against. Nothing to do with mercury.

  15. #133
    #1. LIVE VIRUSES

    A lot of effort has been put into dispelling the "myth" that you can get the flu from the flu vaccine. Little wonder such a myth exists though, when the listed side effects for the vaccine are exactly those listed for flu: runny or stuffed nose, headaches and muscle aches, sore throat, loss of appetite, chills and fever. It's not influenza, we're told, it just feels like it.

    But the flu vaccine does contain live flu viruses. According to an electronic Medicines Compendium printout , each vial of Fluenza Tetra vaccine mist contains 107 -- that's 10 million -- of each of four strains of reassorted live attenuated and "genetically modified organisms"—for each nostril. That's 80 million viruses (give or take) per dose, designed to replicate inside a child's nasal passages.

    These engineered viruses include H1N1 (swine flu), and three other strains that are based on what scientists admit to being best guesses for the most likely influenza viruses in circulation this year.

    Live viruses up our nasal passages are dangerous because they can lead to encephalitis or swelling of the brain which, while rare, can also kill and disable people, just like the rare worst case flu. They can also cross the blood brain barrier and lead to long term brain inflammation.

    True, we are exposed to airborne viruses and bacteria all the time and our immune systems generally conquer them, but this man-made solution is far more concentrated than anything we would expect to find naturally. To put it in perspective, in one 2011 study, Virginia Tech scientists sampled the air in doctors' offices, nurseries and airplanes and found an average 16,000 viruses suspended in each cubic meter of air -- enough virus, they concluded, to infect a person within an hour. But with the flu mist vaccine we'd be instantly bathing a child's nasal passages in thousands times this concentration. Couldn't it overwhelm some children's immune systems? And can't the children spread these viruses?

    It turns out that most people do shed live flu vaccine viruses up to 11 days post nasal vaccination. And the younger they are, the more they spread it. At least one documented case of transmission was observed in a clinical trial in which an unvaccinated daycare worker was infected with a virus from a vaccinated child.

    We know viruses mutate, just like bacteria that develop antibiotic resistance, so why are public health officials so confident these viruses will never revert to the wild-type infectious virus or perhaps to something more virulent?

    And why has the public health campaign got such mixed messages? Flu deaths are very rare among healthy children (less than two in a million healthy children died during the 2009 swine flu "pandemic " according to a Lancet study) so the UK's National Health Services (NHS) Choices has pitched the vaccine as an agent to protect the elderly and sick. It even says it could prevent 2,000 deaths this way. But at the same time government pamphlets like this one warn that "children who have been vaccinated should avoid close contact with people with severely weakened immune systems for around two weeks after being vaccinated" and vaccine experts have warned that children "may have to stay away from elderly relatives for a few days after vaccination."

    Take away point: To avoid illness, avoid weird viruses.
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/6-r...al-flu-vaccine
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  16. #134
    Once again, an opinion piece backed up by no facts. She ignored the request for actual facts about her last assertion, and just posts something else entirely unrelated to that discussion.

    This is trolling.

  17. #135

    My, my, Angela. That certainly was an unfriendly and--uh--strongly worded - rep from you. I never took you as a troll, so are you just bitter?

    You never bother to debate me any more. That's a shame. The basis of your beef with me this round? It's that I did not provide "links" to back up my logic lost on lazy Americans who want even more government for their health. Should my links be like the "evidence" you provide? Here's your links from above:


    1. Puff the Mutant Dragon
    Adventures in science


    2. A "blog" from a site called "The Conspiracy Factory."


    3. And, of course, that ever present source of authoritative knowledge, "wikipedia."



    The only authoritative and professional source you omitted in that list is your own "blog." Surely, a science and logic professional of your stature has penned voluminous material.
    Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 03-02-2015 at 11:52 AM.

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    ? It's that I did not provide "links" to back up my logic lost on lazy Americans who want even more government for their health. Should my links be like the "evidence" you provide? Here's your links from above:


    1. Puff the Mutant Dragon
    Adventures in science
    2. A "blog" from a site called "The Conspiracy Factory."
    3. And, of course, that ever present source of authoritative knowledge, "wikipedia."

    .


    The source of information does not negate the accuracy. If you have any sources to disprove any of the statements in the those sites (and the cites therein) then post it. That's how debate works.

    I posted a link indicating my assertion that getting the vaccine reduces the odds of getting the flu. You responded, "No it doesn't." Do you have a source for that?

    You mentioned something that implied there were outbreaks of shingles in elementary school children. Do you have a link for that?

    You stated that the definition of toxic as it refers to the science of toxicology is wrong. Do you have a source for that?

    You said that the flu shot does not protect against the flu. Do you have a source for that?
    Last edited by angelatc; 03-02-2015 at 12:23 PM.



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I posted a link indicating my assertion that getting the vaccine reduces the odds of getting the flu. You responded, "No it doesn't." Do you have a source for that?
    You did not show that. Your assertion was not proven.


    You mentioned something that implied there were outbreaks of shingles in elementary school children. Do you have a link for that?
    Wasn't me. And maybe using the word "imply" is not a good idea when you post things.

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    You stated that the definition of toxic as it refers to the science of toxicology is wrong. Do you have a source for that?

    I'll have to get back to you on that. The website www.Puff_the_Magic_Dragon.com is not working right now.

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    You did not show that. Your assertion was not proven.
    Because you say so? You have contributed nothing but your opinion to this thread so far.

    They also don't factor in the period right after the flu shot. That's the exact time people get sick.
    - Got a source for that?

  23. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I'll have to get back to you on that.
    So that's a no. At this point I can only assume you are, in fact, just a wanna-be bully who is not really interested in debate.
    Last edited by angelatc; 03-02-2015 at 12:28 PM.

  24. #141
    Live Flu Vaccines Increase Infectious Bacteria Counts 100-Fold in Mice

    By: Sayer Ji, Founder

    If presumably safer "attenuated" flu vaccines are supposed to protect against influenza and its sometimes deadly complications, then why do vaccinated mice have up to 100-fold higher levels of flu-associated pathogenic bacteria than non-vaccinated mice?

    A concerning new study published in mBio, an open access journal of the American Society of Microbiology, titled, "Live Attenuated Influenza Vaccine Enhances Colonization of Streptococcus pneumoniae and Staphylococcus aureus in Mice," reveals that live attenuated influenza vaccines (LAIVs) lead to the rapid and sustained overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria in the upper respiratory tract of mice at colonization densities up to 100-fold higher than non-vaccinated mice.

    This is the first study of its kind to demonstrate that vaccination with a live attenuated viral vaccine can dramatically alter the colonization behavior of human bacterial pathogens in a manner very similar to that following infection from 'wild-type', i.e. naturally circulating, flu infections.

    Influenza infection is well known to contribute to serious health complications, but this is the first time that a vaccine strain of flu has been found to induce similar alterations in disease-linked bacteria.

    Continued...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    You said that the flu shot does not protect against the flu. Do you have a source for that?
    You said that it does, but you never proved it. Might as well say that wiping your ass good makes you a better driver.

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    - Got a source for that?
    No sorry, the wiki-loser site is down, too.

  27. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    You said that it does, but you never proved it.
    I cited the CDC statistics that stated that the flu vaccine was 23% effective this year. Therefore, getting the flu shot reduces the odds of getting the flu. MR DonnaY posted another quote from something else I linked to that reiterated it.



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Because you say so? You have contributed nothing but your opinion to this thread so far.

    You've tried to assert things without proof. Thanks, but I'll trust what I know over your Puff the Magic the Dragon blog sources any time.

  30. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    No sorry.
    There's a reason for that.

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I'll have to get back to you on that. The website www.Puff_the_Magic_Dragon.com is not working right now.

    Here it's back up: https://puffthemutantdragon.wordpres...-kombucha-tea/

    It definitely is worth reading, if you want a laugh.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  32. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I cited the CDC statistics that stated that the flu vaccine was 23% effective this year. Therefore, getting the flu shot reduces the odds of getting the flu.

    Therefore does not logically follow.

  33. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    You've tried to assert things without proof. .
    Now you are resorting to lying.

  34. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    Therefore does not logically follow.
    Got a link for that?

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