You are already an anarchist - with Larken Rose .

[RonPaulIsGreat]

God gave us free will, that's it.

[PaulConventionWV]

God gave us free will, that's it.

I'm not so sure about that. But that's another debate.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Yeah, fine. I gave you my definition. They both seem pretty valid. I'm not arguing about that anymore.



Either your English is all messed up or you do not live in reality because I guarantee that the authority of the state, whether legitimate or not, has an effect on us. That's what I mean when I say we are "subject" to it. We have to obey... or else. You can't just act like the state doesn't exist and it will go away. It exists and it will catch you if you step out of line. We can't just ignore the authority of the state, no matter what you think of their authority.

My question is, what do you deign to accomplish by convincing people that there is really no such thing as this "fiction" called the state? What vital point of yours hinges on the idea that the state is not real?

So you still claim that "the state" is a real entity? That's fine if you want to believe in it. Maybe you can help me to find "the state" because I can't. I know what "the state" is not. It is not a capitol building. That's just a building. It's not a "president", that's just a man. It's not a "constitution", that's just a piece of paper with words written on it.

What you are doing (and it's so common almost everyone does it) is mistaking a gang of men with guns willing to kill you for "authority". The gang of men do not represent "authority" or "the state". They represent an idea. The idea is that some magical piece of paper has granted them the power to do things that all of us KNOW are wrong to do (you know-things like stealing and kidnapping and murdering).

A child believes that "Santa" is real. If you try to tell them he is just an idea, they will reject you. You are still believing in the "Santa" of grown ups - "government"...

[heavenlyboy34]

So you still claim that "the state" is a real entity? That's fine if you want to believe in it. Maybe you can help me to find "the state" because I can't. I know what "the state" is not. It is not a capitol building. That's just a building. It's not a "president", that's just a man. It's not a "constitution", that's just a piece of paper with words written on it.

What you are doing (and it's so common almost everyone does it) is mistaking a gang of men with guns willing to kill you for "authority". The gang of men do not represent "authority" or "the state". They represent an idea. The idea is that some magical piece of paper has granted them the power to do things that all of us KNOW are wrong to do (you know-things like stealing and kidnapping and murdering).

A child believes that "Santa" is real. If you try to tell them he is just an idea, they will reject you. You are still believing in the "Santa" of grown ups - "government"...

This is a really good point! ^^ The only reason anyone bothers to concern themselves with what the federal and state constitutions say is because men with guns will kidnap and/or kill Unbelievers. The Constitution as we know it was a coup and power grab anyway. Were it not for the War Between The States, I reckon a number of people and territories would have told Uncle Sam to piss up a rope and seceded long ago.

[otherone]

So you still claim that "the state" is a real entity?

Nah...that's not what he's saying. What he's saying is whether it's fictional or not, your dog is still gonna be shot.

[PaulConventionWV]

So you still claim that "the state" is a real entity? That's fine if you want to believe in it. Maybe you can help me to find "the state" because I can't. I know what "the state" is not. It is not a capitol building. That's just a building. It's not a "president", that's just a man. It's not a "constitution", that's just a piece of paper with words written on it.

What you are doing (and it's so common almost everyone does it) is mistaking a gang of men with guns willing to kill you for "authority". The gang of men do not represent "authority" or "the state". They represent an idea. The idea is that some magical piece of paper has granted them the power to do things that all of us KNOW are wrong to do (you know-things like stealing and kidnapping and murdering).

A child believes that "Santa" is real. If you try to tell them he is just an idea, they will reject you. You are still believing in the "Santa" of grown ups - "government"...

Go smoke pot in public. Don't worry, you don't have to find the state because the state will find you. The state IS the enforcement class that holds it up. It depends on it, and yes, it really does exist. Don't believe me? Go drive cross country going 100mph+ the whole way. See what happens.

I don't know why you insist on calling it a fiction because we still can't successfully defy it. That's why I called it semantics, originally. I really don't know what point you think you're making by calling it a fiction because you still can't disregard its authority whether that authority is legitimate or not. I don't know why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

[PaulConventionWV]

This is a really good point! ^^ The only reason anyone bothers to concern themselves with what the federal and state constitutions say is because men with guns will kidnap and/or kill Unbelievers. The Constitution as we know it was a coup and power grab anyway. Were it not for the War Between The States, I reckon a number of people and territories would have told Uncle Sam to piss up a rope and seceded long ago.

What does it matter what reason people concern themselves with it? You still can't freely defy it.

[PaulConventionWV]

Nah...that's not what he's saying. What he's saying is whether it's fictional or not, your dog is still gonna be shot.

Yep. I don't know why he can't seem to understand this.

[heavenlyboy34]

What does it matter what reason people concern themselves with it? You still can't freely defy it.

Just engaging in casual conversation ATM.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Go smoke pot in public. Don't worry, you don't have to find the state because the state will find you. The state IS the enforcement class that holds it up. It depends on it, and yes, it really does exist. Don't believe me? Go drive cross country going 100mph+ the whole way. See what happens.

I don't know why you insist on calling it a fiction because we still can't successfully defy it. That's why I called it semantics, originally. I really don't know what point you think you're making by calling it a fiction because you still can't disregard its authority whether that authority is legitimate or not. I don't know why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

There you go again trying to claim that "authority" can be illegitimate. I thought we already chased that dog to death...

[Ronin Truth]

In actuality, you can do just about anything you want to do. Just be ready, willing and able to keep a low enough profile about it and stay beneath the detection systems.

[DamianTV]

[PaulConventionWV]

There you go again trying to claim that "authority" can be illegitimate. I thought we already chased that dog to death...

Dude seriously wtf. You're the one dragging this in circles. I never claimed anything of the sort.

[P3ter_Griffin]

That's fine... Maybe I'm wrong... Show me where ANY "government" has legitimate "authority" and then you will have proved that somewhere there exists a real "government". Lacking authority, there can be no such thing as a government (or is that statement itself wrong?). Do you have an example of real "authority" for me??

I do not think you are wrong at all. I believe anarchy is inherent to life, it is not a political state we can obtain, it is just a description of free choice regardless of what the consequences are. Opponents of 'anarchism' will often point to 'gangs and such that would replace the coercive control of government', not realizing (or maybe they do) that they are doing just that to us, appointing a gang to coerce us that is. So what makes our situation different is that the coercion takes place with the approval of the majority of our fellow citizens, which obviously complicates preserving our rights, but we still have the free choice to preserve them the best we can just the same as if we had no government and some hoodlum was trying to rob us.

[ChristianAnarchist]

In actuality, you can do just about anything you want to do. Just be ready, willing and able to keep a low enough profile about it and stay beneath the detection systems.

Right, and I do exactly that. The only time I stop for "stop signs" is either when it's dangerous to proceed without stopping or if one of the goons are nearby to write me one of their extortion papers...

Other laws I treat exactly the same. If I can violate them without some goon causing me pain, I do so...